Rumblers League Round 7: Siriel vs Jcogginsa

[Darth Drizzle]

Here we go!

Voting and debate rules:

- To avoid mass unreadable debate, each participant is allowed 8 posts to make their argument in their matches.
- Each match is open for discussion for 48 hours.
- Once all match discussions are over, vote threads will be posted on Thursday with polls (we have special dispensation from the board to allow polls). These will last for two days.

Team Jcogginsa
Jean Grey (X-Men Movies - Young) 10 + Shocked by Genetically Altered Eels (The Amazing Spider-Man 2) 7 Staff of Devosynn, The (Buffyverse) 2


Flash (DCEU) 9 + Mimetic Polyalloy Upgrade (Terminator Genysis) 6 + Terrigenesis upgrade, Joey Gutierrez (MCU) 4 + Medusa's Head w/ Bag (Clash of the Titans Original) 9 + Kungai Demon's Tak Horn (Buffyverse) 2


Cyborg (DCEU) 7 + Mutari Generator, The (Buffyverse) 3 + Protection Amulet (Charmed) 5 + Terrigenesis upgrade, Yo-Yo (MCU) 5 +Sarcophagus Crystal (Buffyverse) 2, TVA Baton(8)

Adam Monroe (Heroes) 2 + Draconian Katra (Buffyverse) 2+ Neuralyzer (Men in Black) 6

Hal Jordan (Green Lantern Movie) 9 + Band of Blacknil (Buffyverse) 2

Ares (DCEU) 8 + Soul Stone, The (MCU) 4 + Power-Sucking Athame (Charmed) 6
Godzilla (Final Wars) 10, Sling Ring(3)

Purity (9)


Team Siriel
Sylar(9) w/Ambrosia(9), Time Stone (9)
Eli(5) w/Vest of Coriscan Brothers(7)
Emma Frost(5) w/MITRE Headset(9)
Barbas(6) w/Reality Stone(9)
Paige Halliwell(4)'w/Book of Shadows,(6) Blood of Charmed Ones(7), Phoenix Charm(6), Velocity 9 (9)
Captain Marvel (10) w/ Absorbtion of Godspeed Tachyons (9), Magnetos Helmet (5)
Charlie(6) w/ Power Tripling Potion(9), Centipede Serum(5), Terrigenisis Upgrade: Daisy(5)

[Darth Drizzle]

Team Jcogginsa Stratagy

Opening moves

Unless noted, all of these actions take place simultaneously to each other, with no one waiting for someone else to act to act

Cyborg will use his Super Speed to rush over to Jean, and touch her with the Sarcophagus crystals to protect her from the Timestop. He will then use his technopathy to take control of the MITRE and undo any enhancements it’s given Emma

Jean will telepathically assault Sylar. Her goal is to mess with his perceptions, and cause him to not include his allies within whatever temporal manipulation he attempts to start. If she succeeds, he will instead include her entire team. She will also inhabit Cyborg.

Ares will open a small sling ring portal behind Sylar and use the Soul Stone to separate Sylar’s soul from his body whilst also stealing the Time Stone. He will then open a Sling Ring Portal to a hidden location far from the battlefield but within the dimension which his team sans Godzilla will enter.

The Flash will, assuming my team’s Time Stop goes off, ramp up to his higher levels of speed and steal Magneto’s psychic resistance helmet, the Reality Stone, the book of Shadow, the Phoenix Charm, the Mitre Headset, and the Vest of the Corsican Brothers. He will give the helmet and Vest to Purity, the Charm, Reality Stone, and Book to Ares, the Mitre Headset to Cyborg.

Follow up moves

Ares will open a small sling ring portal behind paige and allow Cyborg to shoot him with the Mutari Generator, draining her powers. While Cyborg does this, Ares will also be trying to steal Paige’s soul. Next he will open a portal behind Barbas, and stab him with the power sucking Athame before again taking his soul. Next he will open a portal in front of Captain Marvel’s eyes, looking directly into the Medusa’s, turning her to stone. Next he will open a portal beneath Eli, Emma frost, and Charlie, dropping them into Space near Jupiter.



Additional notes

Jean will defend my team from Psychic assaults by Emma

[Darth Drizzle]

Team Siriel Stratagy

A note on Hush's effect: Hush is a somewhat more complicated arena than most in that it has an active effect on the teams. That said most of my team shouldn't be particularly affected by losing their voices with one exception. Paige's spellcasting is effectively sealed, leaving her with only the innate magical powers of her family. An annoying limitation, but not a crippling one.

