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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Default People hated Heroes in Crisis, has that change?

    When Heroes in Crisis hit there was a massive amount of hate thrown its way. Character assassination of Wally being the main point of contention.

    But with the revelation of The Price and Other Stories, Tales from the Dark Multiverse, Flash Forward and what I think is particularly exceptional stories in Infinite Crisis 0, 1, 2 and The Secret Files.


    Are your opinions changing?

    For me Wally coming up as a murder was an exciting plot point that I thought DC could get pretty creative with...

    Turns out what they've done is way more exciting and imaginative then I ever thought.

    I'm particularly interested...Has anyones views changed from hating the story point to becoming intrigued by the ongoing story or flat out loving the ongoing plot.

    I'm interested in some polite discussion!?
    Last edited by Menacer; 08-01-2021 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #2
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Yes, it has changed - now some people just loathe it.

  3. #3
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    I hate it.
    Detest it.
    Loathe it.
    King was in such a hurry to shit all over Wally West he forgot to bother offering a coherent storyline.
    It was originally offered as a murder mystery and a look at superhero PTSD. We got none of it.
    But hey, the art was nice.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I hate it.
    Detest it.
    Loathe it.
    King was in such a hurry to shit all over Wally West he forgot to bother offering a coherent storyline.
    It was originally offered as a murder mystery and a look at superhero PTSD. We got none of it.
    But hey, the art was nice.
    Have you guys been following the stories that I listed that expand on this wally storyline???

    Or you only read HiC and just dont want to explore further?

  5. #5
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yes, it has changed - now some people just loathe it.
    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Loathe it.
    Wow, the very next post - called it!

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Wow, the very next post - called it!
    This isnt useful or polite discussion.

    This is more along trolling lines.

    Do you follow Dc?

    The over all series of events and Crisis? Particularly new52, rebirth, metal, no justice, justice League by ss, heroes in Crisis, the price, doom war, hell arisen, death metal, future state, Infinite frontier series's...

    Are you following the story or just adding useless hater comments?

    I was hoping for more coherent intelligent points...

    Have you been reading the books?

  7. #7
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    What they did after HiC seems more like a reaction to its reactions, then planned fruition. Flash Forward was clearly last minute filler to buy time so that they can try to fit things into Snyder's Metal plans. And pretty much everything was prepping for 5G, which was untimely nixed last minute and they had to quickly come up with alternatives. So honestly my opinion has really changed. I think they liked the idea of the story, but didn't really know where it would it go, and has since been trying to sweep it under the rug and appease who they can.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-01-2021 at 11:47 PM.

  8. #8
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    This isnt useful or polite discussion.

    This is more along trolling lines.

    Do you follow Dc?

    The over all series of events and Crisis? Particularly new52, rebirth, metal, no justice, justice League by ss, heroes in Crisis, the price, doom war, hell arisen, death metal, future state, Infinite frontier series's...

    Are you following the story or just adding useless hater comments?

    I was hoping for more coherent intelligent points...

    Have you been reading the books?
    I buy several trades a year, some in continuity, some not, following reviews mostly to avoid the stuff I wouldn't like - I've no local comic book shop, and shipping and handling through Amazon is too pricey (I don't order enough to find Prime worthwhile). Limited funds, so I really just get the wow books everyone talks about as good - otherwise I use this forum to keep up on the news and going-ons. However, something I should note - this isn't trolling, nor is this a useless hater comment. It was a useless comment, but trolling and hating it was not - it's humor. Might not have landed with you, but it amused me and no offense was meant. I'm not going to apologize for it either, because it is so harmless and innocent that if it did offend I feel it speaks more to you. Please lighten up, no thread on this forum is 100% useful debate. Sometimes we're going to post trash, or little jokes we think are funny, or just vent our frustrations. And as long as no one is insulting and everyone remains civil, that is fine and expected. You don't have to find my posts funny as I intended them to be, but if you think they were meant as trolling or rude then you really need to check out the rest of the internet where people gladly spew vile at each other for the fun of it. But hey, you called me out - no, I haven't read all these books, I'm not in a position to follow every book and stay current on every new issue's revelation - I guess my opinion and posts are all just shit then.

