Magma and Polaris feats that make them Omega candidates

[dirtynun]

Magma is omega

Oh hi girl! Also I can't see your scan well.

[dirtynun]

Amara survived falling into a volcano and manipulated it with complete freedom in the first issues of New mutants she was seen creating Magma anywhere there is land, even in cities.
I know that maybe it is more amazing how a manipulator of reality But few are, and if we left, I insist neither Iceman nor Hope should be Omega.


And being honest most of the time Magna looks much more powerful than Boby for example.


Amara does not need extremely great feats of power, she only needs that in her type of power there is no other non-mutant being that surpasses in her power, and I do not know in Marvel another being that surpasses magma, Terrax perhaps although he specializes more in other things .

Ohk so arguments on why bobby is less powerful than Amara and why he abd hope shouldn't be omega because bobby has some crazy feats very omega level feats he can even make sentient life

Also rictor also demonstrated to be able to survive in molten magma so she has competition there and his power has been stated to be planetary. To be omega you must have first and foremost insurmountable power in your specific mutation. Amara gas not demonstrated insurmountable power a volcano over a city is great but it doesn't denote nigh unlimited power.

[dirtynun]

Hasn't Lorna been regularly mentioned in the past as having higher potential than Magneto's ?

That's what I keep hearing but haven't seen if you have a scan or issue of that please share.

[jwatson]

Honestly i still don't get people confusion with this. It says undefinable limit. Storm and Thor powers can both reach an undefinable limit in the same way or in their case different ways as storm powers work different. Jean and quentin powers are more similar and yet either can't be defined. The misunderstanding seems a tad messy. Thor has never used nanobot wind he created or healed a dimension. The reason forge was left off the list is not because reed was better but because Forge's upper limit could be defined as he is still limited to not being able to create materials out of thin air. a Technopath that could mentally create any sort of techonolgy regardless of if the material existed would of course surpass Reed.

In essence some people have just put up a block of identifiable upper limits vs. undefinable. No matter what forge create it will need some physical matter and someone of reed level could duplicate it thereby it is limited by physical material.

I just thought of the perfect example. If forge was able to make something completely new out of mysterium the only way to stop reed from doing the same would be denying him mysterium because he can't identify it's properties in any other metal but it's the metal not forge that stops him from reproducing the design.

[Krakoa]

There's no stipulation that there can be only one mutant for each category. Jean Grey and Quentin Quire are both listed as Omega telepaths. Which, again with what I said above, means Lorna and Magneto should both be listed as Omega if Magneto is.

There's no stipulation that one mutant should be in each category, no, but there is a stipulation of not being surpassed at all, which means that if Magneto can surpass Lorna, she is not Omega-Level (implying Jean and Quentin's powers are either equal or different enough so as not to surpass each other). Not saying I agree that should be the case, but that's clearly what is written by Hickman.

[salarta]

Which brings me a very interesting debate about storm and Thor which has already proven in canon to be superior to storm several times, even fighting against each other, this according to the Hickman rules should rule out Storm how does Omega not?

I can't really argue on who's "superior" or not since I don't know the characters and what they've done very deeply. But to be fair here, Storm's Omega status comes from weather manipulation in a much broader sense than Thor. Thor's capabilities are restricted only to the elements of storms, while Storm can influence weather that has nothing to do with storms. So even if Thor's stronger than Storm for storm-related weather - and again, that's a big if because I don't have the background to say any which way - Storm still counts as Omega by the definition and how they categorized her.

Now if only Marvel was as consistent and respectful with other characters.

[Filthy Mutie]

I don't see how creating or erupting volcanoes is an omega-level ability. Volcanoes are just the result of certain plate tectonic activities. Magma isn't rewriting how a planet's plates are configured, or how they interact with each other and the planetary layers below them. Maybe if she could control gravity on a continental/planetary scale?

It's like saying Storm is an omega because she can create hurricanes or tornadoes; Storm controls the fundamental atmospheric forces from which tornadoes and hurricanes are derived.

BTW, Thor doesn't control "weather" the way Storm can, nor does he have that symbiotic and/or telepathic connection to it.

As for Polaris, we may have seen characters talk about her potential to surpass Magneto, but we've never seen it; we've seen a lot of Magneto flexes that justify his omega status.

