Arrow

[VolcanikTiger86]

From Comicbook.com:


Maybe she can get the show back on track.

The first thing I thought was maybe Olicity would go with Guggenheim, but since he will still be there now this announcement has done nothing for me. I still think that by the end of the season Team Arrow will be back because of reasons and Oliver will look weaker than he is right now. Which to be honest isn’t saying much. I love how they talk about the magic-influenced ‘olicity’ stain of season 4 when in my mind that stain started in season 3.

I can't say I'm bothered by a reduced presence of Guggenheim, at the very least.

The question I have is how much power will Guggenheim have with both series, for me the less the better.

I thought that season 3 was worse than season 4 up till they killed Laurel. How and why she was killed, followed by Oliver beating Darhk's magic due to the power of positivity made sEason 4 the worst.

My biggest issues with Season 3 is the deal with the devil that Ollie made to make Malcolm Ra’s and Felicity selfishness. My biggest issues with Season 4 was Felicity OTT reactions, her selfishness her hypocrisy and the needless propping that Olicity got on Laurel’s death bed.

Season 3's problems started with them killing Sara, and were compounded by how they used Ra's. The fact that it took half a season for him to challenge Oliver- I can understand a build up, but he was in maybe 5 minutes total before that midseason cliffhanger. They they did a complete 180 on his character by the end of the season, it was just disjointed.

I don’t think the problem was that they killed Sara, it was the reason for it and how they used it. For me watching season 3 you had to throw any logic out the window. That was a big problem.

Season 6 seems to be creeping up there to the top 3 bad seasons, but every now and then they have a bright moment like Oliver going full Hood on the cops.

Maybe for you, for me it’s already there.

I still think the biggest problem in both Season 3 and 4 was neither Olicity, nor needlessly fridging Sara and Laurel, it was keeping Malcolm Merlyn around for completely non-existent reasons.

Keeping one character around isn’t a execuse for stupid writing which I think seasons ¾ had plenty of. Doctor Know post (#7556) is one example.

I think the problem with Ra's is that they kept needing to contrive reasons why Oliver would have to go against them and they didn't always make a lot of sense, on-top of the fact that they never bothered to actually explain what the League of Assassins actually does.

Or the initial reason was insane, he declares war on the league to protect Malcolm who says that Ra’s killed Sara when he only said two episodes earlier that it wouldn’t happen.

I'll agree that Merlyn's constant survival increasingly strained logic over time but I don't think it dragged the show down anywhere near as much as Olicity drama did.

Plus after season 3 Malcolm wasn’t a massive part of the next two seasons Olicity was and the numbers are still dropping, does that not say anything to the Oliciters

[Anarchist]

I'll agree that Merlyn's constant survival increasingly strained logic over time but I don't think it dragged the show down anywhere near as much as Olicity drama did.

Keeping one character around isn’t a execuse for stupid writing which I think seasons ¾ had plenty of. Doctor Know post (#7556) is one example.

Well yeah, but its not just because I hate him personally, I sincerely think Merlyn WAS one of the main reasons why 3/4 had such atrocious writing, especially 3. I mean think about it, the entire freakin' conflict with Ra's Al Ghul was literally Merlyn's fault. It would never have come to a confrontation with Ra's had Oliver just let him keep (and kill) Merlyn.

NOBODY would have held it against him after what he did, not even Thea herself, but no, he had to bust him out and engage Ra's because of......reasons.
And what does he do when it is over, not punish him, why give him freaking control of the League.

And Season 4 was not much better in that regard. Sure, cut his hand off and let him walk free, surely THATS not gonna make his grudge against you any bigger Ollie.

Whenever that character was around, Oliver suddenly grabbed a planet sized idiot ball.

[AnakinFlair]

I still think the biggest problem in both Season 3 and 4 was neither Olicity, nor needlessly fridging Sara and Laurel, it was keeping Malcolm Merlyn around for completely non-existent reasons.

I'll agree that's a big part of it, though I actually liked how Oliver not killing Malcolm in season 4 had actual repercussions.

[AnakinFlair]

S4's flashback was pretty weak. S3 was okay though. What really elevated it was the setting (Hong Kong, instead of the island) and the two actors playing Tatsu and Maseo. Plus a few appearances by Kelly Hu (Chien Na Wei).

I think my problem with them was that they were too drawn out. If they could have had even 1/3 less flashbacks and maybe had several episodes without flashbacks, I could have gone with it better. They did feature some great moments when I stop and think about it.

The question I have is how much power will Guggenheim have with both series, for me the less the better.

There has to come a time where the studio looks at the ratings and decides they need to shake things up before they get canceled. And with the ratings tanking this year, I think the studio finally had enough. Maybe he'll still have some input, but I don't think it will be all that much anymore. Of course, only time will tell...

