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  1. #16

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    I don't think it's helpful to start labelling heroes, A, B, or C list ect.

    As far as the traditional JLA members go, he would most likely be in the Atom/Firestorm/Zatanna range somewhere, but more popular or significant than Red Tornado or Phantom Stranger.

    -Traditionally he has been a key member of the Teen Titans since the 80's (that's his comic claim to fame)

    -An on off member of the Justice League dating back to his appearances on the Superpowers cartoon & comic (80's again)

    -He has had at least one solo series that I am aware of. About 5 years ago, I believe it lasted two years.

    -Finally, he has had notable appearances on DC animated movies, and video games if I am not mistaken. (Going off my head
    here)

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Sooooo...A? B? C? Which list is he on?

    If “A list” would be characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Iron-Man, Hulk, Captain America, etc. and “B list” would be considered characters like Nightwing, Green Arrow, Shazam, etc., then I would say Cyborg is definitely a B lister. Not a household name but pretty much every fan of pop culture would probably know who he is because of all his mainstream appearances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    He’s the lowest of the JL, but still one of DC’s most popular and well known black heroes. After the feud between Fisher and WB though, I suspect he will be quietly retired from marketing. Walker’s DC You series is probably the best stuff he’s been in, but it ends poorly thanks to editorial meddling and Vic hasn’t gotten any moments to shine really either on the League or with the Titans recently.
    I think there is definitely a connection between the Fisher situation and Cyborg’s apparent demotion at DC. The actor that portrayed the character in the most viewed incarnation is feuding and bad mouthing the parent company. No surprise that they’re making Cyborg less visible lately.
    Last edited by Robotman; 08-03-2021 at 11:31 PM.

  3. #18
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    If I truly have to label him, I'd say solid B-list. Probably had the potential to be more than that at some point, which sadly but not surprisingly didn't happen, but still one of the most recognizable characters or color in all of comics and one who should always have a place in the DCU.
    Last edited by Johnny; 08-04-2021 at 05:11 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    If “A list” would be characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Iron-Man, Hulk, Captain America, etc. and “B list” would be considered characters like Nightwing, Green Arrow, Shazam, etc., then I would say Cyborg is definitely a B lister. Not a household name but pretty much every fan of pop culture would probably know who he is because of all his mainstream appearances.
    I don't think that he would be at the same "list" as those characters (or at least they would be pretty much at opposite ends of the list).
    Nightwing, Green Arrow and Shazam have had long lasting solo books and have been leads of shows and movies, Cyborg has been mostly just been one member of a team.

  5. #20
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    I would say “B list but treated like C list” is an apt description :

    He has been on, if not affiliated with several teams and A-B list heroes to the point where he could be recognized in the fringes of mainstream consciousness

    Known widely as a Teen Titan and popularized in the 2003 cartoon

    Was in several notable shows, as a Titan, Doom Patrol and JLer ( The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians, Justice League Doom, Smallville, Justice League: Action, Young Justice Outsiders, Doom Patrol, Injustice: Gods Among Us as a Titan turned Leaguer, Young Justice Outsiders as an Outsider, etc) and most notably made the big screen in the 2017 Justice League/Zack Snyder Justice League film. Not to mention, the 2 Cyborg solo books that was plagued with numerous problems leading to both its cancellation.


    Like multiple posters have noted, the biggest problem is ultimately the editorial treated him as a throwaway character even when they were building him up and promoting him as one of the big seven. He should have been given a harder push (similar to Sam Wilson Captain America or Carol Danvers Captain Marvel, but you can say that for numerous POC Heroes in the DC Line up). It certainly didn’t help that Ray Fisher had the very loud and public falling out with Warner Bros execs.

    It seem Cyborg for every 2 steps he made, he took 4 steps back and now people still don’t know what to do with him.

    On the Justice League, treated as transportation only given a few meaty scenes. Solo title-editorial problems. Scott Snyder Justice League- pushed to the side for DCAU Based League and given JLO title. JLO - new writer put on, turned into a Jessica Cruz based book and failed its premise on multiple levels. Back with the Teen Titans- essentially relegated to a background character who is just there as a “professor”.

    Yes, he is one of the better known Black characters in the DCU, but to say he is treated as a second fiddle is an understatement, especially seeing how much better 75-80% he is handled in his adaptations.
    Last edited by ironman2978; 08-04-2021 at 12:29 AM.

  6. #21
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    I think he's fairly known to the wide audience thanks to shows like Teen Titans / Teen Titans Go, and the Justice League movie, but in the comics I'd rank him way below Green Arrow, Aquaman or Nightwing.

