Do You Want See A Batman and Robin Movie Again? Can It Work?

[Amadeus Arkham]

I love the Batman and Robin relationship in the comics, and I really think the dynamic could work in live-action. We haven’t seen a Batman and Robin dynamic in a live-action movie since Batman And Robin(1997) which was over 23 years ago. I really want to know how many of you agree with me? Or do you think Batman works best cinematically alone? And there doesn’t need to be a Dynamic duo movie and it can’t work?

[Blue22]

I would love to see another live action Batman and Robin. But first DC needs to figure out what the fuck they're doing with their live action Batmen lol

Before we get to Robin, I need them to pick a Batman, pick a continuity, and stick with it. Then after like two movies we can start talking Robins.

[Vakanai]

But first DC needs to figure out what the fuck they're doing with their live action Batmen lol

They do - Affleck seems to be on his way out (or at least all rumors are Flash will be his last Bat-outing), Keaton will be the mentor to one or more of the younger heroes in the DCEU in a sort of old man Bruce from Batman Beyond role (smart money is on him showing up in Batgirl), and Pattinson will be their solo movie Batman. Just because WB will have more than 1 actor portraying Batman doesn't mean they don't have a plan.

Before we get to Robin, I need them to pick a Batman, pick a continuity, and stick with it. Then after like two movies we can start talking Robins.

Why should they? Why do we need only 1 Batman or 1 continuity?

[Vakanai]

For an animated movie, sure. For live action? No. And it has nothing to do with "realism" - nothing about Batman is realistic. But having a kid sidekick would by necessity force them to lighten up the tone of a live action movie more than I want from my Batman movie - we've already got the lighthearted action comedy angle covered by the entire MCU, so I'd like Batman films to be a bit darker and grittier just to provide a balance or counter to that. As much as people like to rag on the "dark and gritty and edgy" crap here, it really composes a too small portion of the superhero film landscape currently - and good/well done darker superhero films comprise an even smaller portion of that pie. And don't tell me that adding Robin doesn't exclude the film from being dark, because we know that's not likely to be true - it may hold in the comics, but trying to do the kid sidekick in a film that dark for a mainstream audience won't fly (and yes I know Hit Girl in Kick-Ass, but it wasn't mainstream really, it wasn't a famous property, it wasn't made by a major studio, and it was before the MCU came to completely dominate and define the genre for most people). And yes, I've seen season one of Titans where Robin got pretty dark and gritty at times - but a streaming show that aired originally on a niche comic book streaming site is far from being mainstream.

Keeping Batman solo allows them to keep his films darker, and there's a lack of good dark superhero films as is. If anything, with Disney acquiring Fox and the rights to X-Men and Deadpool and Blade, that allowance for darker superhero films is only going to shrink even further. I love the MCU as much as the next guy, but I also like variety, there needs to be more than just action comedies in the genre. And I don't see Robin entering the movie and WB not wanting it to go lighter. We can argue over it, but I just don't see it. We need to allow the opportunity for films like The Dark Knight and Logan and Joker and what The Batman looks to be.

[Frontier]

For an animated movie, sure. For live action? No. And it has nothing to do with "realism" - nothing about Batman is realistic. But having a kid sidekick would by necessity force them to lighten up the tone of a live action movie more than I want from my Batman movie - we've already got the lighthearted action comedy angle covered by the entire MCU, so I'd like Batman films to be a bit darker and grittier just to provide a balance or counter to that. As much as people like to rag on the "dark and gritty and edgy" crap here, it really composes a too small portion of the superhero film landscape currently - and good/well done darker superhero films comprise an even smaller portion of that pie. And don't tell me that adding Robin doesn't exclude the film from being dark, because we know that's not likely to be true - it may hold in the comics, but trying to do the kid sidekick in a film that dark for a mainstream audience won't fly (and yes I know Hit Girl in Kick-Ass, but it wasn't mainstream really, it wasn't a famous property, it wasn't made by a major studio, and it was before the MCU came to completely dominate and define the genre for most people). And yes, I've seen season one of Titans where Robin got pretty dark and gritty at times - but a streaming show that aired originally on a niche comic book streaming site is far from being mainstream.

Keeping Batman solo allows them to keep his films darker, and there's a lack of good dark superhero films as is. If anything, with Disney acquiring Fox and the rights to X-Men and Deadpool and Blade, that allowance for darker superhero films is only going to shrink even further. I love the MCU as much as the next guy, but I also like variety, there needs to be more than just action comedies in the genre. And I don't see Robin entering the movie and WB not wanting it to go lighter. We can argue over it, but I just don't see it. We need to allow the opportunity for films like The Dark Knight and Logan and Joker and what The Batman looks to be.

I don't think Robin precludes a Batman film from still being serious given the precedent in the Arkham games, cartoons, animated movies, and yeah, Titans because I think that's still valid no matter where it first premiered. Just having one character with a more lighthearted or contrasting viewpoint doesn't necessarily need to take over or derail the tone in my opinion.

