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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    Not to defend this terrible story but I think the continuity point is moot. DC has abandoned the idea of having something resembling a coherent continuity a long time ago and they just reference all their continuity whenever needed, which is IMO the best possible approach after the mess DiDio has done.
    I'd just like some stories that didn't rely on canon, as it seems to get rewritten every 10 minutes. Tell some stories, set in the here and now. Build on those. Spare us the damn crossovers.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I'd just like some stories that didn't rely on canon, as it seems to get rewritten every 10 minutes. Tell some stories, set in the here and now. Build on those. Spare us the damn crossovers.
    While there are some stories that can be told without relying in canon, there are characters that don't mean anything without their history. Wally for example.

  3. #33
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Did the pages in between the covers change? No? Then no. It was awful on many, many fronts and this dead horse has been beat enough. I read The Price. I Read Flash Forward. I read Flash Annual #1.

    Everything is trying to move Heaven and Earth to apologize and undo that story. There's a reason for that. It was a mess.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  4. #34
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
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    I still think it is a terrible story...for so many reasons. Trashing Wally and so much of it doesn't make sense.

    BUT...it doesn't bother me anymore because Jeremy Adams kicked all sorts of ass fixing it and made it a fun read at the same time. So HIC is still horrible but I don't care anymore.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Has the sanctuary been used or mentioned later other than in Wally's appearances?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    I think in cases like this, the reaction that you're seeing from a lot of peopl cannot be divorced from the general context of Wally West's treatment by DC during Didio's tenure. And how fans were fed up with Wally's marginalization.

    Heroes in Crisis plays with a lot of interesting themes and in some cases delivers on it's intended mission statement. HOWEVER, it does do its part to assassinate Wally's character. Having said that, though, it's worth considering whether the reaction would have been anywhere as bad as it was if it had literally been ANYBODY other than Wally.

    Say, for example, it was Captain Atom or Firestorm who exploded and took out everyone there. Would the fan reaction be half as bad? I honestly think...maybe not. Whenever you hear someone talk about Heroes in Crisis, it's always through the lens of "they screwed over Wally" or "Wally deserved better" and that's valid. But...I've never really heard anyone talk about the other aspects of the story or the way that the story impacted other characters. The Wally criticism kind of overshadows all of that.
    Firestorm did blow up once-he like Atom would understand how dangerous exploding they would be and would fly as far away from everyone.

    Wally would not have known.

    Folks would still take issue with the book because you had plenty of folks in there who have NOT been seen in years getting killed off. Shock value mess and one guy looking like Trayvon Martin and recently appeared in another book under the same editor to be badmouthed for being a Teen Titan.

    It would be one thing if King's pitch lead up to this with a build up and fleshing out those slated to die or even showing others coming in and out. Lets say a 24 issue run. Not that mess we got that a line of writers had to try to fix because ONCE again DC is ticking off fans to the point they leave.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    King didn’t stick the landing on HiC. Otherwise I absolutely loved it. I loved ID Crisis start to finish. I couldn’t care less about bad things happening to or because of characters I like or love. I want them to have real world problems and emotions, I want them to make terrible mistakes and have character flaws. It makes me identify with them more. And of course their mistakes are going to have extreme consequences because comic book reasons.

    I do wish we’d see a LOT more of Sanctuary but that seems unlikely.

  8. #38
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    It was a character assasination for no reason
    I’ve been reading comics since 2010 DC has not had any compelling events in my time

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Never had a dog in the Flash fight but damn that was a hit job.
    Last edited by Gaius; 08-02-2021 at 03:46 PM.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    When Heroes in Crisis hit there was a massive amount of hate thrown its way. Character assassination of Wally being the main point of contention.

    But with the revelation of The Price and Other Stories, Tales from the Dark Multiverse, Flash Forward and what I think is particularly exceptional stories in Infinite Crisis 0, 1, 2 and The Secret Files.


    Are your opinions changing?

    For me Wally coming up as a murder was an exciting plot point that I thought DC could get pretty creative with...

    Turns out what they've done is way more exciting and imaginative then I ever thought.

    I'm particularly interested...Has anyones views changed from hating the story point to becoming intrigued by the ongoing story or flat out loving the ongoing plot.

    I'm interested in some polite discussion!?
    Like so very much of that regime's product, HiC had great art.

    There endeth any positives to be extolled.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Never had a dog in the Flash fight but damn that was a hit job.
    I expected that because of certain people still having their way. But Harley jobbing the crap out of the Trinity? How ridiculous can you get? That was COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS level "storytelling"

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I expected that because of certain people still having their way. But Harley jobbing the crap out of the Trinity? How ridiculous can you get? That was COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS level "storytelling"
    I was thinking more Amazons Attack...

  13. #43
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I expected that because of certain people still having their way. But Harley jobbing the crap out of the Trinity? How ridiculous can you get? That was COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS level "storytelling"
    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I was thinking more Amazons Attack...
    I haven't seen such enticing options since someone screwed up the phrase and told me to "eat **** or die."

    What choices!


    More directly answering the OP:

    Heroes in Crisis has very poor characterization across multiple characters that shows very shoddy understanding of their history and voices.

    It is not a particularly effective murder mystery.

    It fails on the advertised presence about highlighting mental health by turning Wally into a victim and simultaneously portraying him as the culprit. Every time they have a chance to sympathize with him, instead the creative team doubles down on making him worse until you can no longer say anything about getting mental health assistance.

    He went to a clinic to get help. He snapped and accidentally killed everyone.

    Then he desecrated their corpses and covered it up to try and make things right.

    He proceeds to pin the blame on other victims, one of which is grieving the lover she's accused of killing.

    Then he takes everyone's confidential information and violates them by leaking their most private moments in order to make others feel okay. He violated his friends and family, some of which he killed or is responsible for killing people important to them.

    Then he commits suicide.

    Remember, this is the character who did the right thing. He stepped up and went to get help. Good fucking message.

    Before we even get into who it is, it's already a mess. It turns the discussion on mental health into a vehicle for a grossly pedestrian murder mystery that says nothing save it's okay to be selfish and hurt others if you justify it by being hurt.

    As someone who's had to deal with mental illness and help others who suffered it as well, I'll say the book was insulting and leave it at that. It made a monster out of a victim and kept compounding on it.

    And King never made it about Wally until they told him to.

    Before we get into the Trinity jobbing to Harley (LOL that's awful) or Wally being responsible, it's just poor storytelling.

    And no amount of books that are busy retconning that mess will fix HiC. Emerald Twilight isn't retroactively good just because Rebirth was. There's a lot of fallout because it wasn't good and now they have to clean up a radioactive spill.
    Last edited by Robanker; 08-03-2021 at 02:07 AM.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member InfamousBG's Avatar
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    Hated it from start to finish and hope to never read or see it again.
    "Life is too short so love the one you got cause you might get run over or you might get shot" - Sublime

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I was thinking more Amazons Attack...
    Nooooooooooooop! You've broken through my memory blocks! Somebody get Zatana on the line stat!

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