Hopefully they move Arrow back to Wednesdays next season. They have to see that putting it on after Supernatural isn't helping it at all. Hell, I almost think that the reason it got renewed at all was because the crossover did SO well, they want to make sure they can do it again next season.

[Frontier]

Well yeah, but its not just because I hate him personally, I sincerely think Merlyn WAS one of the main reasons why 3/4 had such atrocious writing, especially 3. I mean think about it, the entire freakin' conflict with Ra's Al Ghul was literally Merlyn's fault. It would never have come to a confrontation with Ra's had Oliver just let him keep (and kill) Merlyn.

NOBODY would have held it against him after what he did, not even Thea herself, but no, he had to bust him out and engage Ra's because of......reasons.
And what does he do when it is over, not punish him, why give him freaking control of the League.

And Season 4 was not much better in that regard. Sure, cut his hand off and let him walk free, surely THATS not gonna make his grudge against you any bigger Ollie.

Whenever that character was around, Oliver suddenly grabbed a planet sized idiot ball.

I won't deny Oliver's increasingly allowing Merlyn to live didn't get increasingly more stupid and incredulous, but I don't think anything with Merlyn drained the show of it's energy as much as some of the Olicity drama did.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Awww, Green Arrow's logo looks so sad and alone by itself. I forgot how creepy the eye paint looks on Ollie when he's in the hood. I liked seeing Chase back, but I do question them using Prometheus as the person Oliver hallucinated. It could've been Diaz, Cayden James, Good Laurel, Bad Laurel, or even himself. Prometheus on his own was better than Diaz on his own, I think it would've been more credible if they kept a couple villains around working together to break down Oliver than have one of them with little build-up all season having such a huge presence now.

When Felicity got the alert on her tablet I was expecting/hoping that she would call out the troops (Diggle, Curtis, Dinah) that Oliver is going after Diaz in city hall alone and to put aside their anger at him and help him out against overwhelming odds. Not put on her running shoes and go after him (Oliver must live pretty close to City Hall for her to get there so fast. Does Oliver walk to work everyday?)

That was odd. I guess some things in Star City are super close to each other?

[KurtW95]

From Comicbook.com:


Maybe she can get the show back on track.

Doubt it. She’s an Olicity fan.

[The Darknight Detective]

I won't deny Oliver's increasingly allowing Merlyn to live didn't get increasingly more stupid and incredulous, but I don't think anything with Merlyn drained the show of it's energy as much as some of the Olicity drama did.

Olicity. Olicity. Olicity.

Easily the most cringe-worthy aspect of the show.

[VolcanikTiger86]

Well yeah, but its not just because I hate him personally, I sincerely think Merlyn WAS one of the main reasons why 3/4 had such atrocious writing, especially 3. I mean think about it, the entire freakin' conflict with Ra's Al Ghul was literally Merlyn's fault. It would never have come to a confrontation with Ra's had Oliver just let him keep (and kill) Merlyn.

True but who got him on the whole no killing kick, that wouldn’t have been Felicity by any chance. I remind you after Season 1 Ollie DIDN’T WANT TO HOOD UP. Who talked him into it Felicity and Dig and Felicity from what I remember wasn’t subtle about it.

NOBODY would have held it against him after what he did, not even Thea herself, but no, he had to bust him out and engage Ra's because of......reasons.
And what does he do when it is over, not punish him, why give him freaking control of the League.

True

And Season 4 was not much better in that regard. Sure, cut his hand off and let him walk free, surely THATS not gonna make his grudge against you any bigger Ollie.

While this was stupid Malcolm wasn’t a big part of the season heck I give you how Felicity and Barry acted during the crossover that year Oliver asks Barry to keep a secret because Felicity asks Barry gives it to her and she loses the rap because he didn’t automatically come to her and proceed to dump him. This is what people believe is true love in that case I’ll die only and be happier for it thanks.

Whenever that character was around, Oliver suddenly grabbed a planet sized idiot ball.

The way they have written Ollie over the past 4/5 years he picks that particular ball up and down on a whim.

There has to come a time where the studio looks at the ratings and decides they need to shake things up before they get canceled. And with the ratings tanking this year, I think the studio finally had enough. Maybe he'll still have some input, but I don't think it will be all that much anymore. Of course, only time will tell...

Shaking things up without dealing with the actual issue is a problem. We can agree to disagree what the main issue is I think its Saint Fefe and the holy couple Olicity who act like a couple born in hell.

Hopefully they move Arrow back to Wednesdays next season. They have to see that putting it on after Supernatural isn't helping it at all. Hell, I almost think that the reason it got renewed at all was because the crossover did SO well, they want to make sure they can do it again next season.

Fine with me it gives them a chance to fix the issues.

I won't deny Oliver's increasingly allowing Merlyn to live didn't get increasingly more stupid and incredulous, but I don't think anything with Merlyn drained the show of it's energy as much as some of the Olicity drama did.

TESTIFY

Doubt it. She’s an Olicity fan.

