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  1. #46
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I expected that because of certain people still having their way. But Harley jobbing the crap out of the Trinity? How ridiculous can you get? That was COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS level "storytelling"
    I believe you mean "Injustice storytelling".

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I haven't seen such enticing options since someone screwed up the phrase and told me to "eat **** or die."

    What choices!


    More directly answering the OP:

    Heroes in Crisis has very poor characterization across multiple characters that shows very shoddy understanding of their history and voices.

    It is not a particularly effective murder mystery.

    It fails on the advertised presence about highlighting mental health by turning Wally into a victim and simultaneously portraying him as the culprit. Every time they have a chance to sympathize with him, instead the creative team doubles down on making him worse until you can no longer say anything about getting mental health assistance.

    He went to a clinic to get help. He snapped and accidentally killed everyone.

    Then he desecrated their corpses and covered it up to try and make things right.

    He proceeds to pin the blame on other victims, one of which is grieving the lover she's accused of killing.

    Then he takes everyone's confidential information and violates them by leaking their most private moments in order to make others feel okay. He violated his friends and family, some of which he killed or is responsible for killing people important to them.

    Then the commits suicide.

    Remember, this is the character who did the right thing. He stepped up and went to get help. Good fucking message.

    Before we even get into who it is, it's already a mess. It turns the discussion on mental health into a vehicle for a grossly pedestrian murder mystery that says nothing save it's okay to be selfish and hurt others if you justify it by being hurt.

    As someone who's had to deal with mental illness and help others who suffered it as well, I'll say the book was insulting and leave it at that. It made a monster out of a victim and kept compounding on it.

    And King never made it about Wally until they told him to.

    Before we get into the Trinity jobbing to Harley (LOL that's awful) or Wally being responsible, it's just poor storytelling.

    And no amount of books that are busy retconning that mess will fix HiC. Emerald Twilight isn't retroactively good just because Rebirth was. There's a lot of fallout because it wasn't good and now they have to clean up a radioactive spill.
    Was Emerald Twilight "bad"? I remember being terrified by that story. It was really scary to me. I do not understand how it is bad but Rebirth with its "fear parasite" version of the devil made me do it is good.

  3. #48
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Have you guys been following the stories that I listed that expand on this wally storyline???

    Or you only read HiC and just dont want to explore further?
    Mate, I've read every issue of the Flash DC has published.
    Everything that has come AFTER HiC has simply been DC trying to unscrew the pooch.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Mate, I've read every issue of the Flash DC has published.
    Everything that has come AFTER HiC has simply been DC trying to unscrew the pooch.
    Youve read Infinite Frontier 0, 1 ,2 ?

    I dunno if I'll get to replying to everyone in this thread.

    Personally I was really happy to have major story arc surrounding wally west, the flash, and found the issues related to roy in the price really touching.

    My general statement to everyone in the thread is I feel sorry that people arent having a good time... I read hundreds and hundreds of issues a year and easily 90% of what I read I find really enjoyable page turning material.

    Ultimately hopefully you find materials that excite you to read.

    When HiC first came out all I could think was how was DC gonna get out of this, how were they going to spin this controversial story. I couldn't be more happy with how they've been playing it and Infinite Frontier 0 and the limited series 1,2 of 6 out so far and IF Secret Files and Bones investigating has been a lot of fun.

    I feel past events have been so focused on superman and then batman with metal and death metal that Infinite Frontier shining a spot light on The Flash really is fun for me.


    As I have more time I'll try and respond to more of your posts.

  5. #50
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducklord View Post
    In the spirit of this NOT turning into another "boy howdy, that Heroes In Crisis sure stunk up the joint" thread, allow me to pose a broader question:

    Is there a DC story arc/mini-series/whatever that you didn't like initially, and was generally not well-received at the time, that you've come around to thinking "y'know, it wasn't THAT bad?"

    Identity Crisis?
    Cry for Justice?
    War of the Gods?
    Genesis?
    Extreme Justice?
    This is my single favorite response. Great question.

    While I read as a kid from about 1991 to 1998 I never read much.

    But in 2016 I became a huge collector.

    The only one I actually read from what you listed was Identity Crisis.

    Just as far as the art, the way it all unfolds, it was so interesting to me and I'd heard a lot of the negative before I read it so I was braced for disappointment.

    Once the end hit and the sorta copout ending was expected I really didn't have any problem with it... certainly I could see why people would be frustrated but... like I said I expected a annoying conclusion so it was more about the journey. And I liked the journey.

    Like I said I never read the other books listed.

    I would comment that Zero Hour got pegged as bad and it didnt read so well ... it being older and me not having read enough leading up to it probably didnt help. I do have a curiosity to reread it with more context.

    **** I still havent finished Crisis on Infinite Earths... got over half way through. Brilliant brilliant concepts. Horrificly wordy and repetitive writing... I ended up watching YouTube synopsis's etc...

    Sort of the reverse of your question I was so incredibly let down by All Star Superman. Will forever be one of my lowest rated dc books... having said that watching the animated movie several months after gave me a new appreciation for a story that was so popular that I hated... the animated movie redeemed the book for me... but I still promptly sold the book and will never read that story again.

    I'd be interested in continuing this line of convo...
    But I've probably not read much of the hated stories... since I'm a newer reader I do research and likely avoid most of the classically hated stories.


