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Thread: Arrow

  1. #8896
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    She was a general in Zoom's army, and I think that still happened (he just wasn't from Earth 2). Other than that and killing Vigilante, Black Siren's been nothing more than a lackey for a stronger male character.
    She bombed Star City's police department and worked with Ricardo Diaz.

  2. #8897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    She bombed Star City's police department and worked with Ricardo Diaz.
    I forget that she bombed the police department. As for Diaz, she was his lackey for a time.

    My thoughts on the finale:

    It's gonna be weird not having this show around anymore. The good in my mind far outweighed the bad, and I'll miss seeing these characters every week.

    It was great to see so many cameos. It was nice that they worked Slade in some way, and it was great seeing Oliver save Moira. That being said, I really want to know how the rest of that season played out now.

    Tommy married Laurel! It is sad that they didn't bring back Earth 1 Laurel (it would have been easy, and given E2 Laurel another reason to travel in time). Guggenheim said they didn't want to undo everything that E2 Laurel had gone through, and I can understand that.... still, there could have been two.

    It was great to see Tommy again, and it was even better that he shaved He still looks like season 1 Tommy without the beard.

    Nice to see the flashbacks again, and to see Season 1 Hood mowing down armed thugs. I get that he spared Byrne, but he did kill like 30 guys there.

    Nice that we got one last fight scene. I'm guessing that was the entire stunt department.

    Roy and Thea get their happy ending! But again, I want to know how things played out that Thea still ended up becoming a vigilante, and presumably the co-leader of a new League.

    Speaking of which- I cannot believe they were actually able to get Katrina Law back for a scene, since she's living and working in Hawaii now. But I'm glad they did- as much as anyone, Nyssa has been an integral part of this show since season 2, even if she only appeared sporadically. And it was nice to see her getting along with Talia.

    Sara is still her beloved. Guess it's a good thing she didn't bring Ava with her.

    Mia got to say goodbye, and got to give some comfort to her younger brother and Mother at the same time.

    Emiko finally gets to be accepted as a Queen. Wonder if Moira know Emiko knew about the bomb on the boat... At least her and Thea FINALLY got to share a scene.

    So Diggle is moving to Metropolis- and FINALLY has the Green Lantern ring! Makes me wonder if maybe he'll move over to the Superman and Lois Lane show. I guess it all depends on WB, and if they would allow a Green Lantern on the CW at the same time they are making a Green Lantern show for HBO. Or if it would even be allowed contractually.

    All of the other cameos were great to see as well, from Anatoli, to Lance, to Ragman, to Moira of course. And Barry and Kara came to say goodbye, which was perfect. I wish Sin could have been there, though.

    Funny thing is, all day I've seen pictures being posted of Maddison McLaughlin with the cast members- all apparently from the past. Because we still don't know what happened to Evelyn.

    And the ending... screw what the haters are saying. Oliver and Felicity essentially got the ending that Superman, Lois, Alexander and Superboy Prime got at the end of Crisis- they get to spend eternity together in a paradise realm. I see people bitching already that Felicity abandoned her children to be with Oliver--- bullshit. I see that argument in the old timeline, where William had just found her again and Mia had been raised as a warrior and probably didn't get the best mother she could have gotten. But this is a new reality. William and Mia were raised together, by Felicity. She got to watch them grow up and become heroes themselves, and when they were ready to stand on their own, she chose to move on. And now she and Oliver can finally rest. That is a perfect ending, IMO.

  3. #8898

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    @AnakainFlair - One small problem I agreed with a lot of what you said but a few minor points.

    One episode doesn't wipe away all the crap that has come before it, you say that the ending with Oliver and Felicity is a perfect ending, I call bullshit because they is no such thing as a perfect ending.
    I think they told the story that they wanted to tell but they did leave a hell of a lot of questions much as you went through,
    I haven't watched as it hasn't aired in the uk yet hell I haven't even really watched crisis yet.
    However pretty sure once again all the stuff Felicity did she hasn't to me anyway grown from it, its as if Guggy wants us to forget that she manipulated, lied and stole, I heard that the ending we got was always the ending they were going to give us they didn't even have a backup plan they insisted that EBR had to come back and do it. They were lucky that she could but to me its one last jab that Olicity was meant to be and perfect soul mate who loved each other and its a perfect relationship when to me it was for the majority of its run toxic. Felicity did what she wanted and Oliver had to bend to accommodate but like hell did she ever bend for him. Sorry and I do mean that but I really hate and I do meant hate Olicty and Olicters because of the blinders and truthfully Felicity as a character even after 6 years has potential but needs work and the show has ended. To end on a good note you told your story and I respect that Thank you for the inspiration.
    Truth is the best policy

  4. #8899
    Spectacular Member Elden's Avatar
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    What an incredible finale. Is Digg going to be the lead in the new Green Lantern show that is apparently happening or was his ending just a massive tease?

