Arrow

[KabutoRyder]

Dinah's Canary > Laurel's Canary in every way, shape and form possible.

This dick recruits thing, mostly Rene is getting really old fast. Like, guys, you are out on your own, like you wanted, STFU, stop being dicks. It ain't helping.

[AnakinFlair]

Anybody else starting to get the feeling that Cayden James ISN'T the big bad of the season? I mean, the promo for next week says he's going to set off his bomb, and that would have to mean that Oliver & Co. have to stop him. So maybe they wrap up James by 3x14, then the TRUE Big Bad reveals themselves as being behind everything, all the while Oliver's trial finally starts.

If that's the case, I'd love it if Amanda Waller was behind everything. "Surprise, bitches! I'm not dead!"

[Jackalope89]

Anybody else starting to get the feeling that Cayden James ISN'T the big bad of the season? I mean, the promo for next week says he's going to set off his bomb, and that would have to mean that Oliver & Co. have to stop him. So maybe they wrap up James by 3x14, then the TRUE Big Bad reveals themselves as being behind everything, all the while Oliver's trial finally starts.

If that's the case, I'd love it if Amanda Waller was behind everything. "Surprise, bitches! I'm not dead!"

Or the Demon's Head himself.
He's dead, you say?
He got better.

[Guy1]

Anybody else starting to get the feeling that Cayden James ISN'T the big bad of the season? I mean, the promo for next week says he's going to set off his bomb, and that would have to mean that Oliver & Co. have to stop him. So maybe they wrap up James by 3x14, then the TRUE Big Bad reveals themselves as being behind everything, all the while Oliver's trial finally starts.

[AnakinFlair]

[Guy1]

I kinda miss when Vigilante was just a nutty guy out to kill criminals .

[Jim Kelly]

Were they trying to tell us something with the "all for nothing" title? Because you could skip this episode and be okay, as nothing really happens. Except a character gets taken out--a character that has never been that interesting and could come back anyway, because we saw this guy explode into millions of pieces and somehow come back before.

The question I keep asking is why is anyone helping the Michael Emerson character? We know why he's trying to destroy the city and everyone in it--because he's an idiot who is supposed to be a genius but has giant blind spots for certain bits of technology. But what is in it for any of the other baddies? What do they get out of destroying everyone--unless they're absolutely horrible people who don't care about anyone even themselves. I don't see the motivation.

I know that Russian guy has something to prove to the Bratva, but I don't see that this is getting him anywhere. And now that I think about it, the best villain for this season would have been Vladimir Putin. They could pull it off, because Putin has no friends--it's not like the CW is going to get in trouble for besmirching his good name. I can see Putin wanting to destroy an American city just to undermine the USA and manipulate world politics while also making money for the Russian oligarchs. And if Russian guy is working for Putin, that makes sense. Hilter was a villain in a lot of comics and movies during WW II and Putin is close to being Hitler now.

[KabutoRyder]

Anybody else starting to get the feeling that Cayden James ISN'T the big bad of the season? I mean, the promo for next week says he's going to set off his bomb, and that would have to mean that Oliver & Co. have to stop him. So maybe they wrap up James by 3x14, then the TRUE Big Bad reveals themselves as being behind everything, all the while Oliver's trial finally starts.

If that's the case, I'd love it if Amanda Waller was behind everything. "Surprise, bitches! I'm not dead!"

Well yeah, we got that the moment we learned James was duped into thinking Oliver offed his kid. And, assuming you didn't read it,

Nyssa is on her way back and from the description of her role, I theorize that she will reveal the big bad.


BTW, I searched high and low for the how to on spoiler tagging text on this board and couldn't find it.

[AnakinFlair]

The question I keep asking is why is anyone helping the Michael Emerson character? We know why he's trying to destroy the city and everyone in it--because he's an idiot who is supposed to be a genius but has giant blind spots for certain bits of technology. But what is in it for any of the other baddies? What do they get out of destroying everyone--unless they're absolutely horrible people who don't care about anyone even themselves. I don't see the motivation.