    Teen Titans, Volume 5: The Trial of Kid Flash by Scott Lobdell .... this is a hated story that is even some what similar to HiC that totally character assassinates Bart... I wouldn't dare reread this and pretty sure it was totally ignored in any future stories or quickly retconned.

  6. #51

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    Can't speak for anyone else but I still think it's trash and the only thing that comes to mind whenever 'Heroes In Crisis' is brought up is 'kill it with fire'.

  7. #52
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    never forget lol




    The J-man

  8. #53
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Youve read Infinite Frontier 0, 1 ,2 ?

    I dunno if I'll get to replying to everyone in this thread.

    Personally I was really happy to have major story arc surrounding wally west, the flash, and found the issues related to roy in the price really touching.

    My general statement to everyone in the thread is I feel sorry that people arent having a good time... I read hundreds and hundreds of issues a year and easily 90% of what I read I find really enjoyable page turning material.

    Ultimately hopefully you find materials that excite you to read.

    When HiC first came out all I could think was how was DC gonna get out of this, how were they going to spin this controversial story. I couldn't be more happy with how they've been playing it and Infinite Frontier 0 and the limited series 1,2 of 6 out so far and IF Secret Files and Bones investigating has been a lot of fun.

    I feel past events have been so focused on superman and then batman with metal and death metal that Infinite Frontier shining a spot light on The Flash really is fun for me.


    As I have more time I'll try and respond to more of your posts.
    Can you stop doing this in so many of your posts? Look, lots of us have been reading for 20+ years and still continue to. Flexing like this just comes across as flaunting how much disposable income you have and wanting to prove you're a big fan.

    You're on these forums and discussing the characters in greater detail. You already have made your commitment to being a fan known by doing so. Flexing about how many trades you read isn't going to make anyone take your opinion more or less seriously.

    No amount of reading current material (and I've read Infinite Frontier 0-3) is going to change that HiC is a bad story. You liked it. That's genuinely great and I'm glad for you, but please stop implying that simply continuing to read mediocre stories trying to fix a bad one is some grand tapestry. It isn't. They're just trying to bilk us out of what money we've got until we don't care and the new generation comes in. Take it from fans who have been reading several decades and have been on this ride several times. It's not new.
    May we never forget:

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    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Honestly ?

    Even as someone who really doesn't care about Wally West at all, who finds the JSA plot in Infinite Frontier utterly boring and uninteresting, depriving us of more Justice Incarnate... I hated and still hate Heroes in Crisis and don't see what plot point it produced which was needed for anything of what was done afterward with Wally.

    I just don't understand the point of the story. I know DiDio gets a lot of hate here, but I still think King's done an horrible job and he'd have done an horrible job with that story no matter which characters would have been chosen in my book.

    If some peoples like it, it's obviously more power to them, but I personaly can't.

  10. #55
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    I have been reading comics since 1994 - 1995. I thought I would never again read such a massive character assassination as was Identity Crisis.

    And then Heroes in Crisis came along.

    And yes, I have read the stories that came afterward, desperately trying to *fix* the mess that was HiC.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianS View Post
    I have been reading comics since 1994 - 1995. I thought I would never again read such a massive character assassination as was Identity Crisis.
    Identity Crisis had iirc at least decent pacing, got the voices of the characters right and had a consistent tone.

  12. #57
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Youve read Infinite Frontier 0, 1 ,2 ?

    I dunno if I'll get to replying to everyone in this thread.

    Personally I was really happy to have major story arc surrounding wally west, the flash, and found the issues related to roy in the price really touching.

    My general statement to everyone in the thread is I feel sorry that people arent having a good time... I read hundreds and hundreds of issues a year and easily 90% of what I read I find really enjoyable page turning material.

    Ultimately hopefully you find materials that excite you to read.

    When HiC first came out all I could think was how was DC gonna get out of this, how were they going to spin this controversial story. I couldn't be more happy with how they've been playing it and Infinite Frontier 0 and the limited series 1,2 of 6 out so far and IF Secret Files and Bones investigating has been a lot of fun.

    I feel past events have been so focused on superman and then batman with metal and death metal that Infinite Frontier shining a spot light on The Flash really is fun for me.


    As I have more time I'll try and respond to more of your posts.
    Yes, I've read all of them.
    Here's the thing.
    Everything in Infinite Frontier could have been told without shitting all over Wally.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Was Emerald Twilight "bad"? I remember being terrified by that story. It was really scary to me. I do not understand how it is bad but Rebirth with its "fear parasite" version of the devil made me do it is good.
    A character who was always portayed as unambiguously heroic suddenly becomes an egotistical mass-murderer in the span of one destroyed city? Yeah, it was bad. Poor Hal. I didn't know much of Green Lantern when I was a kid reading that story (poor 7 year old me lol) except for what I saw in Superfriends and instead of finding it cool I thought "Why are they doing this to Green Lantern?"

  14. #59
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    A character who was always portayed as unambiguously heroic suddenly becomes an egotistical mass-murderer in the span of one destroyed city? Yeah, it was bad. Poor Hal. I didn't know much of Green Lantern when I was a kid reading that story (poor 7 year old me lol) except for what I saw in Superfriends and instead of finding it cool I thought "Why are they doing this to Green Lantern?"
    He also was getting it together and then DC decided to undo that and write a heel turn if I recall.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Never hated it.
    This is comics.
    Multiple Earths exist.

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