Arrow

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

I can say it is often a second- or -third priority for me as a viewer.

Well acting matters a big time for me. Thats why I could take 24 seriously despite the fact of Jack Bauer defeating 4,5 terrorist attacks in a single day. Great acting makes your story more real regardless of the cheesiness of the story. Not that 24 is cheesy but Arrow certainly is.

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

There you go. You've given the show a chance. It failed. Now stop watching the show and go watch something else you like... and go look for a forum that talks about that show you like. Hopefully that will stop you from posting in this thread where people like to talk about the story instead of nitpicking it to pieces.

Will do dude.

[GlennSimpson]

Well acting matters a big time for me. Thats why I could take 24 seriously despite the fact of Jack Bauer defeating 4,5 terrorist attacks in a single day. Great acting makes your story more real regardless of the cheesiness of the story. Not that 24 is cheesy but Arrow certainly is.

I'm more into interesting plots, cool effects, and attractive actresses.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

I like Katie Cassidy. The problem is that, for two seasons, they've established Laurel as this pant-suit wearing all business civilian caught up in the masked vigilante drama. She's a point of contrast in the story. So it's hard to see her occupying the opposite side of the field. But then I had a problem imagining Thea as a master of the martial arts. Last episode's ending went some distance in getting me through that transition. So I think if they can pull off Thea as Dark Arrowette, then it will be easier to accept Laurel as the new Black Canary.

But the selling point of Green Arrow is that Oliver Queen ended up on an island where he had to struggle for survival, and through that crucible of endurance he becomes a master of the bow. That the TV show made this term on the island a full five years served to prove Oliver's legitimacy as a world class archer and action man. But since the pilot, they've been chipping away at that worthy foundation.

I expected to see Oliver going through five years of hell, before he finally had the credentials for his war on crime. Yet it was more like months, before he was almost at the level of Shado and Deathstroke. And now he's off the island and apparently a trained assassin, after just two years.

Then we have characters like Sara and Roy who seem to have become combatting contenders almost overnight.

So the grounding that the show first gave its characters gets muddier and muddier all the time. And under those conditions, Laurel makes as much sense as anyone else as a kung fu fighter.

Sara has been gone the same amount of time as Ollie. A year longer. What concerns me is they are basicly saying each seasons worth of flashbacks is a year on the island when really it has only been a few months. If you listen to amell at nycc he thinks he is half way through his time on the island and that once five seasons is over they have to come up with a new concept.

[PiercedMonk]

The motorcycle scene was ridiculously stupid. Those two minutes of sheer lameness really took away from what otherwise might have been a great episode.

The motorcycle mounted archery duel was the only bright spot in an otherwise garbage episode, but to each their own.

[Jim Kelly]

Sara has been gone the same amount of time as Ollie. A year longer. What concerns me is they are basicly saying each seasons worth of flashbacks is a year on the island when really it has only been a few months. If you listen to amell at nycc he thinks he is half way through his time on the island and that once five seasons is over they have to come up with a new concept.

Well Sara was on that freighter with Ivo. I'm not sure how much training she got there. Then she's with Ollie on the island for a short time, still not much training. Then she leaves and Ollie thinks she's dead and by this time I'm guessing it's two years in. Then at some point Sara gets her training with the League of Assassins, so maybe three years of training?

Roy presumably arrives in Starling City with some fighting skills. Then he gets Miraclo powers. And now he's a martial arts master.

So I'm saying the amount of time it takes to become an expert fighter is not as long as I originally expected based on the pilot episode. I was expecting to see Ollie struggling for survival all the time on the island--constantly hunted, always having to use his wits and develop his skills.

I had high hopes for the new Hong Kong flashbacks. But in the last two episodes, they've just wasted time. Ollie has yet to go on a mission for Waller. Also, Waller is a horrible human being. Is she really supposed to be one of the good guys?

But kudos to the production crew. I was really blown away by that scene with Thea and Malcolm--they totally made it look like some exotic locale far removed from Starling City. Yet I know everything was filmed right here in our rainy west coast home.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

Well Sara was on that freighter with Ivo. I'm not sure how much training she got there. Then she's with Ollie on the island for a short time, still not much training. Then she leaves and Ollie thinks she's dead and by this time I'm guessing it's two years in. Then at some point Sara gets her training with the League of Assassins, so maybe three years of training?

Roy presumably arrives in Starling City with some fighting skills. Then he gets Miraclo powers. And now he's a martial arts master.