    As for the pilot for the future spin off: I liked it. I really hope William, Zoe and Connor get their memories back though. Will be disappointing to lose the versions we had otherwise.

    I can see them deciding not to do it for Connor because it will too similar to JJ since both timelines had a good one and an evil one. Although on the other hand contrasting their reactions could make good drama.

    Maybe original!Zoe having died will make the new!Zoe unable to gain her memories.

    But there is really no excuse to not do it for William.

  5. #8900
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    They've already shown Green Lantern Earth-12, so I wonder why they bothered making it so vague with John's scene? They couldn't even show the ring, just a green glow from ...a box? I feel bad for anyone just watching the show who hasn't been a part of the whole GL fan stuff, because that would have made no sense - they've never said "Green Lantern" or "power ring" on the show (JWS saying "where's you ring" one time is the closest). And that's because it doesn't make sense - that was just fan service because his name was John and the show runners said he was named after "Little John" from Robin Hood. This is getting like the comics, where a story element is introduced by one writer or one book and it's just up to another show to see if they decide to do something with it because this universe is going to continue. Is John going to Metropolis? (presumably where the new Superman show will take place) If he becomes a GL, it's easy to imagine those plans changing, but then what happens with "The Flash" or some other show has some world-threatening event? John's just ... off-world? It's like how they made sure to keep Superman away from stuff on "Supergirl" since it's her show. If the GLC exists in the Earth-Prime universe, wouldn't they have had an impact on stuff on Supergirl or Legends? If the GLC just a pandora's box they don't want to open, we're left with a vague tease about John's future that they can't even confirm, that only exists on people's head-canon.

    Ultimately, it's just a bit odd that after so many years on a show, it went from a fan theory to fan wishes, to a tease to taking over the character, almost derailing his own story and leaving him in a weird unconfirmed limbo kinda fate. Guess we'll see if they ever actually go through with it on another show. (having Dig on "Superman" (or any other show) might have actually been cool, but now you almost can't do it without undoing the GL tease)
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 01-29-2020 at 06:34 AM.

  6. #8901
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    They've already shown Green Lantern Earth-12, so I wonder why they bothered making it so vague with John's scene? They couldn't even show the ring, just a green glow from ...a box? I feel bad for anyone just watching the show who hasn't been a part of the whole GL fan stuff, because that would have made no sense - they've never said "Green Lantern" or "power ring" on the show (JWS saying "where's you ring" one time is the closest). And that's because it doesn't make sense - that was just fan service because his name was John and the show runners said he was named after "Little John" from Robin Hood. This is getting like the comics, where a story element is introduced by one writer or one book and it's just up to another show to see if they decide to do something with it because this universe is going to continue. Is John going to Metropolis? (presumably where the new Superman show will take place) If he becomes a GL, it's easy to imagine those plans changing, but then what happens with "The Flash" or some other show has some world-threatening event? John's just ... off-world? It's like how they made sure to keep Superman away from stuff on "Supergirl" since it's her show. If the GLC exists in the Earth-Prime universe, wouldn't they have had an impact on stuff on Supergirl or Legends? If the GLC just a pandora's box they don't want to open, we're left with a vague tease about John's future that they can't even confirm, that only exists on people's head-canon.

    Ultimately, it's just a bit odd that after so many years on a show, it went from a fan theory to fan wishes, to a tease to taking over the character, almost derailing his own story and leaving him in a weird unconfirmed limbo kinda fate. Guess we'll see if they ever actually go through with it on another show. (having Dig on "Superman" (or any other show) might have actually been cool, but now you almost can't do it without undoing the GL tease)
    Warner Brothers has always been extremely cagey when it came to showing or mentioning Green Lanterns on the CW shows. It may be because they've supposedly had a new Green Lantern movie in the works for most of the show's run, it could be that contractually, they aren't allowed to mentioned Green Lantern on TV. For the limitations that were put in place, I thought it was great, and I do hope we see the Diggles again on Superman and Lois, or the HBO series.

