Arrow

[Martini Sigil]

The B team storyline is abysmal...lol... This show never got Black Canary right... Rene and his hockey mask are laughable... and i love Echo Kellum, but he looks ridiculous in his costume... he is a world class nerd, and rather than have him be the Cisco to Felicity's Caitlyn... or Fitz to F's Simmons... they flatten his hair and grease paint his face and have him awkwardly take on trained killers... ugh... The reason Katie Cassidy never worked as Canary was simply because she isn't athletic enough... she had the look... but not the chops.

[Kirby101]

What was with Laurel at the end? Just her trying to get out of town? What was that about 2 years? Is she going to pretend she is the real Laurel?

[donpricetag]

I'm looking forward to a crushing B team victory once Oliver and friends lose their plot armor for a couple episodes. I don't care for for this arc very much, but I care even less for Oliver and friends being such worthless hypocrites. They started the episode's conflict by invading another team's base, threatening them, tear gassing them, then threatening them some more. Fun.

Oliver kills people when he hates them. Full stop. He just recently killed an evil doppleganger of himself. His warning Dinah that she was "crossing a line" is hogwash. Muddled, self-serving, situational ethics at their finest. His anger at Renee for betraying his trust while simultaneously violating Curtis, Renee, and Dinah's privacy is byronic in its complete lack of self-examination. He'll praise Felicity for nuking a small town, sacrificing thousands of lives to protect millions of Star city residents, because "she made a tough call", yet harangue Renee for choosing being with his daughter over protecting Oliver's secrets. It is NONSENSE. But you can't just blame the writing, because it's in keeping with Oliver's character. At this point, he's nothing but a wearisome antihero with plot armor who chooses to surround himself with enablers.

The real crux of the episode was Dinah realizing she didn't need to kill Siren. That was an actual heroic moment, that proved she was a cut above the likes of Oliver. She spared the woman who murdered the person she loved. Comparatively, Oliver killed Damian Darhk as soon as he was able to. Pffffft.

How is what Dinah did heroic? The whole point of the B team pushing so hard was because they said team Arrow wouldn't get the money from Blk Siren and they would be via torture. But the first time Dinah is left alone with Siren she 100% commits to killing her and has to be talked down. It contradicts everything.

As for Team Arrow getting into the bunker... Renee betrayed the whole team to get custody of his daughter. Then went off mission. Team B throws a fit and leaves because they don't feel "equal" (well... They aren't). Once they left they we're just a single level better than the Vigilante (Vince). They we're loose guns more often than not getting in the way. They aren't the city's heroes... And they're freaking annoying and whiny.

Renee came at Oliver with an AXE. He deserved a kick to the sternum.

[Immortal Weapon]

Guess I'm odd man out as I'm on the side of the b-team. OG Arrow is too rooted in hypocrisy for my liking and keep repeating the same mistakes.

[KabutoRyder]

Really wish this episode was Rene's send off, but I doubt it is. Can't stand that fucker. Dinah I'm fine with, Curtis is getting some backbone, cool. Rene can't take a long walk off a short peer fast enough for my tastes.

[Jim Kelly]

What was with Laurel at the end? Just her trying to get out of town? What was that about 2 years? Is she going to pretend she is the real Laurel?

I just couldn't track what was happening there. Since she was bleeding from the gut just like Earth-1 Laurel, I thought maybe she was supposed to be the real Laurel. I'm confused.

They flushed all the Terrrific Trio down the toilet. Dinah went first, then they tried to flush Rene but the toilet backed up, so they re-flushed and sent Curtis down after him.

A lot depended on feeling Dinah's pain over Vince. And if they had established that Vince really mattered, maybe it would have worked. But he was not worth anyone's tears. So Dinah just comes off as stupid, willing to throw everything away for no good purpose.

Curtis had a chance of redeeming himself, but his actions in this episode make him just as bad as the other two.

It's funny that Felicity was in the middle of the fight, while Thea got out of there. By any logic, Thea should have been fighting, but I guess they don't have a stunt person to do her scenes.

[KabutoRyder]

I just couldn't track what was happening there. Since she was bleeding from the gut just like Earth-1 Laurel, I thought maybe she was supposed to be the real Laurel. I'm confused.

They flushed all the Terrrific Trio down the toilet. Dinah went first, then they tried to flush Rene but the toilet backed up, so they re-flushed and sent Curtis down after him.

A lot depended on feeling Dinah's pain over Vince. And if they had established that Vince really mattered, maybe it would have worked. But he was not worth anyone's tears. So Dinah just comes off as stupid, willing to throw everything away for no good purpose.

Curtis had a chance of redeeming himself, but his actions in this episode make him just as bad as the other two.

It's funny that Felicity was in the middle of the fight, while Thea got out of there. By any logic, Thea should have been fighting, but I guess they don't have a stunt person to do her scenes.

Also Thea said when she first came back she wasn't ready for suit action. And I think she really meant she was done done (of course before next week and Roy coming back) so I think, while, yea, she could have jumped in and brought the hurt, to her, she is really done with the craziness and she isn't on board with them fighting each other anyway so why would she jump in and pick a side. Now if Ollie was getting stomped by Rene, I think she'd step in some kinda way.

[The Darknight Detective]

Guess I'm odd man out as I'm on the side of the b-team. OG Arrow is too rooted in hypocrisy for my liking and keep repeating the same mistakes.

The B team is the one saddled with the hypocrisy. Everything they have complained about regarding Ollie they have done and then some since they left.

[Anarchist]

Guess I'm odd man out as I'm on the side of the b-team. OG Arrow is too rooted in hypocrisy for my liking and keep repeating the same mistakes.

I think both sides acted like jerks.