Ding Ding! You are absolutely right! There is no reason why Anatoli should be helping James, unless all that money that Oliver is wiring to James is going to Anatoli instead. It was shown in the first few episodes that Anatoli needs cash fast, so that would be the only reason why he'd help. Black Siren- well, she seems to feel indebted to men who save her, but given how she reacted last night to killing Vince (she REALLY wasn't in to it), I'm pulling for my Waller reveal so we'll find out that Siren has a bomb in her head. And I don't even remember who the others were.

You know who SHOULD be helping Cayden James? Lonnie Machin. Anarky would be the PERFECT partner for James to be working with, and it would give Thea a reason to get back into fighting shape.

[AnakinFlair]

Well yeah, we got that the moment we learned James was duped into thinking Oliver offed his kid. And, assuming you didn't read it,

Nyssa is on her way back and from the description of her role, I theorize that she will reveal the big bad.


BTW, I searched high and low for the how to on spoiler tagging text on this board and couldn't find it.

Yeah, I read that. And I suppose the puppet master could be Talia. I mean, they are repeating so many beats from Season 5 already, why NOT make Talia a shadow Big Bad who is still trying to avenge her father?

[Osiris-Rex]

Were they trying to tell us something with the "all for nothing" title? Because you could skip this episode and be okay, as nothing really happens. Except a character gets taken out--a character that has never been that interesting and could come back anyway, because we saw this guy explode into millions of pieces and somehow come back before.

I took it to mean after everything they did, using Vigilante as a mole, getting Vigilante to hack the computer, finding where the bomb was, that all of that accomplished nothing, the bomb is still out there, so Vigilante died for nothing.

The question I keep asking is why is anyone helping the Michael Emerson character? We know why he's trying to destroy the city and everyone in it--because he's an idiot who is supposed to be a genius but has giant blind spots for certain bits of technology. But what is in it for any of the other baddies? What do they get out of destroying everyone--unless they're absolutely horrible people who don't care about anyone even themselves. I don't see the motivation.

I asked the same question on the Black Lightning thread in regards to Tobias Whale. Why would a henchman work for someone that treated them like crap? Is the money that good?

[Jim Kelly]

On BLACK LIGHTNING it makes sense to me, because there's a pecking order and it's true to what we see in the real world. But this is different, because all of the main figures are alphas, they don't serve anyone--or shouldn't. So that's why I can't see them serving Ben Gale. They might work with him, if it's in their best interest, but they aren't going to let this pipqueak order them around, unless there's some hold he has over them. But I don't know what that is.

Their lives are at too much risk staying by Michael Emerson's side. There are so many ways to die--either by a friend or a foe or just misadventure. Nor do I understand why they remain in Star City, other than for reasons of plot. This super-hacker shouldn't need to be in the city to pull the strings. They have minions who can do the grunt work. The city is in a state of chaos--regular services are out of order. Do the higher ups really need to be there moving around a bomb that can level the whole city? They shouldn't be putting themselves in that danger.

But if these big bosses are so impotent, then they aren't that interesting as characters. Black Siren, Richard Dragon, Anotoli all look weak--and not what I imagined them to be.

[AnakinFlair]

On BLACK LIGHTNING it makes sense to me, because there's a pecking order and it's true to what we see in the real world. But this is different, because all of the main figures are alphas, they don't serve anyone--or shouldn't. So that's why I can't see them serving Ben Gale. They might work with him, if it's in their best interest, but they aren't going to let this pipqueak order them around, unless there's some hold he has over them. But I don't know what that is.

Their lives are at too much risk staying by Michael Emerson's side. There are so many ways to die--either by a friend or a foe or just misadventure. Nor do I understand why they remain in Star City, other than for reasons of plot. This super-hacker shouldn't need to be in the city to pull the strings. They have minions who can do the grunt work. The city is in a state of chaos--regular services are out of order. Do the higher ups really need to be there moving around a bomb that can level the whole city? They shouldn't be putting themselves in that danger.