[Stormy]

As I said in the other thread, my issue with Lorna not being considered Omega, at the same time Magneto is considered Omega, isn't a matter of "teh awsum feetz." It's a matter of how the current definition Marvel has combined with what past comics have outright said about Lorna compared to Magneto mean she should be Omega if Marvel was following their own rules. And that Marvel choosing to ignore their own past work here is ensuring certain stories can't be told that not only should be, but actually were being told 20 years ago.

To put it another way, you can have a psychic character that has never done a single thing with their powers in the comics. No actual visible signs of what they can do and how they do it. But if Marvel's written stories where they outright say multiple times "Hey, this mutant could rival Jean Grey in telepathy" and then later had Jean say "This mutant's powers are comparable to mine, and maybe exceed them," then with the current definition, I expect them to be listed as an Omega telepath because Jean is. Actual displays of such are irrelevant.

And, frankly, digging into the weeds of feats like this is akin to reducing an argument to semantics over what the words you're using mean. It's arguing the "semantics" of what each individual person considers "impressive enough" uses of their powers. One person can say "Yeah I think lifting an entire ocean is Omega level." Another will say "No, I think being able to manipulate down to the tiniest of atoms is more Omega." As if it's not possible for both to count, and both be equally impressive in their own ways.

Long story short, what "feats" they've done isn't relevant if you have Marvel outright saying multiple times in past comics that a character who should be Omega fits all the same markers that allowed another character to become Omega.

I totally agree with what you said.
Polaris' biggest problem was that she left the X-mens too early and went to the X-factor, if she was with the X-mens until today, her powers would be better developed.

There were times in the comics when you could understand that Polaris was more powerful than Magneto, and I always saw Lorna having an easier time accessing the electromagnetic field, the energies than her father.







Issue: X-factor #123

[Mercury]

There's no stipulation that one mutant should be in each category, no, but there is a stipulation of not being surpassed at all, which means that if Magneto can surpass Lorna, she is not Omega-Level (implying Jean and Quentin's powers are either equal or different enough so as not to surpass each other). Not saying I agree that should be the case, but that's clearly what is written by Hickman.

I’d assume different because Jean has recently trained him and even taken over to do things he couldn’t do.

These rules are also why I think Jean should be classified as an Omega Telekinetic. She is Marvel’s first telekinetic, and it was her dominant power for the first few years. There really is no reason why she isn’t classified as such. In fact, I think her Omega Power classification should be Psionics, which encompass TP and TK.

[Daedra]

Oh hi girl! Also I can't see your scan well.

Somehow the picture looks bigger on safari but smaller on chrome………not sure why

[Saturius]

Honestly i still don't get people confusion with this. It says undefinable limit. Storm and Thor powers can both reach an undefinable limit in the same way or in their case different ways as storm powers work different. Jean and quentin powers are more similar and yet either can't be defined.

This. I am baffled why people keep trying to make this more complicated when it has already been clearly spelled out. The problem is people keep focusing on feats when that stuff does not matter. It doesn't matter that Thor has better weather showings or whatever. Storm might never be able to match his skills and power in her lifetime but that is irrelevant. Something about her powers makes it so that she is never gonna reach a definable limit to her abilities apparently. Look at Frost and Quentin. She is a much better telepath than him. But that doesn't matter. No matter how much better she gets or feats she has, she apparently is gonna hit an apex or zenith to her abilities. Quentin will never hit that if he keeps trying to better his powers, even if Frost will always be better and more skilled than him.

[sunofdarkchild]

Being able to make an earthquake or volcano thousands of miles from where those could occur naturally is very different from manipulating the edges of the tectonic plates. Her power involves the entire planet from the core to the crust and everything in between. I don't see how you can create an entirely new mountain in seconds where there is 0 tectonic activity or turn an area which has no potential for volcanic activity into a volcano and dismiss that as just the result of tectonics.

I can't get scans of New Mutants 50 where they fought Magus, but her own quote, which was backed by Xavier, was "my power may be the only thing keeping the planetary core stable and the world itself whole and intact." Her presence was the difference between the planet staying a planet or turning into an asteroid field like Alderaan.

And the idea that the current definition of Omega means limitless is debatable at best. The wording on the definition is deliberately vague and the part about being unable to be surpassed would be completely superfluous if that was what they meant. Outside of the highest-tier reality warpers like Legion I refuse to believe that any of these characters defined as Omegas have unlimited power. Magneto can't move all metal in the known universe at once and Jean and Quentin can't read all minds in the universe at once. If they were truly unlimited in their power they would by definition be able to do those things.