So I'm saying the amount of time it takes to become an expert fighter is not as long as I originally expected based on the pilot episode. I was expecting to see Ollie struggling for survival all the time on the island--constantly hunted, always having to use his wits and develop his skills.

I had high hopes for the new Hong Kong flashbacks. But in the last two episodes, they've just wasted time. Ollie has yet to go on a mission for Waller. Also, Waller is a horrible human being. Is she really supposed to be one of the good guys?

But kudos to the production crew. I was really blown away by that scene with Thea and Malcolm--they totally made it look like some exotic locale far removed from Starling City. Yet I know everything was filmed right here in our rainy west coast home.

there is no way the time on the island and the freightor incompasses 2 years.

[Punisher007]

Thea is a bit easier to buy because there's a least SOME foreshadowing with her. Honestly Roy was much more annoying because he could barely even properly hold a bow, then he had his Mirakuru freakout, was in a coma, and when he woke up he was suddenly a master archer. It also cheapens Oliver and Sara's journeys. They had to go through hell for YEARS to get where they are, whereas Roy (and Laurel if they go this route) can do it in a few weeks or months largely offscreen, no just no.

[Jack Flag]

Thoughts on this episode-

For those of us who love Felicity, the only thing worse than seeing her in pain is seeing her in pain for an entire episode. I'm enjoying "The Flash" with all its color and upbeat-ness and all, but I enjoy the dark and somber approach too and "Arrow" is delivering it in spades.

So it wasn't Komodo after all. Remember, it was someone Sara knew, or thought she knew. I was thinking the killer was Thea before but she is in training in another part of the world. Is she globe trotting back and forth? I'm still thinking it might be her but I had another idea as well. Maybe Sara only saw a hooded killer in the shadows and thought it was Oliver. It would be a shame if she died thinking he killed her. By the way, I didn't understand the funeral scene. They were talking like they were burying her in secret and Laurel saying she didn't even get a "fresh grave" sounded like they were stacking her on top of someone else, but the headstone said Sara Lance. How is that secret? Would appreciate it if someone can explain this.

Sorry to all those who don't like Laurel as a character or Katie Cassidy as an actress. I've never been one of those but I do admit she hasn't always been stellar. But in this episode there was a moment where I really got on board with her and where she appears to be going. It was when she said, "When I thought Sara died on the Gambit, the only thing I could do was scream at the ocean." I can't fully explain why but there was just something about that line and how dramatic it was that made me go "Wow, THIS is the Laurel I've been waiting for." I actually paused to write it down so I'd remember it. If she is to be Black Canary then so be it. Nyssa could train her but then wouldn't she be expected to join the League of Assassins like Sara? Laurel would not abide that, and may opt to ask Oliver to train her instead.

I think it was Ra's al Ghul not agreeing with his daughter's decision to let her lover, Sara be a free bird. And Sara will rise again via the Lazarus Pit's power (all guesses on my part).

[Kensei]

I think Sara is permanently dead. It was mentioned that Catie Lotz only signed on for three episodes this season and she's already finished two (one in which she only had to play a corpse), with the third most likely being a flashback. But if she does get resurrected her body would have to disappear from her grave soon. I would imagine the Lazarus Pit would have to be used fairly quickly after death before decomposition sets in. I really don't think they'll go that route with Sara. It's so obvious that Laurel will be the new Black Canary now, how likely is it that there would be two of them? If Sara comes back to life, Laurel's whole inspiration to assume the role disappears.

I do however think that Malcolm Merlyn was brought back in the pit. There's been some disagreement about this but I watched the Season 1 finale twice just to be sure and I'm convinced he WAS dead. Presumably after he came back it was too late for him to secure Tommy's body and bring him back too, or else he just couldn't get permission.

No one's mentioned yet the prospect of Oliver and/or Roy ending up fighting Thea but it seems kind of inevitable. How does everyone think that might play out?

(p.s. Hey, I got post #1,000! )

[Kensei]

Oh by the way, I posted this on the Flash Season 1 thread so I guess I'll do it here as well- As of a couple of days ago with Warner Brothers' announcement of their official plan for a movie lineup that includes Ezra Miller playing the Flash, the chance of "Arrow" and "The Flash" merging with the DC movieverse is now oficially dead. I know there was little chance of it but I'm still kind of bummed.

[VolcanikTiger86]

I meant fans of the show, who offer opinions on the internet.

