People hated Heroes in Crisis, has that change?

[TheRay]

Putting aside this is one question on quora that doesn't reflect the majority of Flash fans, we can't even tell if the person asking this is a Flash fanas opposed to someone who read about .

Once again I’m going to ask you, what. The. F. Are you talking about? You’re either moving goalposts or making up stuff that nobody said. Go respond to somebody who is actually saying the things you’re talking about or just post them in the thread, but don’t quote me if you’re not even reading what I wrote.

[Agent Z]

Once again I’m going to ask you, what. The. F. Are you talking about? You’re either moving goalposts or making up stuff that nobody said. Go respond to somebody who is actually saying the things you’re talking about or just post them in the thread, but don’t quote me if you’re not even reading what I wrote.

This is pretty rich coming from someone who's accused people who don't like the story of hating it because Wally wasn't invincible, something no one has said and Wally's power level wasn't even brought up as a reason for it being disliked.

[SiegePerilous02]

Nope. Readers have noted (over and over) many problems of this story that have nothing to do with how they treated Wally. It has been said over and over. If this story had original characters only the plot would still be weak as hell with more holes in it than swiss cheese.

It's been cited as being very inept at the themes it attempts to tackle, especially the mental health topic. I think that would be the case even if it was original characters like you say.

Harley being a God Mode Sue who takes out the Trinity is also bad fanfic levels of dumb.

[deadman322]

personally, I think it would have worked a lot better if had a more important character like batman be the murderer. think how crazy that would be, so many interesting avenues writers could go down with that.

also wally being the murderer was super obvious, even before the book came out.

[Rend20]

Nope. Readers have noted (over and over) many problems of this story that have nothing to do with how they treated Wally.

Did the series itself ever explain the La'gaan and Grnarrk death scenes?

Because they clearly didn't fit with the "it was an accident where they all died at the same time" explanation at the end. What happened at Sanctuary was the catalyst for the events, and if the story couldn't even keep the most basic of things straight, then I don't see how it could be considered a well written story.

[TheRay]

This is pretty rich coming from someone who's accused people who don't like the story of hating it because Wally wasn't invincible, something no one has said and Wally's power level wasn't even brought up as a reason for it being disliked.

Pretty rich coming from the guy who is blatantly lying and ignoring evidence because it doesn’t support his narrative. You’ve been wrong about literally everything you’ve posted thus far and you have the gall to say anything is rich. “Accused people who don’t like the story” - I think you’re just taking this entire thread personally because I haven’t said anything directly to anybody. All of my statements have been generalities.

[Menacer]

Even if you take away all the meta complaints about how it impacts certain characters going forward, Heroes in Crisis is an atrociously written and conveyed book. It doesn't tackle any of the important subject matter well, it doesn't handle a single character in the entire story with any grace or dignity, and the narrative structure itself is all over the place. It leans heavily on single panel gotcha confessionals which are the thinnest, weakest, dumbest takes on the characters or it bloats itself with spending 9 panels to stare at Barbara in a skin tight suit as she shows off her bullet wounds, again completely ignoring who Barbara is as a character to highlight the weakest part of her character arc. Because that's all HiC is, a shallow, pathetic, awful take on mental health when that was the only selling point. The murder mystery stuff is awful and even when it uses the time travel mcguffin to "fix" the nonsensical plot it creates another plothole to do it.

It's bad. Not just because it wrote Wally so poorly -- because it wrote EVERY character so poorly. It just did it the worst to Wally whose fans had already suffered so much that their YEARS of whining was now vindicated to the larger audience, so the "Why does DC hate Wally so much?" complaint gained traction outside of Wally fans. That became the biggest deal of the comic, but the comic itself is still downright awful in every way. Even the high quality art is abashed by the context -- a bunch of sexually provocative images about people in pain, or corpses, or what have you.



Ah, so that's why you like Heroes In Crisis. Makes this whole thread make a lot more sense.

Would you have liked Heroes in Crisis more if it turned Barry into a psychopathic criminal responsible for the deaths of other heroes, ruining all of his relationships and his status as a hero? I mean it's such a good story to you, would it have been better if it was about Barry coming to the realization that he will never meet or love his children and going insane from it?

Honestly no it would change my opinion.

Im a huge Superman fan and ive never had an issue when he's turned into the villian.

Im into good stories

And we could argue hic isnt particularly a good story. But its lead to for me a huge amount of good stories...

Honestly 90% or more stories I read... about 100 trades a year.

Im just not like the other readers on cbr. Ive only really read for about 5ish years steady and Im just along for a good ride. I enjoy the majority of what I read.

And no ones obligated to like hic cause Ive enjoyed it and the many stories that followed that examined the wally mystery.

Its rare I dont like the books Im reading.

You havent discovered anything. I didnt care about wally because I hadnt read a lot of stories about wally. Not cause I hated him.