A power that I'll use prominently in this strategy is Paige's ablity to teleport (orb) objects around. At first this power required her to call out what she wanted to teleport but she started using it silently later on. The Charmed wiki tells me that this started in episode 117 of the show. Here's an example gif for reference: https://i.imgur.com/ymwuvbV.gifv

Opening round:

Jcogginsa likes to open with big shenanigans so we aren't going to stay at our starting location long enough for that to happen.

Paige will start us off by teleporting herself along with Charlie to the enemy team's left, then make Flash explode with Piper's powers - he'll recover, but too late. Then she'll teleport Green Lantern's ring off of his finger and into her pocket, effectively taking away his powers. If any of the members of the enemy team turn to face her and Charlie, she'll activate Medusa's head - it doesn't seem to require anything except being held aloft dramatically, so there should be no trouble to her doing it while teleporting the ring. Her final target will be the Sling-Ring held by Ares.
If any dangerous attacks come for them, she'll orb out of the way along with Charlie - she'll keep the hand that she uses to teleport stuff around near Charlie to be able to do this quickly.
Taken out: Someone who looks toward the duo, effectively Green Lantern.

Meanwhile, Charlie will reach into Paige's pocket while unleashing her fire powers on the enemy team. This should destroy most of their items and keep them staggered.
Taken out: Adam won't be regenerating from ashes quickly even if we assume he can do it, Flash's nanomachines will be melted if he stayed in the area, Cyborg's circuity might not fare so hot against that temperature. Generally all the enemy items that haven't demonstrated a high resistance to temperatures are now gone. (Note for example that TVA tech has proven pretty fragile, so the TVA baton is definitely gone even if Cyborg himself survives.)
Note that according to the wiki link provided Electro still needed to breathe: "By creating imbalances in his field, he can ride along on magnetic ripples at speeds of up to 140 miles per hour, the maximum speed at which he can still breathe unaided."
So this will rapidly kill Jean even if she manages to avoid the heat by suffocating her.

Carol Danvers will start off by flying right into the enemy team as fast as she can - at the speed of someone who was capable of interstellar flight on her own before she got a Flash-level on her speed. Her targets are first Jean then Purity, and if Jean manages to avoid it somehow (note that if she just hides in Cyborg, Captain Marvel can tackle him instead) she won't cry about it and just jump straight to smashing Purity with her statistical superiority. They're two flying bricks so it's basically mandatory.
Taken out: Possibly Jean and anyone who happens to be in the way, definitely Purity (who can't scream due to Hush by the way).
Note: Flash trying to intercept with Medusa's head will not work. Her eyes in Clash of the Titans take a moment to start shining after holding up the head which wouldn't be affected by his speed. This makes it a poor weapon in speedsters combat.

Barbas will open by teleporting away alongside Emma to a distant house while Emma will take over Godzilla's mind and have him blast his own team with his atomic breath - if Jean is still alive, she'll instead field her improved telepathy in keeping hers at bay.
For his part Barbas will teleport back out to another rooftop far enough away that it won't give up Emma's location. He'll then start turning the enemy team to stone with the Reality Stone starting wtih Ares, then Cyborg and then the others.
Taken out: Ares, Cyborg.

Sylar meanwhile will teleport to the right of the enemy team with Eli and act as a safety measure. If Jean manages to avoid the assaults launched on her so far, he'll revert her to her state at the start of the match - leading to her annihilation by Charlie's flame and Godzilla's breath before she can escape again. If a member of my team goes down, he'll teleport over to them and restore them. Meanwhile Eli will begin to multiply and act as a smoke screen to obscure this subtle but powerful insurance or my victory.

Clean-up:

In theory this should take out the entire enemy team except for Godzilla who's controlled by Emma, winning us the fight.

In practice Ares might still be around if he decided to teleport away at the start, but he should be easily shut down by Emma at that point.

If anyone else is left, my team will prioritize taking out Jean (I've outlined a few ways to do it in my strategy) before moving on to the others. If need be Charlie will start launching people into space with Quake's powers, something that Captain Marvel can also do with her strength and flight, or Barbas can bring people to other dimensions if they prove too tough to keep down.

[Siriel]

Reply to the strategy:

Cyborg will use his Super Speed to rush over to Jean, and touch her with the Sarcophagus crystals to protect her from the Timestop. He will then use his technopathy to take control of the MITRE and undo any enhancements it’s given Emma

Well we aren't stopping time, so that's his first action wasted. Does he have any technopathy feat for rapidly locating and affecting something that's far away without knowing its location? Since Barbas teleports Emma to safety as his first move.

Jean will telepathically assault Sylar. Her goal is to mess with his perceptions, and cause him to not include his allies within whatever temporal manipulation he attempts to start. If she succeeds, he will instead include her entire team. She will also inhabit Cyborg.