[Sighphi]

Guess I'm odd man out as I'm on the side of the b-team. OG Arrow is too rooted in hypocrisy for my liking and keep repeating the same mistakes.

I want b-team to win too but the show is called Arrow. And with Rene getting his butt handed to him it looks like they have already started their exit story.

[The Darknight Detective]

I think both sides acted like jerks.

I agree there, but the B team went even that much further, IMO.

[Frontier]

Man, this has got to be one of the worst days of Oliver's life. The city is crumbling around him, he wasn't able to get the money back (which means saving Black Siren and fighting the other team ended up being pointless), his relationship with the recruits seems irreparably damaged, public faith in him is at an all time low, and it seems Diaz has the police and the district attorney all in his pocket and ready to come after him.

Marvel Studios still did their Civil War better, if only because Iron Man was still more sympathetic then the entire New Team Arrow even if he also eventually lost sight of everything and tried to kill someone who had taken the people closest to him.

Why do Rene and Curtis care so much about Vince? Because he was Dinah's boyfriend and helped them out a bit? I mean, Vigilante could almost be as bad as Black Siren at times, even if he just exclusively targeted criminals (or who he perceived to be criminals). It's not like they really knew him.

I really can't comprehend how New Team Arrow could keep Oliver not coming to save Vince against him. So was he just supposed to let the bomb that would destroy the city go and walk into a trap like NTA did? The sheer ridiculousness of the recruits astounds me sometimes .

Heck, even when they have a point, their own hypocrisy or obliviousness to when they act like Oliver just completely hurts their case .

Curtis lost any leg to stand on when he used Diggle's chip to track the team and hurt John. I mean, that could have left John in as much of a sorry state as Rene if Felicity wasn't there to help him.

I wish I felt more bad for Rene but he's been so insufferable since he was outed as the traitor that it's hard for me to sympathize with him. I mean, if anyone was looking for a fight, it was him, especially when he rubbed William in Oliver's face. Say what you will about how Oliver treated Rene, he never tried to use Zoe against him.

Are we just going to ignore Dinah knocking an unarmed and non-hostile Quentin around? They're lucky he's not in critical condition like Rene, who actually came at Oliver with an axe before Oliver knocked him down.

So I guess it's safe to assume that Felicity and Curtis' joint venture is now kaput. Which I guess is more bad for Felicity since it was her only source of income.

I had my doubts that Siren would really follow through with giving the money back, but at the same time when next we saw her it didn't look like she was in any condition to do anything, much less keep a promise. But I really wonder what she's after now that she's claiming to be Laurel and seemingly wandering around.

So, given the outcome of this episode, what do you think the final fates of the B Team will be, especially if Roy rejoins Team Arrow once again?

I think Dragon is going to force the two teams to unite again, whether they like it or not.

Sadly, we know that that isn't going to happen as Roy is only back for a few episodes, and when he leaves he is more than likely taking Thea with him (or Thea gets pregnant and is out of the field permanently).

Why is it that the good sidekicks never stick around ?

Now I'm just imagining Ragman with New Team Arrow and calling them out on how they're acting exactly like Oliver despite how many times they claim to be different.

[Immortal Weapon]

The B team is the one saddled with the hypocrisy. Everything they have complained about regarding Ollie they have done and then some since they left.

I don't recall the B-team violating each other's trust and piracy because of paranoia. Ollie trying to stop Canary is eye roll worthy considering he would kill someone who hurt him that way. He did kill Damien Darhk in the middle of the street on live television primary driven over him killing Laurel. The show tried to justify it by trying to convince themselves he was too evil to let live.

[Frontier]

I don't recall the B-team violating each other's trust and piracy because of paranoia. Ollie trying to stop Canary is eye roll worthy considering he would kill someone who hurt him that way. He did kill Damien Darhk in the middle of the street on live television primary driven over him killing Laurel. The show tried to justify it by trying to convince themselves he was too evil to let live.

The whole team's first proper mission started with Curtis keeping Vince's tip to himself up until they pressed him on his source. They'd only been operating for one minute and already one of them was keeping secrets.

And the whole reason they split off from Team Arrow was because Oliver found out Dinah and Rene were keeping secrets from him. Was Oliver paranoid and breached their privacy? Yeah. But they gave him reason too.

[Jim Kelly]

But I really wonder what she's after now that she's claiming to be Laurel and seemingly wandering around.

Isn't she claiming to be Laurel Lance because she is Laurel Lance? That's her real name. And she doesn't need to be after anything. If she's in a genuine fugue state, she might not remember the last two years. She's not trying to get away with anything, necessarily.

Of course, it's just as possible that she really is pulling an act. With this show, the way it's scripted, from week to week the plot decisions are so arbitrary that they could decide she was just faking. But if they want to re-install Black Siren as the Black Canary, then amnesia would be a way to do it.

I was also confused with how she managed to go to Corto Maltese and take this money out--what was the window of opportunity for that to happen? Laurel was in Star City and then she got shot and taken to the cabin in the woods by Quentin. That was one those things that threw me off. I thought they were setting up a doppelganger situation.

If they bent logic to make Black Siren into Laurel Lance the Black Canary, I wouldn't mind. It's not the most illogical thing they've ever done. I see people complaining that Laurel wasn't a good Black Canary, because she didn't look good in action. But that's hardly the fault of Cassidy. It's just a matter of getting better stunt work and a better costume.

I realize that Stephen Amell and Caity Lotz do a lot of their own stunts, so they're more convincing. But even they don't do all their own stunts--and most of the action is done with stunt doubles. However, I'm not looking at the fight scenes so carefully. That kind of thing only impresses me when it's so good that even an idiot like me can recognize the superiority in the work.