People hated Heroes in Crisis, has that change?

[ducklord]

Didn't Emerald Twilight have direct links to another big event where Coast City died?

Yup. When Superman returned, Cyborg-Superman and Mongul blew up Coast City for reasons I can't properly remember.

As an impetus for Hal Jordan going cukoobananas, the destruction of Coast City wouldn't have been bad. Unfortunately DC kinda screwed the pooch on that front, 'cause:

a) Hal hadn't been spending ANY time in Coast City in, like, forever. The man had no roots there any more.
b) Weirdly, no one that Hal seemed to care about was left in Coast City when it went boom. None of his brothers, not Carol Ferris. The only person who was left may very well have been Kari Limbo (aside: comic book names are great).
c) In the two or three issues leading up to Emerald Twilight, Hal is seen kind of being well, not "ok" with Coast City's destruction, but definitely not a "cop on the edge" about it. Which makes sense, really... Hal Jordan's not really the kind of guy you expect to lose his shite.

So, when Emerald Twilight kicks off and Hal's all weepy about Coast City and wallowing in ring projections of his (way) former hometown, a lot of people were like "where'd THIS come from?" But still, clumsy writer transitions happen, so the new guy was given the benefit of the doubt.

But then Hal turned on a dime from "suddenly weepy about Coast City" to "and now I must destroy the Green Lantern Corps because the Guardians won't let me use my power ring to bring back the dead (or something)", and a lot of people just kind of threw their hands up and said "w the actual f?"

It's a good thing Kyle turned out to be a decent character (although his fridged girlfriend would've been better), 'cause the deck-clearing required for his intro was rough. And no, layers upon layers of retcons to "fix" the story don't make it any better.

It's still about a mile and a half more coherent and respectful of its readers than HiC, though. And coming from a charter member of H.E.A.T., that's saying something.

[TheRay]

A person asking how Flash can lose if he has super speed is not the same as not wanting him to lose.

Come on. That’s just one example.
Stop pretending like this is completely made up. You and I both know there are real Flash fans who say this.

https://www.quora.com/The-Flash-can-...r-lose-a-fight
Here’s one closer to what you’re asking for.

[Menacer]

Yup. When Superman returned, Cyborg-Superman and Mongul blew up Coast City for reasons I can't properly remember.

As an impetus for Hal Jordan going cukoobananas, the destruction of Coast City wouldn't have been bad. Unfortunately DC kinda screwed the pooch on that front, 'cause:

a) Hal hadn't been spending ANY time in Coast City in, like, forever. The man had no roots there any more.
b) Weirdly, no one that Hal seemed to care about was left in Coast City when it went boom. None of his brothers, not Carol Ferris. The only person who was left may very well have been Kari Limbo (aside: comic book names are great).
c) In the two or three issues leading up to Emerald Twilight, Hal is seen kind of being well, not "ok" with Coast City's destruction, but definitely not a "cop on the edge" about it. Which makes sense, really... Hal Jordan's not really the kind of guy you expect to lose his shite.

So, when Emerald Twilight kicks off and Hal's all weepy about Coast City and wallowing in ring projections of his (way) former hometown, a lot of people were like "where'd THIS come from?" But still, clumsy writer transitions happen, so the new guy was given the benefit of the doubt.

But then Hal turned on a dime from "suddenly weepy about Coast City" to "and now I must destroy the Green Lantern Corps because the Guardians won't let me use my power ring to bring back the dead (or something)", and a lot of people just kind of threw their hands up and said "w the actual f?"

It's a good thing Kyle turned out to be a decent character (although his fridged girlfriend would've been better), 'cause the deck-clearing required for his intro was rough. And no, layers upon layers of retcons to "fix" the story don't make it any better.

It's still about a mile and a half more coherent and respectful of its readers than HiC, though. And coming from a charter member of H.E.A.T., that's saying something.

Ultimately if someone goes through enough mental strife they can do almost anything... plenty of real world stories of fathers going crazy and killing their on children.

Hal sudden insanity after the destruction of coast city was sufficient to me. Albeit a bit rushed in the actual story...

But for Wally... he literally hadn't existed. And when he finally was brought back his powers were on the glitch... arguably is mental state was wack too... his kids literally didnt exist... not just died. Didnt exist.

Ultimately seem very clear the consensus on this form is people hated it. And still hate it.

For me its be some of the most exciting materials of late to collect and I'm keen to see what more twists the limited Infinite Crisis series will add.

Parallax as a character was always a favorite of mine as a kid. And when I got into comics Kyle was GL. There was no other. I never new Hal was the guy. It was Kyle as GL and Parallax... when I discovered his whole history and journey it was awesome for me. Those big Parallax stories will forever be favourites of mine. Especially Final Night and Green Lantern Silver Surfer from the Dc vs Marvel series.

