Where does Cyborg rank?

[Johnny]

If Dick, Wally or Roy aren't stuck being Titans forever, I don't see why Cyborg should. He could be a part-time Titan, part-time Leaguer, part-time Doom Patrol member, or the occasional solo act. Why does he need to be pigeonholed as a Titan just because that's what he's been most known for.

[skyvolt2000]

Dial H For heroes and the Wonder Twins two somewhat recent 6 issue mini-series was both renewed for an additional 6 issues after some fans online started to praise the 2 mini-series. But at issue # 6 of both Dial H and the Wonder Twins there sales was only around 12,000 copies order but they got renewed any way.

However in BOTH cases those trade sales were very good. Those books were going after KIDS.

If you really want to judge what a title sells you have to look at issue 3-6.

Cyborg #6 was below 20K
To put in perspective Sam Wilson CA did do that until issue 22.
Miles Morales has NEVER done that.
Black Panther's first Coates run never did that. The second run did that a LOT.

Cyborg #23 was at 8,159. Here is who was doing better than him-Red Sonja, Squirrel Girl and MOON GIRL. Moon Girl did that MORE than once to Cyborg.

21 Image books had higher sales. Including a book called Kick Azz starring a BLACK WOMAN-whose book is still ongoing and she has outlasted every black female at the Big Two NOT named Moon Girl.

[skyvolt2000]

If Dick, Wally or Roy aren't stuck being Titans forever, I don't see why Cyborg should. He could be a part-time Titan, part-time Leaguer, part-time Doom Patrol member, or the occasional solo act. Why does he need to be pigeonholed as a Titan just because that's what he's been most known for.

Because DC is either UNWILLING or have not found the following for Cyborg.

The Christopher Priest-who did not care for Black Panther and gave him his longest solo run and set the standard for a King from Wakanda.

The Kevin Clash-who was tossed a muppet by a LEGEND in the Sesame Street Family and made that red muppet a household name.

The Kelly Sue DeConnick-who took a bland blonde and set the seeds to make her a billion dollar movie maker.

The Kyle Higgins-who took long dusted Power Rangers and expanded it in comics.

The Joss Wheldon-who took a FAILED movie and made a vampire slayer an icon.

The guy who took some cartoons to a Fox Network and Tracy Ullman and that show is still on the air 30 years later.

The guys who were told black comics could not sell and created a Milestone and a hit tv show-before guys with WAY more than Static got theirs.

Where is that person at who WOULD take Cyborg away from those teams and build him up?

Dick, Wally & Roy got those shots. Cyborg has NOT.

[king81992]

Because DC is either UNWILLING or have not found the following for Cyborg.

The Christopher Priest-who did not care for Black Panther and gave him his longest solo run and set the standard for a King from Wakanda.

The Kevin Clash-who was tossed a muppet by a LEGEND in the Sesame Street Family and made that red muppet a household name.

The Kelly Sue DeConnick-who took a bland blonde and set the seeds to make her a billion dollar movie maker.

The Kyle Higgins-who took long dusted Power Rangers and expanded it in comics.

The Joss Wheldon-who took a FAILED movie and made a vampire slayer an icon.

The guy who took some cartoons to a Fox Network and Tracy Ullman and that show is still on the air 30 years later.

The guys who were told black comics could not sell and created a Milestone and a hit tv show-before guys with WAY more than Static got theirs.

Where is that person at who WOULD take Cyborg away from those teams and build him up?

Dick, Wally & Roy got those shots. Cyborg has NOT.

That person is either not working for DC yet or hasn't been born. What I find frustrating is that the writers who did take Cyborg away from the teams did NOTHING to raise his profile. They had some interesting concepts but fell back on the trite 'am I a man, machine or monster?' narrative. It might've worked in the 80s(and even then Cyborg became more comfortable with himself as time went on), but such a narrative has no pull in the current year.

[mathew101281]

If Dick, Wally or Roy aren't stuck being Titans forever, I don't see why Cyborg should. He could be a part-time Titan, part-time Leaguer, part-time Doom Patrol member, or the occasional solo act. Why does he need to be pigeonholed as a Titan just because that's what he's been most known for.