    It also seems like in many adaptations he's left outside his teams - he is not in the Titans show or in the upcoming Titans United book.

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    I'm genuinely curious about where the character stands in DC's hierarchy: both on a meta-brand equity level and an in-universe public/hero-community stature level.

    Cyborg has immense brand potential due to his being recognizable to the general / mainstream and , in some cases , non comic book reading audience. The character has been included in many media projects for a variety of reasons. but the bottom line is that the character has been used *often* in visual media and thus has marketing potential.

    Specifically David Walker, who wrote a Cyborg series, cited a study that revealed Cyborg was the 3rd most popular DC character at one point across several polls. THAT is brand equity (and cites meta analysis by DC in the past at the very least). When you speak of superhero aesthetics the Cyborg character is is literally one face plate removal away from having a higher Q score. The character shoots lasers from his hand, uses eye catching colors (which matters in toy design and marketing), can be portrayed as armored, can fly and appeals to multiple consumer demographics. Cyborg *should* be a pop culture I.P. goldmine or at least an ever green I.P. with regard to toys and cartoons. As an example Mega Man has been sending shipping containers full of merchandise around the world since 1987. That's what happens when you consistently push your character I.P.

    Cyborgs in comic universe stature .... if you define that as how the character is perceived by other DC characters he is absolutely respected as he has always been a part of big teams. If you define the characters stature based upon how he has been written and used by DC then the character has been mainly used as a prop (and that's me using polite language). The exceptions were his solo series.

    The question one should ask is ...if the character checks off so many positive boxes with regard to how he could be pushed and marketed *and* has been well received in visual media.....

    why has DC bungled his push in comics at best and deliberately stopped pushing the character at worst even *before* the Ray Fisher / Warner Brothers dispute?

    Cyborg has Low A list / High B List potential in visual media but currently is ...C list at best in comics. His comic potential is probably capped at high B list due to DC refusing to make minor changes to the character that would bring in more fans.
    Last edited by Customizer; 08-04-2021 at 04:32 AM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironman2978 View Post
    i would say “b list but treated like c list” is an apt description :

    He has been on, if not affiliated with several teams and a-b list heroes to the point where he could be recognized in the fringes of mainstream consciousness

    known widely as a teen titan and popularized in the 2003 cartoon

    was in several notable shows, as a titan, doom patrol and jler ( the super powers team: Galactic guardians, justice league doom, smallville, justice league: Action, young justice outsiders, doom patrol, injustice: Gods among us as a titan turned leaguer, young justice outsiders as an outsider, etc) and most notably made the big screen in the 2017 justice league/zack snyder justice league film. Not to mention, the 2 cyborg solo books that was plagued with numerous problems leading to both its cancellation.


    Like multiple posters have noted, the biggest problem is ultimately the editorial treated him as a throwaway character even when they were building him up and promoting him as one of the big seven. He should have been given a harder push (similar to sam wilson captain america or carol danvers captain marvel, but you can say that for numerous poc heroes in the dc line up). It certainly didn’t help that ray fisher had the very loud and public falling out with warner bros execs.

    It seem cyborg for every 2 steps he made, he took 4 steps back and now people still don’t know what to do with him.

    On the justice league, treated as transportation only given a few meaty scenes. Solo title-editorial problems. Scott snyder justice league- pushed to the side for dcau based league and given jlo title. Jlo - new writer put on, turned into a jessica cruz based book and failed its premise on multiple levels. Back with the teen titans- essentially relegated to a background character who is just there as a “professor”.

    Yes, he is one of the better known black characters in the dcu, but to say he is treated as a second fiddle is an understatement, especially seeing how much better 75-80% he is handled in his adaptations.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Customizer View Post
    Cyborg has immense brand potential due to his being recognizable to the general / mainstream and , in some cases , non comic book reading audience. The character has been included in many media projects for a variety of reasons. but the bottom line is that the character has been used *often* in visual media and thus has marketing potential.

    Specifically David Walker, who wrote a Cyborg series, cited a study that revealed Cyborg was the 3rd most popular DC character at one point across several polls. THAT is brand equity (and cites meta analysis by DC in the past at the very least). When you speak of superhero aesthetics the Cyborg character is is literally one face plate removal away from having a higher Q score. The character shoots lasers from his hand, uses eye catching colors (which matters in toy design and marketing), can be portrayed as armored, can fly and appeals to multiple consumer demographics. Cyborg *should* be a pop culture I.P. goldmine or at least an ever green I.P. with regard to toys and cartoons. As an example Mega Man has been sending shipping containers full of merchandise around the world since 1987. That's what happens when you consistently push your character I.P.