And Barry Allen has always been my Flash.

For whatever reason I never cared about wally.

This line of stories has changed that for me. I'M interested in wally. Very very interested in this Flash's current journey.

[Stanlos]

Yup. When Superman returned, Cyborg-Superman and Mongul blew up Coast City for reasons I can't properly remember.

As an impetus for Hal Jordan going cukoobananas, the destruction of Coast City wouldn't have been bad. Unfortunately DC kinda screwed the pooch on that front, 'cause:

a) Hal hadn't been spending ANY time in Coast City in, like, forever. The man had no roots there any more.
b) Weirdly, no one that Hal seemed to care about was left in Coast City when it went boom. None of his brothers, not Carol Ferris. The only person who was left may very well have been Kari Limbo (aside: comic book names are great).
c) In the two or three issues leading up to Emerald Twilight, Hal is seen kind of being well, not "ok" with Coast City's destruction, but definitely not a "cop on the edge" about it. Which makes sense, really... Hal Jordan's not really the kind of guy you expect to lose his shite.

So, when Emerald Twilight kicks off and Hal's all weepy about Coast City and wallowing in ring projections of his (way) former hometown, a lot of people were like "where'd THIS come from?" But still, clumsy writer transitions happen, so the new guy was given the benefit of the doubt.

But then Hal turned on a dime from "suddenly weepy about Coast City" to "and now I must destroy the Green Lantern Corps because the Guardians won't let me use my power ring to bring back the dead (or something)", and a lot of people just kind of threw their hands up and said "w the actual f?"

It's a good thing Kyle turned out to be a decent character (although his fridged girlfriend would've been better), 'cause the deck-clearing required for his intro was rough. And no, layers upon layers of retcons to "fix" the story don't make it any better.

It's still about a mile and a half more coherent and respectful of its readers than HiC, though. And coming from a charter member of H.E.A.T., that's saying something.

I am going to have to dig up those issues because I thought that was Hal's turf and that he had either emotional ties or he engaged the baddies with the City on the line and was defeated. I can't remember but I do remember that I was Team Hal when he approached the Guardians and made what was to me not an unreasonable request. But when those little oompa loompa guys said no he was heartbroken and turned into the guy from the Shining

[married guy]

Well, it's totally unscrewed as of the last Flash annual. DC clearly wants to forget the story and move on. Roy Harper is back. There's an easy way to bring back the rest of the dead characters, too. Say that they returned when the multiverse restarted. Have Solstice and Hotspot turn up at Titans Academy, for instance.

DC wanted to do another Identity Crisis and failed. The end.

Let it go already.

I have.
I'm EXTREMELY happy with the current state of the Flash.
Wally has the stink of HiC washed off him and Barry is with Justice Incarnate.
I'm responding to the question.
Hopefully Titans fans have something to celebrate as well in the near future.

[Agent Z]

Come on. That’s just one example.
Stop pretending like this is completely made up. You and I both know there are real Flash fans who say this.

https://www.quora.com/The-Flash-can-...r-lose-a-fight
Here’s one closer to what you’re asking for.

Putting aside this is one question on quora that doesn't reflect the majority of Flash fans, we can't even tell if the person asking this is a Flash fanas opposed to someone who read about his powers online.

Furthermore, people's issues with hic is not about Flash being invincible. I also find it funny that the Flash in the scans for that link you provided is Barry not Wally.

[Babylon23]

Heroes in Crisis was the book that made me realise I was no longer interested in what DC was producing, and ended my 40 year love of the DCU.

It wasn't an intentional reaction specifically to HIC. I didn't quit in disgust. I just noticed that over the course of the 3 year leading up to HIC the number of DC books I was interested in reading had plummeted. My pull list of DC books had dwindled to almost no regular titles.

Reading HIC I realised that much of what was contained in that story summed up many of the issues I had with the modern DCU. So I basically stopped reading DC titles around this time, only returning for the recent Stargirl special and the OOC Justice League Infinity.

I'm happy to see others enjoying the recent output but it's not for me.

[Maxi]

I'm happy to see others enjoying the recent output but it's not for me.

Give the current Flash run a chance, it's really GREAT. And it fixes Wally once and for all.

[marvelprince]

I still hate HiC, despite generally being a Tom King fan. It clearly got changed a lot by editorial cause what TK first described it as (a book exploring Sanctuary to show how heroes deal with mental issues) to what it became (a murder mystery event) were vastly different. I do see that they managed to salvage what they did to Wally and do some cool stuff with him afterwards but I just remember at the time thinking this just craps all over what John’s did when he brought back Wally in Rebirth.