Fortunately Sylar's first temporal manipulation target is Jean herself (if she's still alive), so this isn't a problem for us. Running inside Cyborg is an expected part of what we're dealing with.

She'll likely be too busy fighting off Emma to do any of this anyway.

Ares will open a small sling ring portal behind Sylar and use the Soul Stone to separate Sylar’s soul from his body whilst also stealing the Time Stone. He will then open a Sling Ring Portal to a hidden location far from the battlefield but within the dimension which his team sans Godzilla will enter.

Unfortunately for him my entire team teleports away at the bell, so there's no chance he's catching Sylar. Then he gets his ring stolen by Paige, so there'll be no ringing his own team away.

The Flash will, assuming my team’s Time Stop goes off, ramp up to his higher levels of speed and steal Magneto’s psychic resistance helmet, the Reality Stone, the book of Shadow, the Phoenix Charm, the Mitre Headset, and the Vest of the Corsican Brothers. He will give the helmet and Vest to Purity, the Charm, Reality Stone, and Book to Ares, the Mitre Headset to Cyborg.

We still aren't stopping time though. Well, either way my team scattering via teleportation makes this move very nearly impossible to perform - and he just isn't touching Captain Marvel's stuff, since she'd be flying beating up Purity in the air by that point.

Ares will open a small sling ring portal behind paige and allow Cyborg to shoot him with the Mutari Generator, draining her powers. While Cyborg does this, Ares will also be trying to steal Paige’s soul. Next he will open a portal behind Barbas, and stab him with the power sucking Athame before again taking his soul. Next he will open a portal in front of Captain Marvel’s eyes, looking directly into the Medusa’s, turning her to stone. Next he will open a portal beneath Eli, Emma frost, and Charlie, dropping them into Space near Jupiter.

Hmmm, I suppose I can believe that the magibabble behind the generator would work on Charmed witches, but fortunately Paige stole his ring and with her enhanced speed there's no way that'll work.

Even without the ring being stolen I don't think there's any chance that he could accurately open a portal in front of a speeding Captain Marvel. He would also need Flash to be standing still in order to open the portal, which would leave him easy pickings for anyone on my team.

Additional notes

Jean will defend my team from Psychic assaults by Emma

This is fine by me.

Conclusion: A lot of this strategy depends on Ares' ring, which Paige steals either before or after his first move (it doesn't really matter which since Sylar is going to dodge it per my strategy). With Adam, Purity, Godzilla and Green Lantern all left to run on autopilot, I don't think my team has that much to worry about.

As-is, Charlie's Paige-delivered incineration will take out most of the enemy team except for Godzilla and maybe Flash, then Godzilla is controlled by Emma now that she doesn't have to fight Jean. That's assuming Captain Marvel's initial charge (which isn't obstructed in any way) fails to take out Jean or Cyborg somehow.

Trying to rely on Sling Ring portals, which will always be a tad slower than the ring's user because they need to make a movement and then the portal opens, against a team as mobile as mine was just a mistake.

Identifying Sylar as a priority target and focusing multiple opening moves around neutralizing him and his hypothetical timestop was also a blunder in this case, since I decided to have him act as support in this strategy. Cyborg, Jean, and Ares all have their first move centered around him, which leaves the field wide open for the rest of my team to decimate the enemy.

If anyone has any questions about my strategy, I'm happy to answer them.

[Jcogginsa]

Reply to the strategy:



Well we aren't stopping time, so that's his first action wasted. Does he have any technopathy feat for rapidly locating and affecting something that's far away without knowing its location? Since Barbas teleports Emma to safety as his first move.



Fortunately Sylar's first temporal manipulation target is Jean herself (if she's still alive), so this isn't a problem for us. Running inside Cyborg is an expected part of what we're dealing with.

She'll likely be too busy fighting off Emma to do any of this anyway.



Unfortunately for him my entire team teleports away at the bell, so there's no chance he's catching Sylar. Then he gets his ring stolen by Paige, so there'll be no ringing his own team away.



We still aren't stopping time though. Well, either way my team scattering via teleportation makes this move very nearly impossible to perform - and he just isn't touching Captain Marvel's stuff, since she'd be flying beating up Purity in the air by that point.



Hmmm, I suppose I can believe that the magibabble behind the generator would work on Charmed witches, but fortunately Paige stole his ring and with her enhanced speed there's no way that'll work.

Even without the ring being stolen I don't think there's any chance that he could accurately open a portal in front of a speeding Captain Marvel. He would also need Flash to be standing still in order to open the portal, which would leave him easy pickings for anyone on my team.


This is fine by me.