REALLY REALLY why the **** am I not surprised, Marc steps down and lets one of his people step up so Olicity and Saint Fefe are safe. Is it bad that I hope you are wrong does this make me a bad person.

Olicity. Olicity. Olicity.

Easily the most cringe-worthy aspect of the show.

Tell that to the 60-75% of the fandom because you can’t look for any fanfiction which isn’t felicity even when you ask them to not give you Olicity they still give it to you.

[The Darknight Detective]

Tell that to the 60-75% of the fandom because you can’t look for any fanfiction which isn’t felicity even when you ask them to not give you Olicity they still give it to you.

I know. The problem is I seriously doubt 60-75% of the viewers actually watching the show feel the same way about the pairing.

[Sandy Hausler]

Olicity. Olicity. Olicity.

Easily the most cringe-worthy aspect of the show.

Really? How about the fact that people come back from the dead routinely? (Granted that's a comic book trope.)

How about the idea that the leader of the League of Assassins thinks that it's a great idea to make the one man who doesn't want to lead the League of Assassins his successors?

How about a League of Assassins that seems not to assassinate anyone, but whose purpose is to avenge perceived insults?

How about the constant back and forth as to whether the Green Arrow is a hero or a villain to the public?

There are a gazillion things in the show that one might find cringe-worthy.

Outside of internet message boards, I have not found anybody who dislikes Felicity or her relationship with Oliver. In fact, message board outsiders love her. Yes, the R'as Al Ghul season was weak, but it was not weak because Felicity and Oliver were in love. And, as of now, their relationship is just a part of who they are; it's not a big thing in the plot.

So please stop giving the impression that Arrow would be perfect if Felicity were dead (not talking about you, Darknight Detective, but I've seen a lot of that kind of talk on this thread). She's a well-loved character to the viewers at large, and I suspect she'll be around as long as Arrow is on the air.

Sandy Hausler

[KurtW95]

I know. The problem is I seriously doubt 60-75% of the viewers actually watching the show feel the same way about the pairing.

If I were to guess, I’d say the Olicity fans make up 20% of the viewers at most. The rest either hate it or are indifferent. It’s just that the Olicity fans are the ones all over social media making fanfictions, photoshops, and dressing up as Felicity (as a lot of the Olicity fans see her as a self-insert), which makes people think there are more of them. And sadly that is pretty much what happened since she was introduced and the writers thought there was a groundswell of support for her. This is also when a lot of the normal fans weren’t very much into Laurel because her plot was basically just being a drunk and Sara was outshining her. Then she became more liked and Felicity became hated due to beyond excessive usage of her and rewriting of the plot to make her the main love interest instead. Taking it to it’s extreme when she’s killed off and Olicity is praised by her before she passes. Then Oliver goes out like an idiot and tells the world her identity because he Damian Darhk hurt his feelings, making it harder to bring her back because everybody will know who she is now. I really think the only way to fix Arrow at this point is to write Felicity off and/or bring Laurel back with some time travel shenanigans. It’s good that they’re going to bring back Roy in the next season, but I don’t know how they’re going to have him live in Star City since everyone thinks he was the original Arrow. I did see that Sara’s going to be in the finale, which makes me hope that some kind of time travel shenanigans happen to make people forget the identities of Roy and Laurel, as well as bring Laurel back. And Black Siren could just die. She’s really overstayed her welcome. But Katie Cassidy seems to still want to be on the show, so let her. As Black Canary.

[Sandy Hausler]

I know. The problem is I seriously doubt 60-75% of the viewers actually watching the show feel the same way about the pairing.

It actually is a good pairing as could be seen as early as season 1.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

And while I'm talking about Felicity, here's an idea for a future season.

When we first met Felicity, she was an IT person at Queen Industries. She wasn't head of the IT department. She was pretty low level, at least as far as was shown.

We later find out she is a top MIT graduate and a world class hacker. Why is she working at that low level job. Well maybe she was at QI for another purpose. Maybe Felicity has been keeping a secret. And maybe it involves Walter Steele, Ollie's step father with whom she had a close (non-romantic) relationship. Could be the making of a good season if Felicity's secret (maybe involving her father, the Calculator) comes home to roost.

Sandy Hausler

[KurtW95]

And while I'm talking about Felicity, here's an idea for a future season.

When we first met Felicity, she was an IT person at Queen Industries. She wasn't head of the IT department. She was pretty low level, at least as far as was shown.

We later find out she is a top MIT graduate and a world class hacker. Why is she working at that low level job. Well maybe she was at QI for another purpose. Maybe Felicity has been keeping a secret. And maybe it involves Walter Steele, Ollie's step father with whom she had a close (non-romantic) relationship. Could be the making of a good season if Felicity's secret (maybe involving her father, the Calculator) comes home to roost.

Sandy Hausler

I would guess it has something to do with illegal hacking with her then boyfriend, Brother Eye.