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  1. #16
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    I disagree with the premise, I think the Titans franchise was more damaged during the 2010s and before that. I'd argue that the Titans are the most damaged comic book franchise.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Thing is, I don't see the Flash franchise as "damaged" unless you were a fervent Wally fan.

    "Fractured" is probably a more useful term, especially as time goes on and any newer Flash-followers have no problems accepting Barry as "The Flash".
    I mean that and like 15 other characters? Wally wasn't the only one.

    Imagine if a year after GL Rebirth, Kyle, John, and Guy no longer existed. And everything they ever did was also gone.

    GL didn't even get rebooted, they got it better than everyone but Batman. Kyle got a little fucked over in the whole ordeal but everything else stuck.
    Last edited by Dred; 07-30-2021 at 07:48 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I've gotta be REEEAAALLLY careful here, as I am a rabid Wally West fan, but a fan of the Flash, period.
    The Flash franchise wasn't 'fractured'.
    It was atom bombed.


    I do not disagree. It went from a top 5 book rich with character, action, and innovation to something I don't collect or care for. The only thing that has mildly engaged me since is the CW verse casting

  4. #19

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    Personally I still wouldn't mind introducing a new character as the next main Flash after Wally finishes his latest comeback. I like all the Flashes but the bouncing back and fourth between Barry and Wally became exhausting. I feel like Barry is better off while Wally is his inferior sidekick. While Wally is better off with Barry dead and has since surpassed him. Keeping them both around as the Flash is like trying to please everyone while actually getting the worst of both worlds.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Captain Nostalgia's Avatar
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    I'd wait and see how it plays out first...

    If they roll with Wally, there is a good chance they'll reboot the Flash back to issue 1, to promote his return on the title. (That would be the smart thing to do business wise)

    Fractured yes, but I love both Barry and Wally, just be thankful it's not the mess Green Lantern has become, and that either Wally or Barry will most likely still be part of the JLA team. (I wish Hal fans could say that)

  6. #21
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    Honestly I don't really think the sales are much of a problem. Comic sales in general aren't very healthy, and The Flash is selling more or less the same as it did previous to the relaunch. They'll probably stick with their plan of keeping Wally for a while. But yeah, it got screwed real hard. I wish Wally had the same treatment Kyle had when Hal came back. Sadly the modern comic landscape makes very hard for a second Flash Wally title to exist, so when Barry comes back the best case scenario is that they both co-star.

  7. #22
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    I think DC would be more open to a 5 or 6 issue mini series once a year rather than throw out a second monthly title.
    It would likely sell the same numbers, and still give fans their fix. (Be it either Barry, Wally OR a look at the rest of the extended Flash Family - Jay, Max, John, Bart, Jesse)
    Include them all as supporting characters in the main title giving them all some exposure and create enough interest that readers want to see more.

    Hell, just thinking about it as I type, we haven't mentioned Piper, Chunk or Morello & Chyre.
    The fact DC thought it appropriate to jettison it all is mindblowing.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    In the 90's, Flash franchise have grown over the decades from building the roles of Jay Garrick and Max Mercury. The introduction of Bart Allen and finally established the creation of speed force. But the 2010's, DC has undo all the history and legacy of Flash by giving everything for Barry Allen ever since the Flashpoint. Then at DC Rebirth, DC has bought back Wally to the mainstream DC universe. However, he was sidelined as a result of the editor mandate. Now, here we are. Wally West has been established back as the main Flash. Despite have a strong and good reviews of his latest run, the sales prove otherwise which was worrisome because we don't want another Flash book get cancelled due to poor sales.

    Because of this, it just show a huge scar of the Flash franchise. What do you think you can fix those broken.
    The Titans franchise says HIIIIIIIIIIII.

    In Flash's case it was tossing away everyone for Barry. So like with Green Lantern-it was there must only be ONE who everybody must worship. Even if it means alienating every other fan they could find.

    How many Titans got killed or butchered in events???
    Hotspot was bought back to bash the Titans in Sideways and get killed looking like Trayvon Martin.
    How many Titans have still not seen?
    DC allowed a trashing or marginalizing how many Titans who held long running (or books that lasted 3 years)? Nightwing, Kyle, Wally, Jaime, Conner, Bart & Tim. 1000 solo issues among those guys.