    Edit: Also, I didn't mean anything by my post, but I believe you meant yours - read very much like a "I'm a true DC fan, you're not" slight against me, so I'm bowing out of your thread and you need not worry about me responding to you in any other thread again - clearly we've nothing to say to each other.
    Last edited by Vakanai; 08-02-2021 at 12:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    What they did after HiC seems more like a reaction to its reactions, then planned fruition. Flash Forward was clearly last minute filler to buy time so that they can try to fit things into Snyder's Metal plans. And pretty much everything was prepping for 5G, which was untimely nixed last minute and they had to quickly come up with alternatives. So honestly my opinion has really changed. I think they liked the idea of the story, but didn't really know where it would it go, and has since been trying to sweep it under the rug and appease who they can.
    Yet Infinite Crisis 1 and 2 issues and the secret files clearly are still interested in the stories and these are literally coming out as we speak.

    I may agree that they are reactionary... but it all just seems so damn exciting that I dont really care whether its preplanned or more on the fly creativity

    Either way thanks

  10. #10
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I buy several trades a year, some in continuity, some not, following reviews mostly to avoid the stuff I wouldn't like - I've no local comic book shop, and shipping and handling through Amazon is too pricey (I don't order enough to find Prime worthwhile). Limited funds, so I really just get the wow books everyone talks about as good - otherwise I use this forum to keep up on the news and going-ons. However, something I should note - this isn't trolling, nor is this a useless hater comment. It was a useless comment, but trolling and hating it was not - it's humor. Might not have landed with you, but it amused me and no offense was meant. I'm not going to apologize for it either, because it is so harmless and innocent that if it did offend I feel it speaks more to you. Please lighten up, no thread on this forum is 100% useful debate. Sometimes we're going to post trash, or little jokes we think are funny, or just vent our frustrations. And as long as no one is insulting and everyone remains civil, that is fine and expected. You don't have to find my posts funny as I intended them to be, but if you think they were meant as trolling or rude then you really need to check out the rest of the internet where people gladly spew vile at each other for the fun of it. But hey, you called me out - no, I haven't read all these books, I'm not in a position to follow every book and stay current on every new issue's revelation - I guess my opinion and posts are all just shit then.

    Edit: Also, I didn't mean anything by my post, but I believe you meant yours - read very much like a "I'm a true DC fan, you're not" slight against me, so I'm bowing out of your thread and you need not worry about me responding to you in any other thread again - clearly we've nothing to say to each other.
    I made no remark about true dc fans. But I was specifically asking if people were following the lines of the story up to current publication.

    I read about 100 trades per year. Yes 2 trades per week is common. So I follow a lot of the convoluted DC Universe... so my view will differ from someone that reads less.

    My comparison would be how impactful would only reading the final chapter of Lotr Return of the King be?... not very.

    Or only watching the final minutes of the 6th sense.. meaingless

    Comic books have plotlines that extend 20 or 30 years easily... I was a child when Superman Died. And coast city was destroyed. And hal became parallax... and a teenager when final night happened and a full grown adult when hal Jordan's rebirth happened...

    For me comics are interesting because long form plots can play out and be discovered by the various writers just as much by us readers...

    If your just in it for the 1 off stories your experience for better or worse will be very different then those that read hundreds and hundreds of issues and dozens and dozens of trades.

    Your allowed to make jokes but essentially 3 posts in a row of zero useful content prompted me to remark that i felt it was "along the lines of trolling "

    I was definitely not hurt or especially miffed in anyway.

    Your final response is highly dramatic. Personally I dont live by such ultimate type declarations.

    Best of wishes reading, this is just a fun light hearted hobby for me.
    Last edited by Menacer; 08-02-2021 at 12:32 AM.

  11. #11
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    Honestly I think you could have done Flash Forward (and therefore Death Metal) without HiC, Wally didn't need to kill a bunch of characters and leak the confidential interviews of his fellow heroes to search the multiverse for his missing children.

    When it comes to Metal, the whole thing was for my taste drawn out way to long and got to convoluted in the end. To really excite me.

    And when it comes to HiC it self, it was bad book, and nothing that came out of it really changes that it was bad.

  12. #12
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    I made no remark about true dc fans. But I was specifically asking if people were following the lines of the story up to current publication.
    "Do you follow DC?" felt like true fanning. If it wasn't meant as such then sorry - but I took issue with being called a troll for something I truly meant in good humor, so it may have colored my reading of your post.

    I read about 100 trades per year. Yes 2 trades per week is common. So I follow a lot of the convoluted DC Universe... so my view will differ from someone that reads less.
    Yeah, I can not afford that - I range at 5 to 10 trades a year, and a lot of that is either older classics no longer in continuity, out of continuity elseworld type stuff, or otherwise in continuity but easy to read and digest by themselves minis and story arcs. Since my funds are limited, I have to be very picky over which titles I get - if I could read it all, I would. Doesn't mean I don't do my best to try and follow what's currently going on with the universe and characters I love though. Clearly there's only so much you can get from reading this forum and wikis and other sites, so I'm not as informed on the topics as I'd like to be, but I still have my opinions. And like I said, I can't resist being a bit cheeky and inserting humor sometimes, but I've never been called a troll for such so it rubbed me wrong. Like I said, you can't possibly expect to have a discussion here that doesn't occasionally dip into either a grudge match shouting contest or humor.