But if these big bosses are so impotent, then they aren't that interesting as characters. Black Siren, Richard Dragon, Anotoli all look weak--and not what I imagined them to be.

God, I just realized how much this is ripping off The Dark Knight Rises. Glad I caught up with the rest of the class

I agree about the impotence. I couldn't give two sh**s about Richard Dragon- I know he's big in the comics, but he's been nothing special on the show. The one's I'm most upset about are Black Siren and Anatoli. If you are going to bring in Anatoli as a villain, make HIM the big bad. He shouldn't be second fiddle, and he shouldn't be playing the muscle to a hacker. As for Black Siren, when she first appeared she was billed as the General of Zoom's army. She was a commander, she led other Meta's into battle. She was powerful enough to level buildings with her cry. And yet, ONCE AGAIN they have her as a lackey for a man. Like she couldn't liquefy James' brain if she wanted to. And I'm sure before the end of the season, she'll be working for another man after James is taken care of. It should have been her or Anatoli as the season's big bad, and if you bring in Cayden James, you make him the B villain working for THEM that Felicity has to face.

Side note- why excatly didn't Dinah use her cry to either blow that beam off of her, or to take out Cayden James and Black Siren? Sure she was pinned, but she could still breathe.

[Frontier]

Did they really bring back Singh's actor for a one-minute cameo on another show? At least it indicated that he's a stickler for anyone who's late to a meeting, so it's not just Barry .

And, judging by the timeline, Singh had a beard (flashback), shaved it off for a year (Flash season 1), and then grew it back (all subsequent appearances).

Seriously, where does Rene come off acting so ticked at Oliver all the time? Are we just forgetting that he's still testifying against Oliver for the case against him ?

Vince sounded so unconvincing spouting that technobabble that I'm not surprised Cayden found him out.

Quentin presenting a shrine of Laurel to Black Siren...actually came off kind of creepy. Like, I get that you see some of your daughter and her goodness in her Earth-2 counterpart, but I'm not sure trying to force her to be someone she's not by shoving her Earth-1 counterpart in her face is really the best idea.

Now that I think about it, we still don't know what happened to Earth-2 Sara, do we? If there even was an Earth-2 Sara...

I think that's the first time Black Siren has ever seemed resistant to killing someone. She also seemed to genuinely feel bad about what she'd done. I'm not sure if that means redemption is still on the table for her after everything she's done, and her rivalry with Dinah is now more personal than it ever was, but it certainly seems like she's having more second-thoughts about her current path.

I guess we now know that even a Healing Factor can't accommodate a Canary Cry at full-blast into someone's head.

So...Oliver totally made the right call, right? The lure with Vince was a trap setup by James that the New Team Arrow fell for while Team Arrow failed to nab the bomb because they didn't have the man-power to cover the whole building. Dinah seems to think they would've been able to save Vince if everyone had gone to save him but the only reason he was in the situation that killed him was because Dinah and co. rushed in to save him.

I'm guessing Dinah going off the rails because of Vince's death is going to lead to the disbanding of New Team Arrow, and probably cause some havoc on her relationship with Quentin given he'll probably have complicated feelings towards her mission to kill Black Siren.

It's becoming more and more clear that someone is manipulating Cayden to take Oliver out or re-direct Ollie's attention, and the doctored photo that outed his identity and the video of Green Arrow killing Cayden's son was all a means of directing Cayden toward attacking Oliver. The team seems to think it's someone in Cayden's inner circle (Anatoly?) but Talia would probably have the means and the motive to set something like this in motion.

Side note- why excatly didn't Dinah use her cry to either blow that beam off of her, or to take out Cayden James and Black Siren? Sure she was pinned, but she could still breathe.

I was asking the exact same question .