Conclusion: A lot of this strategy depends on Ares' ring, which Paige steals either before or after his first move (it doesn't really matter which since Sylar is going to dodge it per my strategy). With Adam, Purity, Godzilla and Green Lantern all left to run on autopilot, I don't think my team has that much to worry about.

As-is, Charlie's Paige-delivered incineration will take out most of the enemy team except for Godzilla and maybe Flash, then Godzilla is controlled by Emma now that she doesn't have to fight Jean. That's assuming Captain Marvel's initial charge (which isn't obstructed in any way) fails to take out Jean or Cyborg somehow.

Trying to rely on Sling Ring portals, which will always be a tad slower than the ring's user because they need to make a movement and then the portal opens, against a team as mobile as mine was just a mistake.

Identifying Sylar as a priority target and focusing multiple opening moves around neutralizing him and his hypothetical timestop was also a blunder in this case, since I decided to have him act as support in this strategy. Cyborg, Jean, and Ares all have their first move centered around him, which leaves the field wide open for the rest of my team to decimate the enemy.

If anyone has any questions about my strategy, I'm happy to answer them.

1. That just means Jean Mindwhammies him into using the stone.
2. Cyborg was able to take control of the Stock Market from his living room, so Distance is not really a factor
3. Emma's MITRE Helmet (Which has zero confirmed ability to enhance Telepathy, mind you) has been turned off, so She'll be beaten fairly quickly by Jean if she tries to attack
4. Your team teleporting away won't actually stop a sling ring portal from appearing near them. All Ares has to do is visualize the portal opening behind Sylar.

[Siriel]

1. That just means Jean Mindwhammies him into using the stone.
2. Cyborg was able to take control of the Stock Market from his living room, so Distance is not really a factor
3. Emma's MITRE Helmet (Which has zero confirmed ability to enhance Telepathy, mind you) has been turned off, so She'll be beaten fairly quickly by Jean if she tries to attack
4. Your team teleporting away won't actually stop a sling ring portal from appearing near them. All Ares has to do is visualize the portal opening behind Sylar.

1. You don't actually have her make him do anything, she only dictates who he targets.
2. He has an internet connection, that's not remotely the same thing as interfacing with a distant device thanks to his powers. That's like saying that I'm reaching your computer because you're looking at this message.
3. As I noted, Doctor Who explicitly has telepathy and telekinesis run on the same psychic energy, which is what the helmet amplifies. Since Emma already has access to her telepathic potential, there's no reason she wouldn't be able to use it this way.
4. I'd like proof of someone ringing a person that they don't know the location of.

Of course, these points are all rather academic anyway. With nothing stopping Captain Marvel's charge, Jean is dead before she can do much. With nothing stopping Paige, Ares doesn't have the ring. And the majority of your team gets roasted by Charlie as they try to get their first moves off (those who even have a first move planned anyway) even if we ignore those two facts.

[Jcogginsa]

1. You don't actually have her make him do anything, she only dictates who he targets.
2. He has an internet connection, that's not remotely the same thing as interfacing with a distant device thanks to his powers. That's like saying that I'm reaching your computer because you're looking at this message.
3. As I noted, Doctor Who explicitly has telepathy and telekinesis run on the same psychic energy, which is what the helmet amplifies. Since Emma already has access to her telepathic potential, there's no reason she wouldn't be able to use it this way.
4. I'd like proof of someone ringing a person that they don't know the location of.

Of course, these points are all rather academic anyway. With nothing stopping Captain Marvel's charge, Jean is dead before she can do much. With nothing stopping Paige, Ares doesn't have the ring. And the majority of your team gets roasted by Charlie as they try to get their first moves off (those who even have a first move planned anyway) even if we ignore those two facts.

1. Yeah, but she can adapt the strategy
2. It's not an internet connection. You can't casually take control of the stock market with just an internet connection.
3. Emma's powers don't run on psychic energy though. Also, The device isn't a power multipier, it stores power and gave charge things. Telekinesis is just an applying energy to effect the outside world, so it makes sense that adding more energy would make it stronger. Telepathy doesn't work like that, so there's no reason to assume there would be an equivalent increase in ability.
4.To quote the MCU Wiki

" Sling Rings are used by the Masters of the Mystic Arts to facilitate long distance travel where a temporary portal is desired. Sling Rings are worn on the second and third digits of the left hand when conjuring a portal, and this is achieved by the wearer tracing their right hand in an anticlockwise circular pattern while focusing on a destination beyond the space directly front of them. Most of the time they are simply carried until needed, typically somewhere on a user's belt. Each ring is uniquely crafted for its wearer."

Based on this, they should just be able to visualize "In front of X Character" and the portal will appear there.

5. Does Paige have feats of teleporting objects away from other people?