And as for everyone's remark that hic disrespects mental health with a to shallow approach. I was diagnosed in 2005 with bipolar. And been hospitalized many times...

True hic doesnt dig deep but from first hand experience I know how serious mental health can effect ones perception... being disappeared from reality. No kids. Totally messed with Wally imo. And it made his powers wonky and he lost it.

As for the Harley bit.

I never never read that as the trinity got stomped.

They let her escape. At that point they didnt even know if she was guilty and they wanted to see things out... least thats how I read it.

[Menacer]

I don't get it. You say that when you got into comics Kyle was GL yet Barry Allen is your Flash. It doesn't make any sense. Perhaps you didn't care for Wally because you didn't care to reae anything about him. He had his amazing journey to follow. It's not Heroes in Crisis. That was his character assassination.

Yes correct I hadnt read anything about him or cared to. Also I didnt collect enough as a kid anyway.

Just turns out this hic book and the series of books that have followed which are exploring these mysteries has been my intro to the character and I'm very interested in him now.

Enough that I may go dig up earlier stuff!

[Johnrevenge]

I liked the original concept of Heroes in Crisis, but I agree with the majority. Even without the unnecesary character assasination of Wally West, Heroes in Crisis is the worst thing that DC has published this decade.

And all the stories that fixed all the crap they threw at Wally, doesn't make HiC better, it clearly shows that it was a terrible story from the begining.

[TheRay]

If you hated it, that’s fine, but can we at least let the people who enjoyed it enjoy it?

[Hol]

If you hated it, that’s fine, but can we at least let the people who enjoyed it enjoy it?

No way Jose.

[Robanker]

If you hated it, that’s fine, but can we at least let the people who enjoyed it enjoy it?

Sure, but this thread is soliciting the opinions of people initially dissatisfied and asking if time has changed that. The rest is discourse regarding the OP's question.

It's fair game to criticize the book and arguments defending it if the thesis for the thread is "haters, you still hating and why?

There's nothing stopping fans from making a Heroes in Crisis appreciation thread other than the usual trend for all appreciation threads to turn into repositories for salty complaints about the subject not getting fair treatment. We're all guilty of that.

[skyvolt2000]

If you hated it, that’s fine, but can we at least let the people who enjoyed it enjoy it?

What is stopping you?

I mean the title of the thread is asking for opinions.

[Menacer]

Sure, but this thread is soliciting the opinions of people initially dissatisfied and asking if time has changed that. The rest is discourse regarding the OP's question.

It's fair game to criticize the book and arguments defending it if the thesis for the thread is "haters, you still hating and why?

There's nothing stopping fans from making a Heroes in Crisis appreciation thread other than the usual trend for all appreciation threads to turn into repositories for salty complaints about the subject not getting fair treatment. We're all guilty of that.

Yah I dont mind that the vast majority disliked it and still do.

The spirit of the thread from my mind was just how much excitement as a reader I was experiencing in reading Wally's and Roy's continuing adventures from HIC...

Particularly how front and center there arcs are in Infinite Frontier 0-2 and secret files.

I was just really excited and having fun.

Sorry to hear the majority of the responders just dont like hic and the arcs that have resulted.

Its not a big deal and no contention or disgruntled feelings from me.

[Dred]

There's a vocal minority on the internet that sort of creates this bubble where their opinions are treated as fact.
Most of the time when you speak to actual people at comic shops or cons they will actually say things like Infinite Crisis, Cry for Justice, or Countdown is what got them into comics
Obviously those stories are not held with any type of esteem though so you have to take that for what its worth.
Heroes in Crisis has amazing art and the premise is not a bad one
The only fault fans can really craft around the story is what happened to Wally in the story

It was the type of fan reaction that I've come to expect from the internet fans and they didn't let me down. I mean in the grand scheme of things Wally was left no worse off than many other DC characters who have been subject to bad writing or status quo changes.
He was even given his redemption story arc right after the series ended and barely spent any time in jail for his crimes. Then DC preceded to retcon everything away so that Wally was no longer culpable for any of his actions.

All of these types of things ironically serve to make the story worse in my mind and pointless but the Wally fans feel like the story was bad to begin with so this was just DC making a very good looking comic book that meant nothing.

The retcons and salvaging of Wally are symptoms of the story being bad. Even King walked back on that one.

This is pretty rich coming from someone who's accused people who don't like the story of hating it because Wally wasn't invincible, something no one has said and Wally's power level wasn't even brought up as a reason for it being disliked.

If anything, one of the big story telling complaints is how Wally does something that's stupid and outside of his skillset, the opposite of powerlevel wanking him.

"How'd Wally perform computer programming feats that should frankly be impossible, on an AI created by Bruce Wayne, one of the smartest men in the world?" "He's very fast."

Or, like, how'd Wally trick the world's greatest detective and his uncle Barry, a genius forensics scientist?

well he's very fast and, uh, knows how Batman and Barry look at crime scenes

It was not good writing.