[90'sCartoonMan]

Well, I guess now we know where Vince's loyalty really was! It was unlikely he would've been able to keep up the charade very long, though. Cayden James did point out how strange it was that he'd join with him given Vigilante's motivations, so the minute things start going wrong, Vince would be the first person to suspect. I'm still wondering why James was so convinced about that poorly edited and unverified video of his son's death. Maybe that's what the "All For Nothing" title was actually referring to.

The thing I don't get was Rene and Dinah not wanting to be in the Arrowcave because of "PTSD" or whatever and saying they were going to leave, but then they never actually left. Still, I really believed Dinah's despair at the end, and I'm looking forward to seeing how her vendetta plays out.

I know that Russian guy has something to prove to the Bratva, but I don't see that this is getting him anywhere. And now that I think about it, the best villain for this season would have been Vladimir Putin. They could pull it off, because Putin has no friends--it's not like the CW is going to get in trouble for besmirching his good name. I can see Putin wanting to destroy an American city just to undermine the USA and manipulate world politics while also making money for the Russian oligarchs. And if Russian guy is working for Putin, that makes sense. Hilter was a villain in a lot of comics and movies during WW II and Putin is close to being Hitler now.

Well, using Putin would date this show just as badly as the Trump jabs do for all the CW shows, and while Hitler is a comic book staple, DC does have a history of using thinly veiled fictional countries like Qurac, Bialya, or Santa Prisca rather than show their real world counterparts. Also, would you actually have them take down Putin for good?

I agree about the impotence. I couldn't give two sh**s about Richard Dragon- I know he's big in the comics, but he's been nothing special on the show. The one's I'm most upset about are Black Siren and Anatoli. If you are going to bring in Anatoli as a villain, make HIM the big bad. He shouldn't be second fiddle, and he shouldn't be playing the muscle to a hacker. As for Black Siren, when she first appeared she was billed as the General of Zoom's army. She was a commander, she led other Meta's into battle. She was powerful enough to level buildings with her cry. And yet, ONCE AGAIN they have her as a lackey for a man. Like she couldn't liquefy James' brain if she wanted to. And I'm sure before the end of the season, she'll be working for another man after James is taken care of. It should have been her or Anatoli as the season's big bad, and if you bring in Cayden James, you make him the B villain working for THEM that Felicity has to face.

I wonder if these villains would've been more effective and threatening if there wasn't one specific leader calling the shots every episode? For example, we could've had Anatoli be the one to bring intel about Team Arrow and their secrets rather than have Cayden James as the mastermind. Richard Dragon should be the Spartan of the team, so have an episode that really parallels him and Diggle while he has some sort of plot against Star City that comes close to working. As for Black Siren, guessing she's there to give Lance a personal stake in it.

Quentin presenting a shrine of Laurel to Black Siren...actually came off kind of creepy. Like, I get that you see some of your daughter and her goodness in her Earth-2 counterpart, but I'm not sure trying to force her to be someone she's not by shoving her Earth-1 counterpart in her face is really the best idea.

I feel like Quentin still doesn't get the idea that this is a completely different person who lead a completely different life and he still thinks his Laurel is "in there somewhere". I liked how the projection of our Laurel showed up on Siren's face and her freakout. I doubt Black Siren can be redeemed, she's killed too many people at this point, but it's possible she'll die saving Quentin.

So...Oliver totally made the right call, right? The lure with Vince was a trap setup by James that the New Team Arrow fell for while Team Arrow failed to nab the bomb because they didn't have the man-power to cover the whole building. Dinah seems to think they would've been able to save Vince if everyone had gone to save him but the only reason he was in the situation that killed him was because Dinah and co. rushed in to save him.

I think the only WRONG call was splitting up the team. If everyone went with Oliver, they probably would've been able to reach the bomb. It's also entirely possible that if everyone went to save Vince, he'd be saved. However, Vince was aware that he could've been killed and thought his life was worth locating the bomb, so going after him was the wrong thing to do.