    If Marvel had not buried Gen X, New Mutants, X-Men Academy, Young Avengers, New Warriors and Avenger Academy-they would OWN the teen hero market.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    The Titans franchise says HIIIIIIIIIIII.

    In Flash's case it was tossing away everyone for Barry. So like with Green Lantern-it was there must only be ONE who everybody must worship. Even if it means alienating every other fan they could find.

    How many Titans got killed or butchered in events???
    Hotspot was bought back to bash the Titans in Sideways and get killed looking like Trayvon Martin.
    How many Titans have still not seen?
    DC allowed a trashing or marginalizing how many Titans who held long running (or books that lasted 3 years)? Nightwing, Kyle, Wally, Jaime, Conner, Bart & Tim. 1000 solo issues among those guys.

    If Marvel had not buried Gen X, New Mutants, X-Men Academy, Young Avengers, New Warriors and Avenger Academy-they would OWN the teen hero market.
    Absolutely NO doubt the Titans were screwed.
    As I mentioned in my original post, there's a damn good argument they were worse done by than the Flash.
    It hasn't been just the original Titans either. The Jurgens version have also been butchered, dismembered or shunted into limbo.
    God knows where Red Star is.
    Vic was shoehorned into the JLA for reasons that I can't fathom.
    Kory made it to the New 52, but as an orange swimsuit model who had no personality other than wanting to hump the nearest bloke's leg.
    Roy also made it, but again not as the guy readers knew. No Lian anywhere. All character progression flushed away.
    Garth seemed to make it to the New 52 as well, but again - almost unrecognisable and definitely not the character we knew.
    The less said about Donna the better. I swear to God DC must enjoy f***ing up the character.

    There's a VERY good reason Titans fans have been upset for the last decade or so.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  10. #25
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    It's kind of hard to peg the Titans as specifically screwed in the 2010s when they were also constantly screwed for the entirety of the 2000s.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Absolutely NO doubt the Titans were screwed.
    As I mentioned in my original post, there's a damn good argument they were worse done by than the Flash.
    It hasn't been just the original Titans either. The Jurgens version have also been butchered, dismembered or shunted into limbo.
    God knows where Red Star is.
    Vic was shoehorned into the JLA for reasons that I can't fathom.
    Kory made it to the New 52, but as an orange swimsuit model who had no personality other than wanting to hump the nearest bloke's leg.
    Roy also made it, but again not as the guy readers knew. No Lian anywhere. All character progression flushed away.
    Garth seemed to make it to the New 52 as well, but again - almost unrecognisable and definitely not the character we knew.
    The less said about Donna the better. I swear to God DC must enjoy f***ing up the character.

    There's a VERY good reason Titans fans have been upset for the last decade or so.
    As I said in a previous tread, this is making me wonder if DC Comics is "Anti Legacy and Millenials".

  12. #27
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    The issues with the Titans arguably started at least as far back as Graduation Day and the ensuing new status quo, I think. It really did a great job of highlighting how a lot of those characters had essentially lost their niche now that they were no longer the "kids" of the DC Universe and were supplanted by Tim Drake's generation. Nightwing escaped this, as did Arsenal for at least a little while, but you can see DC never quite figured out what to do with Garth or Donna after this.

  13. #28
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    Yeah Titans wasn't really screwed in the 2010s specifically. They been screwed since at least 2003 when Didio started making his mark. Editorial messed with Jurgens' and Grayson's runs pretty badly too in the 90s but the A TITAN DIES stuff and specific popular members getting dragged through the dirt didn't start until Didio got here.

    Now Flash and JSA imploding because Didio/editorial said so, yeah that is specifically 2010s.

    Flash could've supported two books--Barry and Wally--but they chose to pretty much ban Wally beyond cameos and a short story in a holiday special before saying he didn't exist anymore. And hell, JSA DID support two books before Didio decided they're a "retired concept".

  14. #29
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    Titans were going down the moment Perez left.

  15. #30
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    Everything that any FLASH fan could have wanted has been delivered on a silver platter and people are *still* bitching?

    That's it. I'm quitting superhero comics and going into politics. It's less contentious and more forgiving.

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