All those characters have preestablished history that predates any involvement with the team. in Short Dick was never known primarily for being a Titan, the same goes for Wally, you have a case for Roy maybe, but he predates the team as well and he isn't exactly burning up the charts as a solo hero either. Vic has more in common with Raven and Starfire than he does with the three you mentioned.

[Ascended]

Like in terms of GP recognition? B list (at least with people younger than 40 ). There's a reason why Johns chose him to replace J'onn. John Stewart, Cyborg, and Static were the most prominent black heroes at the time, but Static has rights issues and is perpetually a teenager and Johns wanted to write Hal in the comics and eventual movies, so that left Cyborg.

Comics recognition, still B list. Most can point him out in a crowd, probably know the basics about him, and probably know the main teams he's been on, but he just doesn't have the fanbase tho to back it up as DC has done a pretty poor job trying to sell him.

He's treated like a C lister. They should've pushed him harder every step of the way... look at Carol Danvers over at marvel. It may have annoyed tons of people, but after relaunching her book like 5 times since 2012 and trying to make her as relevant as possible in just about every event, they finally have broken through and she has a book that sells just fine and will probably go on as long as the writer can keep it up. Cyborg sold well for like 3 issues and then Reis left and DC just kinda let the book slowly die.

This is about how I feel. DC treats Vic like an after-thought but the character has a large media profile going back to the 80's Super Friends and I feel like most people who have their fingers on the pulse of nerd/pop culture would recognize him, if not know much about him. Pushing Vic towards the A-list shouldn't have been hard but DC screwed it up in every possible way.

I think in-universe, Vic is well known. The Titans are a very well known team and the League are, of course, among the most well known faces on earth. Vic wouldn't be as popular as the Big 5 but I think he's more popular in the DCU than he is in reality.

[marhawkman]

I disagree. Raven, Starfire and yes Cyborg are popular because they are Titans. There is very little evidence that they are popular outside of that framework. In fact both Cyborg and Starfire’s dalliances with independence in the new 52 have kind of been lukewarm to bad at best.

I could see "breaking them up" if it meant separate team books. Dick has been in various teams over the years already.

[Aahz]

Dick, Wally & Roy got those shots. Cyborg has NOT.

Cyborg has way more solos issues than Roy, who has iirc 2 4 issue minis and a few one shots, and a short back up series in action comics.
Might have been on more different team than Cyborg, but that was also not really doing much for him.

[Aahz]

I disagree. Cyborg's first solo series debuted with 50K copies order. Cyborg Rebirth # 1 one shot had 60K plus. Cyborg Rebirth # 1 ongoing debuted with 50K copies ordered.

just to put it into perspective here is what the #1 issues of some characters sold in Rebirth, that typically sell on the lower end of what is necessary to keep an ongoing running.
So depending on your definition either Low A or high B List characters.

• Supergirl 90,000
• Red Hood and the Outlaws 83,000
• Deathstroke 83,000
• Nightwing 114,000
• Batgirl 96,000
• Green Arrow 70,000
• Aquaman 77,000

I haven't look at all numbers, but from quick glance it looks to me that Cyborg had actually one of the lowest selling #1 issues in rebirth.

[abetterday]

just to put it into perspective here is what the #1 issues of some characters sold in Rebirth, that typically sell on the lower end of what is necessary to keep an ongoing running.
So depending on your definition either Low A or high B List characters.

• Supergirl 90,000
• Red Hood and the Outlaws 83,000
• Deathstroke 83,000
• Nightwing 114,000
• Batgirl 96,000
• Green Arrow 70,000
• Aquaman 77,000

I haven't look at all numbers, but from quick glance it looks to me that Cyborg had actually one of the lowest selling #1 issues in rebirth.