Of course I also don't think Batman films need to be kept as quintessentially dark moving forward. If anything I want variety in Batman films.

[Vakanai]

I don't think Robin precludes a Batman film from still being serious given the precedent in the Arkham games, cartoons, animated movies, and yeah, Titans because I think that's still valid no matter where it first premiered. Just having one character with a more lighthearted or contrasting viewpoint doesn't necessarily need to take over or derail the tone in my opinion.

Sorry, but I disagree - the Arkham games are video games and gamers tend to like darker/more violent anyways, plus again different medium than live action. By cartoons I assume you mean the animated movies aimed at an older niche audience, which again is different - if you mean series, then I really disagree because I don't consider any of the cartoons that dark. And no, I don't consider Titans valid, it's still a very niche series with a relatively small audience, smaller than a CW show I'm gonna guess - never mind that it's post his time as Batman's sidekick. Sure, you're right in that it doesn't necessarily need to take over or derail the tone - but even though it doesn't necessarily need to, odds are that WB execs will disagree. Live action blockbuster movies are much, much bigger deals than everything else you've listed combined, so there's a lot more hands getting in the pie, a lot more chefs in the kitchen - basically the odds of some executive or producer or whoever saying "We can't show a kid in danger and have such a dark tone, it will bother the audience too much! We can only do one or the other, so lighten it up!" goes up tremendously. So yeah, there's no reason it can't be done, but there's every reason to believe that it won't be.

Of course I also don't think Batman films need to be kept as quintessentially dark moving forward. If anything I want variety in Batman films.

Of course the films don't need to be kept so dark, I'm clearly only speaking of my own preference, my own hopes and desires, yours will clearly differ from mine. However, I disagree with the last bit - you may want variety in Batman films, but I want variety in the superhero genre as a whole, and if Batman becomes lighter we'd lose out on variety, because the vast majority of these films are already lighter. Most superhero films are either part of the MCU, or are trying to copy the MCU, so most follow the quippy action comedy route. The films that differ from that lightness are a super teeny tiny minority to begin with, and it will only shrink further with the loss of Fox getting bought by Disney. That makes Batman and related properties one of the only alternatives to that lighter fare we have. So while you might prefer a lighter take on Batman, and while that might provide variety to Batman films as a whole, it'd just further cement the lack of variety of the genre itself even further. That means if someone wants a darker tone superhero movie, they'd have to look into some really obscure and mostly unknown indie films like Super, Defendor, and...the fact I ran out of list at two kind of illustrates the problem.

[exile001]

For an animated movie, sure. For live action? No. And it has nothing to do with "realism" - nothing about Batman is realistic. But having a kid sidekick would by necessity force them to lighten up the tone of a live action movie more than I want from my Batman movie - we've already got the lighthearted action comedy angle covered by the entire MCU, so I'd like Batman films to be a bit darker and grittier just to provide a balance or counter to that.

Adding a younger side-kick doesn't immediately give you Batman Forever or a Marvel-style film. I can work but would require a bit more finesse to balance correctly.

Titans has a tone fitting for the Snyder-verse and features a perfectly fine Robin, both the older Dick and then Jason. Dismissing it as a niche streaming property doesn't disprove that it works.

Personally, while I'm very excited for The Batman, I am kind of tired of overly violent and dark Batman movies. It's boring and expected now and I think adding Robin would be a chance to do something different and more complex with the character. Maybe he could even go a whole movie without killing someone.

[Vakanai]

Adding a younger side-kick doesn't immediately give you Batman Forever or a Marvel-style film. I can work but would require a bit more finesse to balance correctly.

I know that it can work, like I said it's not a matter of if it can be done but whether it's likely to be done. And I just don't think they're likely to add Robin and not go much lighter with it.

Titans has a tone fitting for the Snyder-verse and features a perfectly fine Robin, both the older Dick and then Jason. Dismissing it as a niche streaming property doesn't disprove that it works.

Again, not saying it can't work, and Titans proves it can, but it's still fair to dismiss it because naturally a niche streaming property has less oversight and more freedom than a film ever will.

Personally, while I'm very excited for The Batman, I am kind of tired of overly violent and dark Batman movies. It's boring and expected now and I think adding Robin would be a chance to do something different and more complex with the character. Maybe he could even go a whole movie without killing someone.

You say that like we've had a ton of dark Batman movies - sure they've all been dark this millennium but it's only been 4, 2 a decade. The 00's had Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. The 10's had The Dark Knight Rises and Batman v Superman (the JL movies are too much an ensemble to count). And the first three honestly aren't even that violent - intense maybe, but not that violent. Nolan's trilogy was no more violent than any MCU movie, it's just the tone was darker. Now Batman v Superman, yeah, the warehouse scene alone hoo-boy...awesome, but very violent that fight.