  7. #8902
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Warner Brothers has always been extremely cagey when it came to showing or mentioning Green Lanterns on the CW shows. It may be because they've supposedly had a new Green Lantern movie in the works for most of the show's run, it could be that contractually, they aren't allowed to mentioned Green Lantern on TV. For the limitations that were put in place, I thought it was great, and I do hope we see the Diggles again on Superman and Lois, or the HBO series.
    I was fine with how they did it, working under the constraints we know they had. I fangirl squealed. I think its more likely to see him on the new supes show than hbo, but hoping for a cameo, brief team up, whatever we can get I am all for.

  8. #8903
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    I think for those unaware of the Green Lantern theories, they would be thinking, "Why does Diggle want to kill Superman?" Because visually it resembled pretty much every ******action version of kryptonite.

    I'm hoping Diggle and Lyla show up in the new Lois & Superman show, given that they're moving to Metropolis. If so, I wonder if they'd actually show us Green Lantern, or just make allusions to Diggle being offworld. At any rate, it was a really strong finish possibly new beginning for Diggle.

    The John Byrne easter egg was...weird? I mean, why not a gun-runner or something a bit more comic-book villan-ish? I mean, seriously, human trafficker? And they name-dropped "John Byrne" like twenty times just in case you didn't catch it.

    Also, the human trafficker subplot was a bit...off. That's the guy you use to make the case against killing? But the groveling henchmen get an arrow in the face? I'm not even sure what they were trying to say with it since the guy clearly didn't reform and nearly killed Oliver's son.

    But aside from that, it was a really nice epilogue for the series. The character work was good. I think the explanation Oliver's mother gave for why Oliver was able to bring some people back and not others was actually works. There's got to be some kind of limitation to Spectre-level earth re-creating power and that logic tracked.

    The public having full knowledge that the world was re-created post-Crisis is interesting and puts the last Arrow episode in a new context. Like you could see a whole movement coming out of people wanting to have their previous memories restored.

    Oliver seems to have magically erased Star City's crime rate. If there always a balance, does that mean Gotham's tripled overnight?
    Last edited by David Walton; 01-29-2020 at 08:25 AM.

  9. #8904
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Oliver seems to have magically erased Star City's crime rate. If there always a balance, does that mean Gotham's tripled overnight?
    Black Lightning's Big Bad for this season just said he hails from Gotham, so.... maybe!

  10. #8905
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    I liked the final intro having Oliver say a part of him will always be the Green Arrow, and then having all the different arrow logos show up. Felt full circle .

    It may have been archival footage, but they did manage to fit Manu Bennett's Slade in there one last time for the scene where Oliver changes things and saves Moira (although it sounds like season 2 still progressed as is afterwards). I would've liked flashbacks to explain away Tommy, Quentin, and Emiko surviving, but I can understand not wanting things to get bogged down too much with flashbacks. As is, it's nice that Oliver got to use his Spectre powers to save some of the major people he's lost in life and create a "better" timeline for Earth Prime.

    He also managed to use his magic to finally make Star City free of major crime, a spell that lasted for about 20 years. I guess with Gotham around now we don't need Star City to be the worst city ever.

    Probably the most underrated revival...Queen Manor! I guess they had to keep it around so Moira had a place to live since she survived.

    Seeing all of Team Arrow together again for the finale was pretty great, with Curtis, Sara, Thea, and even Rory come back so it felt even more complete then the finale least season .

    So I guess they're really going to leave the future!William kidnapping plot thread going until the pilot for the spinoff gets picked up. Which had me realize that William is like those old school love interests who get kidnapped a lot to motivate the heroes.

    I'm glad the writers were able to help themselves and didn't just throw in John Barrowman as Malcolm in the last minute. So the final villain of Arrow ends up being...John Byrne? Did they get permission to use his name for this? I kinda don't see Byrne agreeing to put his name to an unscrupulous human trafficker. Did the writers have something against John Byrne? It's not like he's had much of a role in crafting Green Arrow on the comics side, that I can think of.