    My comparison would be how impactful would only reading the final chapter of Lotr Return of the King be?... not very.
    My comparison would be reading the reviews, checking out the Cliff Notes, and doing a quick google or wiki search. You might not absorb the material, and you might not be able to recall the facts later after the test, but you know in general if it's the sort of thing you'd like to read or not.


    Comic books have plotlines that extend 20 or 30 years easily... I was a child when Superman Died. And coast city was destroyed. And hal became parallax... and a teenager when final night happened and a full grown adult when hal Jordan's rebirth happened...
    This bit I disagree with. Comic books sometimes reference plotlines that happened 20 or 30 years ago, like Barbara Gordon with The Killing Joke, but that's not the same thing as a ongoing plotline. Batgirl of Burnside wasn't the next chapter in TKJ, and to make that claim is kind of ridiculous. Jon Kent joining the Legion of Superheroes isn't a part of the Death of Superman. It may share continuity, but continuity isn't the same thing as a plot.

    For me comics are interesting because long form plots can play out and be discovered by the various writers just as much by us readers...
    Yes, for you. But not everyone reads comic books for the same reasons. I can't follow the long form plots, I can't catch every continuity story. Wish I could, but I do not have that option. There's limits on how much money I can spend on what all I can do in a day. Doesn't mean I enjoy comics less than you just because I get to read fewer trades. For me comics are interesting because I enjoy the stories and characters. I don't need to read decades worth, I just need to read whichever book I got now. If it's self contained, if I can go in only knowing the basics and not feel lost, and enjoy reading Superman besting Lex, then I'm happy.

    If your just in it for the 1 off stories your experience for better or worse will be very different then those that read hundreds and hundreds of issues and dozens and dozens of trades.
    Yes, but it still comes across as "true fan" when you put it that way. And I wouldn't really say the experience is different so much as some references and easter eggs might not get picked up on. Frankly, no matter how many comics one reads, I'm in the camp that if you need to have read an earlier or later story in order to appreciate a different story, then that story wasn't a good story to read to begin with.

    Your allowed to make jokes but essentially 3 posts in a row of zero useful content prompted me to remark that i felt it was "along the lines of trolling "
    Three posts? It was two. One where I quipped that some people now loathe it, and one in which I quoted the post directly after it where a poster used the very same word. There was no third post, and under the circumstances the second post is pretty understandable. So yes, getting called a troll for that comes across as frankly too strict.

    I was definitely not hurt or especially miffed in anyway.
    But I was.

    Your final response is highly dramatic. Personally I dont live by such ultimate type declarations.
    It was dramatic - I had assumed that you were, quite frankly, a too thin skinned "true fan" tyrant who had called me a troll for something that no, is not even remotely "along the lines of trolling". I think I may have been wrong in that assessment, and I apologize for it, but I think you can see why. Honestly I've actually dealt with a couple of people who very much are like that in the past, so my tolerance for it is incredibly low. I've learned it's better to just call it out, be dramatic, and leave usually - clearly I'm also prone to the very human need to know the response if any after such a declaration, which right now has turned out not too bad, but has at other times proved me right for such before.

    Best of wishes reading, this is just a fun light hearted hobby for me.
    Same to you - and if it is really such a fun and light hearted hobby, maybe not come down so quickly and hard for two fun and light hearted posts. And as I don't have anything further to add on topic, this time I really am bowing out.

  13. #13
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Yeah... it's still horrible.

    And the fact that they "fixed it" 3 times by now only proves that.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  14. #14
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    Yea it still has some pretty poor storytelling and characterization, and the art doesn't really fit it.

    Also ^
    if multiple writers have to come behind you and "fix" it then it probably wasn't very good to begin with and marred by poor choices.

  15. #15
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    I was quite excited for it, and it was totally not what I expected. I liked the confession panels for each character, even if some of them weren't totally "in character".

    But the biggest issue to me wasn't what happened with Wally and the victims, it's the fact that what was pitched at first as a story about dealing with trauma, and getting to know a place where superheroes go to work on their mental health, turned out to be the next Identity Crisis instead. It was the totally wrong direction. I don't "hate it" but I'm just not very interested in what it turned out to be.

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