Sorry no disrespect but is that not fans in generally, I’m a fan of the show and I offer opinions on the internet maybe not the ones everyone would like me to have (e.g not liking olicity but really likng Smoaking Canarrow I think that’s the name for Oliver/Sara/Felicity)

Komodo looked like Casey Jones took up archery. That outfit didn't look as cool as I had hoped. Oh well, I wasn't really that familiar with the character anyways.

Sarah's character definitely seems to be getting more and more aggressive. I'm guessing this is the beginning of her quest for vengeance regarding Sara's death. Like I said earlier I think she gets taken in by the League of Assassins. Maybe through Nyssa. Can't wait to see Laurel in that tiny little outfit kicking ass haha. Going to be awesome.

I doubt it unless they would show us Laurel training and with Ras and Nyssa cast I suppose it could happen. I still saying that Laurel won't be on Sara's level if she takes it up at the end of this year, if Roy is better than Oliver then i would scream FOUL.

I think Sara is permanently dead. It was mentioned that Catie Lotz only signed on for three episodes this season and she's already finished two (one in which she only had to play a corpse), with the third most likely being a flashback. But if she does get resurrected her body would have to disappear from her grave soon. I would imagine the Lazarus Pit would have to be used fairly quickly after death before decomposition sets in. I really don't think they'll go that route with Sara. It's so obvious that Laurel will be the new Black Canary now, how likely is it that there would be two of them? If Sara comes back to life, Laurel's whole inspiration to assume the role disappears.

I do however think that Malcolm Merlyn was brought back in the pit. There's been some disagreement about this but I watched the Season 1 finale twice just to be sure and I'm convinced he WAS dead. Presumably after he came back it was too late for him to secure Tommy's body and bring him back too, or else he just couldn't get permission.

No one's mentioned yet the prospect of Oliver and/or Roy ending up fighting Thea but it seems kind of inevitable. How does everyone think that might play out?

(p.s. Hey, I got post #1,000! )

Congrats

They could do or they could change the rules for Sara or just not mention that her grave was robbed, the deciding factor for me would be if Katie is going to stay for the long run but if they do have her body stolen then they would cover her tracks even if nothing comes of it. On Tommy chances are he didn't even ask if you listen to Malcom talk about Tommy in the season 2 finale Malcom washed his hands off him because Tommy wouldn't kill him. As for Thea i would say it will be Roy while Oliver takes on Malcom again.

[Kensei]

As for Thea i would say it will be Roy while Oliver takes on Malcom again.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense and I can easily see it happening. And now that I'm thinking about it I really hope that between Roy and Thea neither kills the other. A fight between them could be epic and they can beat the absolute crap out of each other, but I really hope that Thea can be redeemed and brought back, because both Roy and Oliver still love her so much. As for Malcolm, whether dead or in the cell next to Deathstroke I really don't care.

Also with Malcolm, it's been established he fears Ras al Ghul so there might be a very dramatic confrontation between them at some point. It makes me wonder what all went on in his resurrection. Might someone have used the Lazarus Pit without the consent of Ras?

By the way, can someone please refresh my memory- does Oliver know that Malcolm is Thea's father?

[PiercedMonk]

By the way, can someone please refresh my memory- does Oliver know that Malcolm is Thea's father?

He does. For some reason he and Moira thought it was a good idea to keep that secret from Thea for most of season two. It's part of why Thea was so upset with Ollie in the last few episodes.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Oh yeah, he knew for like half of last season iirc. But so far Malcolm seems to have not told Thea that Oliver is the Arrow or the Hood or whoever, still surprised that Thea doesn't seem to have a problem with a guy that murdered hundreds if not thousands and would probably be arrested on sight if he ever showed back up in the city. We saw back in season 1 that Laurel could fight, as for Roy we saw from his first episode that this version isn't just your average street thug done good, a lot of how Oliver gets through the city as Arrow is the same way that Roy already was, and Roy could already fight as well, sure not great but he's had now at least some training and it's not like Roy has anything else to do. As for Thea, I'm going to guess that we're going to get to the point where she'll believe anything that Malcolm says and tries to kill Oliver not knowing that he's the Arrow and probably Roy too, Oliver will probably try to tell her that Malcolm is just using her...she won't listen...still think that it'll end in a way that Malcolm can either save Thea or get his money/something that he covets greatly and he'll leave her to die, which would then make things interesting when she'd face Oliver and Roy again after being proven wrong.