    And, yeah, I kinda agree that showing that sequence, beyond giving us one awesome sequence of Ollie in action in his prime season 1 state of him soloing a bunch of guys, really didn't add anything new to Ollie's journey to a hero since even back in season one he had a tendency to leave the corrupt exec alive while he mowed down all their armed guards with impunity. Like, did we need to see him put an arrow into that guy who was on the ground, begging? Kind of defeated the message in my mind, on-top of the bad guy coming back to kidnap William and making Oliver keeping him alive seem kind of pointless.

    That Van Wayne Industries tease was fun, both as a reference to Powerless and because Alan Tudyk has voiced Green Arrow a bunch of times. Now I'm just imagining Kate having to deal with her cousin, played by Alan Tudyk .

    It was nice to see them finally end the will they/won't they with Roy and Thea by just plain having Roy propose and Thea accept, finally confirming that relationship for good (hopefully). Although it would've been nice if Roy had found a ring to propose with...

    Mia has the potential to be what Oliver never was, a Green Arrow who truly never kills. I forget if the original Mia killed anybody but that doesn't really apply to this Mia. She's also a lot less wild as a socialite at her age compared to her dad and aunt.

    I'm glad they revived Quentin, especially since him getting to talk about how much of a hero Oliver was and dedicate a statue to the Green Arrow felt like the perfect way of capping off their relationship across this whole series.

    I wonder what's next for the Arrowcave. Is it still intact in 2040? It would be a shame to not use it again if Mia is going to be the Green Arrow now.

    Nyssa showing up with Talia was perfect. I'm glad the Al Ghul sisters managed to make it, even if Nyssa had to act like she never really cared about Oliver (but she cared enough to train his daughter). I'm also happy we got to see Sara and Nyssa reunite for a brief second, though Sara seems a lot less comfortable with Nyssa calling her "Beloved" now. I guess mentioning Ava would be pretty awkward.

    So was Emiko never with the 9th Circle in this timeline or did Oliver just prevent her death during season 8? I'm not sure she could be running around a free woman after all she did that season, but you never know. It was nice to see Moira invite her to live in Queen Manor, although it was also kind of ironic in light of how Moira was partially responsible for how terribly Robert treated Emiko and her mother.

    Moira speculates that Oliver couldn't prevent the deaths that helped forge him into the hero he became...which explains why he didn't revive Robert, to a lesser extent Shado, but I guess he made a special exception for Tommy since Tommy's death was originally what made him want to become a hero instead of a killer. I guess Samantha needed to stay dead so Oliver could learn to be a father from taking care of William.

    Oliver didn't revive Earth-1 Laurel, seemingly because he didn't want to write Earth-2 Laurel out of existence by doing so, subtly acknowledging she had earned the right to be Black Canary and carry on Laurel's legacy as her own person. But at least Oliver let Laurel marry Tommy in this timeline, so she may have found a little more happiness before her death, although I wonder if her deathbed confession about still loving Oliver happened.

    I'm glad Barry and Kara made it to the funeral. I mean, Barry was Oliver's best Superhero friend and he originated from Arrow, so it made the most sense for him to turn up but I'm glad Kara showed up too, especially since she didn't get a last moment with Ollie like Barry and Sara did. It wouldn't have felt right to have the funeral without the rest of the Arrowverse Trinity.

    I think John perfectly summed up the true meaning of the series. It wasn't just about Oliver saving the city, which he did, but it was also about him becoming a better man and truly changing as a person, and how he inspired and helped others change into their better selves through their knowing him.

    I can't think of a fitting last scene for Dinah then riding a motorcycle into the night. Nothing's more Black Canary then riding a motorcycle.

    So...that Green Lantern Diggle tease. A rocket crashes into the ground with a box containing a glowing ring that everyone and their mother knows is a Green Lantern ring. Where do we go from here? Is there a plan to go anywhere with it? Just a tease like that time we saw Hal Jordan and his jacket back in season 4? Is Diggle going to take Oliver's crusade into space? Was it deliberate that they mentioned the Diggle family moving to Metropolis when they have a Superman show coming out? So many questions.

    I guess The Monitor is alive then. I wonder if they're going to do anything with him now that Crisis has been resolved. Will he be like The Watcher and warn the Super Friends the next time a major threat is on its way?

    I can kind of see why Felicity felt more comfortable leaving Mia and William to go see Oliver with the future at peace and her kids grown into strong, capable, adults...but I think her kids would've appreciated having their mom around. And Felicity wasn't old and frail or anything. But I guess they also would've appreciated their mom getting to see their dad again.