[Lucyinthesky]

This. I am baffled why people keep trying to make this more complicated when it has already been clearly spelled out. The problem is people keep focusing on feats when that stuff does not matter. It doesn't matter that Thor has better weather showings or whatever. Storm might never be able to match his skills and power in her lifetime but that is irrelevant. Something about her powers makes it so that she is never gonna reach a definable limit to her abilities apparently. Look at Frost and Quentin. She is a much better telepath than him. But that doesn't matter. No matter how much better she gets or feats she has, she apparently is gonna hit an apex or zenith to her abilities. Quentin will never hit that if he keeps trying to better his powers, even if Frost will always be better and more skilled than him.

Agreed it´s more like they have unlimited reach of their powers and this also has been talked about with Monarch, Mister M and Franklin, they all are reality manipulators but on different areas or their power expresses itself on different ways and to address Magneto´s case, it´s been said repeatedly his main problem when his powers get a temporal short circuit has a psycological origin and not in the way his powers generally work.The thing about him is that he already has big feats but those feats can be even bigger in the future because his reach is unlimited and the only thing that holds him back is his internal fight over methods and means as well as his fear of losing his mind while using his powers.

RCO023_1466223096 (2).jpg

RCO010_1466352829 (2).jpg

Now that I think about it, Franklin also has gotten short circuits of his powers after using them for an extended perioud of time or when he feels he´s been abusing them, same case with Jean Grey.

In the case of Lorna, I see her between Alpha and Omega, she has the same type of power Magneto has but we don´t know yet know if her reach is unlimited and when/if this happens then she will defintely be also an omega with or without Magneto on the list.

Now about Rogue, that´s also in question, because I think she has unlimited reach and it´s just that her powers work in different ways than those of Synch or Hope but of the three of them Hope is the only one considered omega.

I think the Omega label is still pretty ambiguous Hickman just added some rules to the category so it made a little more sense.

[jwatson]

This. I am baffled why people keep trying to make this more complicated when it has already been clearly spelled out. The problem is people keep focusing on feats when that stuff does not matter. It doesn't matter that Thor has better weather showings or whatever. Storm might never be able to match his skills and power in her lifetime but that is irrelevant. Something about her powers makes it so that she is never gonna reach a definable limit to her abilities apparently. Look at Frost and Quentin. She is a much better telepath than him. But that doesn't matter. No matter how much better she gets or feats she has, she apparently is gonna hit an apex or zenith to her abilities. Quentin will never hit that if he keeps trying to better his powers, even if Frost will always be better and more skilled than him.

Pretty much. Omegs are kind of like Super Saiyans. They are not inherently the most powerful but if a new threat shows up whereas Emma's abilities will always be defined in what the human mind knows of telepathy Jean will adapt to face gods, or aliens or whatever shows up. It doesn't even mean that she will be close to them in power it means her reach when introduced to an evolutionary challenge to her powers will always adapt to find a way in her specific catergory. If the univer changed tomorrow and the dynamics of what was psychic power changed tomorrow jean and quentin will find away while emma powers may still be beholden the the old physics of it. That imo is the difference with omegas. No matter the domain, terrain, dimension or laws of physics because their power can't be defined it will always find a way. They just need to live long enough to get there. It's not about feat at all. lol

[jwatson]

I totally agree with what you said.
Polaris' biggest problem was that she left the X-mens too early and went to the X-factor, if she was with the X-mens until today, her powers would be better developed.

There were times in the comics when you could understand that Polaris was more powerful than Magneto, and I always saw Lorna having an easier time accessing the electromagnetic field, the energies than her father.







Issue: X-factor #123

I think Polars biggest problem is for all intents and purposes she has not had her original x-gene until after her death in x-factor. Since before then she had whatever Apoc simulated with celestial technology. One thing imo we do know about lorna original x-gene is that given it is a gene that responds to stress and survival is a strong enough one to develop a secondary mutation. I would love to see that explored.

Basically Polaris i can see not necessarily being excluded from the list because she wasn't fully herself power-wise when the list was created. But i can't say anyone else would have thought of that detail while making the list.