I would say that for Cyborg does numbers are still good. Black Superheroes just do not sell at the same level as their White counterparts for whatever reason. The recent Static # 1 had 79K orders which makes it the best selling Black Superhero since Cyborg Rebirth for DC. also Cyborg in Dceased # 1 had a mind-blowing 280K+ copies ordered. Dceased was basically marketing as a Cyborg lead project with him kicking off the whole storyline.

[Restingvoice]

also Cyborg in Dceased # 1 had a mind-blowing 280K+ copies ordered. Dceased was basically marketing as a Cyborg lead project with him kicking off the whole storyline.

Wait, what? I'm sorry, but this is the first time I have heard about that.

What I heard from DCeased, as in, the main attraction, was that it's DC's Marvel Zombies, and people are either bored for the uncreativity or get interested because the first issue killed off Batman, who people think will last a long time as usual, because it seems now the story's gonna be unpredictable on who gets killed off.

The panel where Cyborg arrived on earth and spread the virus was spread around after the first issue came out, but after that, just looking at what people talk about, I don't know what happens to him, because most people I know only talk about Damian and Jon as the new World's Finest, Harley killing Joker, how the Justice League are taken out, or how Jason Todd becomes the lead of the spin off.

[skyvolt2000]

just to put it into perspective here is what the #1 issues of some characters sold in Rebirth, that typically sell on the lower end of what is necessary to keep an ongoing running.
So depending on your definition either Low A or high B List characters.

• Supergirl 90,000
• Red Hood and the Outlaws 83,000
• Deathstroke 83,000
• Nightwing 114,000
• Batgirl 96,000
• Green Arrow 70,000
• Aquaman 77,000

I haven't look at all numbers, but from quick glance it looks to me that Cyborg had actually one of the lowest selling #1 issues in rebirth.

All New Superman saw 100k it's first issue as well.

The first trade did rather well. Second did okay and third did as well as the book ended.

Cyborg's Rebirth trade vol 1 did not do well at first-in fact none of them did. However the first trade get see a boost long after the book ended.

Cyborg has way more solos issues than Roy, who has iirc 2 4 issue minis and a few one shots, and a short back up series in action comics.
Might have been on more different team than Cyborg, but that was also not really doing much for him.

Roy still got more stories than Cyborg. That were not limited to him just shooting arrows. We saw him with a lover and kid-who MANY took issue with her death. Now she is back in a Bat book.

Where is Cyborg's supporting cast? We haven't seen them since his book ended.

[king81992]

All New Superman saw 100k it's first issue as well.

The first trade did rather well. Second did okay and third did as well as the book ended.

Cyborg's Rebirth trade vol 1 did not do well at first-in fact none of them did. However the first trade get see a boost long after the book ended.




Roy still got more stories than Cyborg. That were not limited to him just shooting arrows. We saw him with a lover and kid-who MANY took issue with her death. Now she is back in a Bat book.

Where is Cyborg's supporting cast? We haven't seen them since his book ended.

Honestly, I wasn't a fan of the supporting cast Cyborg got in his solos. Whatever happened to Sara Sims? She was sort of his supporting cast in NTT. I don't think she's been seen in years.

[Aahz]

Roy still got more stories than Cyborg. That were not limited to him just shooting arrows. We saw him with a lover and kid-who MANY took issue with her death. Now she is back in a Bat book.

Both came out of New Teen Titans, a book where Cyborg was at the time on the main cast and Roy was just an occasional guest character.

I'm not really who of the two had more appearances, since Cyborg was introduced (comparing their overall appearances doesn't make much sense since Roy was created about 40 years before Vic), but both have been mostly on team books since than.

[Rac7d*]

He’s the lowest of the JL, but still one of DC’s most popular and well known black heroes. After the feud between Fisher and WB though, I suspect he will be quietly retired from marketing. Walker’s DC You series is probably the best stuff he’s been in, but it ends poorly thanks to editorial meddling and Vic hasn’t gotten any moments to shine really either on the League or with the Titans recently.

Most popular black dc character by default due to being in a long running animated series. Jon Stewart shares a mantle with 7 others and Static belongs to milestone.

But yeah don’t expect to see him too much over the next two years.