    I remember comparing Oliver's blank seat at the Super Friends roundtable to a beckoning call to King Arthur, and here we see that Oliver was able to obtain his own Albion, a perfect re-construction of Star City at peace for him to call home with the woman he loves. I do wonder if there's anything more to that city then just Oliver and Felicity, because I don't know if they want to spend the rest of their existence just talking about stuff, but I guess that's a romantic way to close out the series.

  11. #8906
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I think for those unaware of the Green Lantern theories, they would be thinking, "Why does Diggle want to kill Superman?" Because visually it resembled pretty much every ******action version of kryptonite.

    I'm hoping Diggle and Lyla show up in the new Lois & Superman show, given that they're moving to Metropolis. If so, I wonder if they'd actually show us Green Lantern, or just make allusions to Diggle being offworld. At any rate, it was a really strong finish possibly new beginning for Diggle.

    The John Byrne easter egg was...weird? I mean, why not a gun-runner or something a bit more comic-book villan-ish? I mean, seriously, human trafficker? And they name-dropped "John Byrne" like twenty times just in case you didn't catch it.

    Also, the human trafficker subplot was a bit...off. That's the guy you use to make the case against killing? But the groveling henchmen get an arrow in the face? I'm not even sure what they were trying to say with it since the guy clearly didn't reform and nearly killed Oliver's son.

    But aside from that, it was a really nice epilogue for the series. The character work was good. I think the explanation Oliver's mother gave for why Oliver was able to bring some people back and not others was actually works. There's got to be some kind of limitation to Spectre-level earth re-creating power and that logic tracked.

    The public having full knowledge that the world was re-created post-Crisis is interesting and puts the last Arrow episode in a new context. Like you could see a whole movement coming out of people wanting to have their previous memories restored.

    Oliver seems to have magically erased Star City's crime rate. If there always a balance, does that mean Gotham's tripled overnight?
    I can hear Kate swearing from Central City, lol.

  12. #8907
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    Why wasn't Ray at the funeral? He started on Arrow and was more important to the show than a few of the other minor characters they brought back, Ragman especially.

  13. #8908
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I've seen some people making a joke that, since we didn't see what was in the box, it might not have been a Green Lantern ring but the Omnitrix from Ben 10 instead .
    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    Why wasn't Ray at the funeral? He started on Arrow and was more important to the show than a few of the other minor characters they brought back, Ragman especially.
    They probably couldn't fit Routh in (although they got Caity, Grant and Melissa in, so maybe they just didn't think of it).

    Actually, now that I think about it, the only Arrowverse leads who didn't make it were Kate and Jefferson.

  14. #8909
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    So I guess they're really going to leave the future!William kidnapping plot thread going until the pilot for the spinoff gets picked up. Which had me realize that William is like those old school love interests who get kidnapped a lot to motivate the heroes.


    And, yeah, I kinda agree that showing that sequence, beyond giving us one awesome sequence of Ollie in action in his prime season 1 state of him soloing a bunch of guys, really didn't add anything new to Ollie's journey to a hero since even back in season one he had a tendency to leave the corrupt exec alive while he mowed down all their armed guards with impunity. Like, did we need to see him put an arrow into that guy who was on the ground, begging? Kind of defeated the message in my mind, on-top of the bad guy coming back to kidnap William and making Oliver keeping him alive seem kind of pointless.

    Guggenheim commented about the William kidnapping. He joked if they had William kidnapped one more time, they would get a set of steak knives

    I wonder if showing Oliver mowing down all of those goons was a way of showing that Oliver did deserve to die for his past actions, and then the ending showed that because of the man he became after this, he earned a peaceful rest. Or maybe it was just to show how far he came, from a cold-blooded killer to a hero.

  15. #8910
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I've seen some people making a joke that, since we didn't see what was in the box, it might not have been a Green Lantern ring but the Omnitrix from Ben 10 instead .

    They probably couldn't fit Routh in (although they got Caity, Grant and Melissa in, so maybe they just didn't think of it).

    Actually, now that I think about it, the only Arrowverse leads who didn't make it were Kate and Jefferson.
    However, neither really had anything to do with Oliver. Kate only through one part of Elseworlds and the tail end of Ollie's life in COIE. And Jefferson... Never actually met him.

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