Again, I guess it's just because I'm thinking of it in terms of superhero films rather than just Batman films - when I'm getting soooo much lighter fare already, having just one reliably "dark" hero is the more refreshing change of pace for me. We're not really hurting for happy smiling heroes at the moment you've got to admit. Dark hero films are relatively few, and honestly most haven't been done well. In the past ten years we've had The Dark Knight Rises, Kick-Ass 2, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Deadpool, Deadpool 2, Logan, Venom, BOP, and the Snyder Cut. And only like 4/5 of those 10 were good - 5/6 out of 11 if we want to include Joker. Then we've got over 20 MCU films (I'm not going to try and do the math on which ones were done in the past ten years), a few non-MCU Spider-Mans, some Fox X-Men, the 2 Wonder Womans, Aquaman, Shazam, and arguably the Whedon Cut of JL on the lighter side. And honestly even that feels like a cheat because Deadpool 1 & 2 and BOP are really light in tone films just get lumped into dark cause R rated violence. And then you got the first Suicide Squad somewhere in the middle of the light/dark but definitely in the not a good movie camp.

The genre's kind of light hearted heavy right now, which isn't bad but I'd prefer a bit more balance. To me Batman kind of helps off set some of that mountain of bright cheery hero films a bit.

[king81992]

Adding a younger side-kick doesn't immediately give you Batman Forever or a Marvel-style film. I can work but would require a bit more finesse to balance correctly.

Titans has a tone fitting for the Snyder-verse and features a perfectly fine Robin, both the older Dick and then Jason. Dismissing it as a niche streaming property doesn't disprove that it works.

Personally, while I'm very excited for The Batman, I am kind of tired of overly violent and dark Batman movies. It's boring and expected now and I think adding Robin would be a chance to do something different and more complex with the character. Maybe he could even go a whole movie without killing someone.

The problem with the Titans TV show isn't that its on a 'niche streaming service', the problem is that it was never good.

[DevilBat66]

For an animated movie, sure. For live action? No. And it has nothing to do with "realism" - nothing about Batman is realistic. But having a kid sidekick would by necessity force them to lighten up the tone of a live action movie more than I want from my Batman movie - we've already got the lighthearted action comedy angle covered by the entire MCU, so I'd like Batman films to be a bit darker and grittier just to provide a balance or counter to that. As much as people like to rag on the "dark and gritty and edgy" crap here, it really composes a too small portion of the superhero film landscape currently - and good/well done darker superhero films comprise an even smaller portion of that pie. And don't tell me that adding Robin doesn't exclude the film from being dark, because we know that's not likely to be true - it may hold in the comics, but trying to do the kid sidekick in a film that dark for a mainstream audience won't fly (and yes I know Hit Girl in Kick-Ass, but it wasn't mainstream really, it wasn't a famous property, it wasn't made by a major studio, and it was before the MCU came to completely dominate and define the genre for most people). And yes, I've seen season one of Titans where Robin got pretty dark and gritty at times - but a streaming show that aired originally on a niche comic book streaming site is far from being mainstream.

Keeping Batman solo allows them to keep his films darker, and there's a lack of good dark superhero films as is. If anything, with Disney acquiring Fox and the rights to X-Men and Deadpool and Blade, that allowance for darker superhero films is only going to shrink even further. I love the MCU as much as the next guy, but I also like variety, there needs to be more than just action comedies in the genre. And I don't see Robin entering the movie and WB not wanting it to go lighter. We can argue over it, but I just don't see it. We need to allow the opportunity for films like The Dark Knight and Logan and Joker and what The Batman looks to be.

Pretty much exactly "this".

I dig Robin.

In comics and animated flicks and, yes, in the goofy 60's show I grew up with.

I just don't think it really works in a live action serious setting for pretty much the reasons Vakanai has stated throughout the thread.

[phonogram12]

Honestly, as far as realism and tone is concerned (not necessarily the same thing, mind you), I don't see why he can't work. If you have him start at 15, that's very nearly when most males are nearly fully grown, anyway (there's a reason most people don't grow in height between the license they get when they're 16 and when they're renewing it for the umpteenth time in their 20s). As far as tone, if anyone here is familiar with the original tv show Veronica Mars, that was a tv show about a teen sleuth whose cases included the murder of her best friend, a bus full of high school kids getting killed when a bomb went off in their school bus, a secret society where congressmen killed people and threw them in wood shredders at their cabins, and her own rape. Just because a property includes a teenager in a prominent role does not mean it's going to be all prom dates and first kisses.

[JackJustMetMartin]

Of course it can work, anything can if done right. I'd love to see a Batman and Robin film, and I don't really understand why DC and WB seem to want to ruin the IP of Robin.

If you think of superhero sidekicks, you think of Robin. If you see a yellow R, you think of Robin. It's actually amazing how ingrained Robin is with the general public, utilizing that should be a priority for DC but for some reason they won't.

[InfamousBG]

Yes a Batman & Robin movie could work. They just need the right timing.

I would love to see Jason Todd or Damian in a film. Hell id like to see all the Robin in a film if done right.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm not a big Robin/Batgirl fan. So I rather see Batman team up with other heroes more. But I'd watch it if it looks cool.

[adrikito]

I would had liked some years ago but..

With Affleck out I do not care anymore