    Cyborgs in comic universe stature .... if you define that as how the character is perceived by other DC characters he is absolutely respected as he has always been a part of big teams. If you define the characters stature based upon how he has been written and used by DC then the character has been mainly used as a prop (and that's me using polite language). The exceptions were his solo series.

    The question one should ask is ...if the character checks off so many positive boxes with regard to how he could be pushed and marketed *and* has been well received in visual media.....

    why has DC bungled his push in comics at best and deliberately stopped pushing the character at worst even *before* the Ray Fisher / Warner Brothers dispute?

    Cyborg has Low A list / High B List potential in visual media but currently is ...C list at best in comics. His comic potential is probably capped at high B list due to DC refusing to make minor changes to the character that would bring in more fans.
    Gotta agree with this. Quite sad because DC has a great character for this modern hi-tech era that could be used to explore relevant concepts to the time. Instead, he still looks like he's from the 70's with that damn bulky design and face plate. He should be able to look fully organic and switch into an armoured mode and he should be sexually active. Relegating your most prominent black man character to being a freaking taxi driver with metal parts down there when every other Leaguer and Titan can get laid no problem IS a huge problem. How can you sell us cool wish fulfillment when you present us a castrated character and we're meant to overlook that?

    One of the problems with Cyborg is the same story we always get from writers: man vs machine. It's exhausting and he's both and there's so much potential there once writer's move past his Frankenstein-ish origin.

    He's a genius, he's an athlete, he's an elder statesmen of the hero community with ties to great teams and heroes. So I'd agree with your assessment that in outside media (his Doom Patrol depiction is the best his character has ever been depicted) he's easily Low A-High B, but in comics he's currently at C-level. He'll always be around for a group shot or small appearances in group books, but there isn't anything else being done with him to raise his profile and entrench him into greater DC lore.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning63 View Post
    They're probably going to switch to pushing Static or Blue Beetle.
    They’ve already started shifting the focus from Victor to John Stewart in terms of Marketing.
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  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    I guess all that shows is they see these characters as nothing more than interchangeable depending on what their corporate interests happen to be at the moment. They would put one character of color in another character of color's place and just pretend they never pushed the latter for all those past years to begin with. I don't know much about corporate America to put it mildly, but I'm curious about how those decisions are made at DC. If you had a long-term investment into certain characters, how do you suddenly just stop promoting them and start acting like they don't even exist anymore. Just look at Wally and Kyle, in regards to marketing Vic is really no different than them. He just started vanishing off of DC marketing just as quickly as he started showing up on it a decade or so ago.
    Last edited by Johnny; 08-04-2021 at 06:52 AM.

  12. #27
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    I think that maybe some people in comics are just analog and just don't understand or want to embrace modern technology. They're probably still a significant amount of old school executives making decisions because neither DC, Marvel, Dark Horse or Boom have really embraced technology and the internet of things on a wider scale. But newer technology can make interesting and new visuals in movies and comics. Around 2012 or some some hackers hacked into a MIT building and made it look like a giant Tetris game. This would be something that could make a great visual in a comic or movie. Imagine if Cyborg or maybe even Superman did the same thing, but instead of hacking into lights Cyborg hacked into the stars in the sky and made it look somewhat similar to Asteroids video game.

    Maybe in a decade or so things will change when new people take over.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Customizer View Post
    Specifically David Walker, who wrote a Cyborg series, cited a study that revealed Cyborg was the 3rd most popular DC character at one point across several polls. THAT is brand equity
    I'm wandering were these polls were made, I mean here at this side he didn't made it into the Top50 of the last popularity poll.

    I think even in polls for the favorit Teen Titan (for the animated show) he was usally not in the top 3, but that might of course have changed with Teen Titans Go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I'm wandering were these polls were made, I mean here at this side he didn't made it into the Top50 of the last popularity poll.

    I think even in polls for the favorit Teen Titan (for the animated show) he was usally not in the top 3, but that might of course have changed with Teen Titans Go!
    They were made along side the study that says aliens from space are actually running the world through the Illuminati...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    If you had a long-term investment into certain characters, how do you suddenly just stop promoting them and start acting like they don't even exist anymore. Just look at Wally and Kyle, in regards to marketing Vic is really no different than them. He just started vanishing off of DC marketing just as quickly as he started showing up on it a decade or so ago.
    Pretty basic. Goes something like...

    "This investment isn't paying off to satisfaction. Do something else."

    Or...

    "I believe we will make more money doing this instead of that."

    Or...

    "Hey, I just want to do this other thing instead."

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