[Dred]

Even if you take away all the meta complaints about how it impacts certain characters going forward, Heroes in Crisis is an atrociously written and conveyed book. It doesn't tackle any of the important subject matter well, it doesn't handle a single character in the entire story with any grace or dignity, and the narrative structure itself is all over the place. It leans heavily on single panel gotcha confessionals which are the thinnest, weakest, dumbest takes on the characters or it bloats itself with spending 9 panels to stare at Barbara in a skin tight suit as she shows off her bullet wounds, again completely ignoring who Barbara is as a character to highlight the weakest part of her character arc. Because that's all HiC is, a shallow, pathetic, awful take on mental health when that was the only selling point. The murder mystery stuff is awful and even when it uses the time travel mcguffin to "fix" the nonsensical plot it creates another plothole to do it.

It's bad. Not just because it wrote Wally so poorly -- because it wrote EVERY character so poorly. It just did it the worst to Wally whose fans had already suffered so much that their YEARS of whining was now vindicated to the larger audience, so the "Why does DC hate Wally so much?" complaint gained traction outside of Wally fans. That became the biggest deal of the comic, but the comic itself is still downright awful in every way. Even the high quality art is abashed by the context -- a bunch of sexually provocative images about people in pain, or corpses, or what have you.

And Barry Allen has always been my Flash.

For whatever reason I never cared about wally.

Ah, so that's why you like Heroes In Crisis. Makes this whole thread make a lot more sense.

Would you have liked Heroes in Crisis more if it turned Barry into a psychopathic criminal responsible for the deaths of other heroes, ruining all of his relationships and his status as a hero? I mean it's such a good story to you, would it have been better if it was about Barry coming to the realization that he will never meet or love his children and going insane from it?

[Nite-Wing]

There's a vocal minority on the internet that sort of creates this bubble where their opinions are treated as fact.
Most of the time when you speak to actual people at comic shops or cons they will actually say things like Infinite Crisis, Cry for Justice, or Countdown is what got them into comics
Obviously those stories are not held with any type of esteem though so you have to take that for what its worth.
Heroes in Crisis has amazing art and the premise is not a bad one
The only fault fans can really craft around the story is what happened to Wally in the story

It was the type of fan reaction that I've come to expect from the internet fans and they didn't let me down. I mean in the grand scheme of things Wally was left no worse off than many other DC characters who have been subject to bad writing or status quo changes.
He was even given his redemption story arc right after the series ended and barely spent any time in jail for his crimes. Then DC preceded to retcon everything away so that Wally was no longer culpable for any of his actions.

All of these types of things ironically serve to make the story worse in my mind and pointless but the Wally fans feel like the story was bad to begin with so this was just DC making a very good looking comic book that meant nothing.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think those that hated it for various reasons hate it just as much, if not more.

For everyone else that doesn't have the passionate attachment to the characters it screwed over, general consensus seems to be "meh."

Very likely never going down as an all time classic for DC.

[Maxi]

Ultimately if someone goes through enough mental strife they can do almost anything... plenty of real world stories of fathers going crazy and killing their on children.

Hal sudden insanity after the destruction of coast city was sufficient to me. Albeit a bit rushed in the actual story...

But for Wally... he literally hadn't existed. And when he finally was brought back his powers were on the glitch... arguably is mental state was wack too... his kids literally didnt exist... not just died. Didnt exist.

Ultimately seem very clear the consensus on this form is people hated it. And still hate it.

For me its be some of the most exciting materials of late to collect and I'm keen to see what more twists the limited Infinite Crisis series will add.

Parallax as a character was always a favorite of mine as a kid. And when I got into comics Kyle was GL. There was no other. I never new Hal was the guy. It was Kyle as GL and Parallax... when I discovered his whole history and journey it was awesome for me. Those big Parallax stories will forever be favourites of mine. Especially Final Night and Green Lantern Silver Surfer from the Dc vs Marvel series.

And Barry Allen has always been my Flash.

For whatever reason I never cared about wally.

This line of stories has changed that for me. I'M interested in wally. Very very interested in this Flash's current journey.

I don't get it. You say that when you got into comics Kyle was GL yet Barry Allen is your Flash. It doesn't make any sense. Perhaps you didn't care for Wally because you didn't care to reae anything about him. He had his amazing journey to follow. It's not Heroes in Crisis. That was his character assassination.

[Hol]

The only fault fans can really craft around the story is what happened to Wally in the story

Nope. Readers have noted (over and over) many problems of this story that have nothing to do with how they treated Wally. It has been said over and over. If this story had original characters only the plot would still be weak as hell with more holes in it than swiss cheese.

[Agent Z]

The story was getting criticism even before Wally was revealed as the culprit so the claim that Wally's treatment is the only flaw doesn't work.