Marvel's Ultimate Universe: Fantastic, Frustrating and Ultimately Forgotten

[Doctor Know]

I wanted to talk about the Ultimate Universe and how it is seemingly forgotten about. I know Ultimate Spider-Man's flame burns the brightest and Miles has been fully incorporated into 616. Also, Ultimate Reed Richards and Wolverine's son are running around the 616 verse. Everything else though, down the memory hole.

I was hoping Marvel would rerelease their titles in either deluxe hardcover or omnibus format. I know they recently rereleased Mark Millar's Ultimates omnibus and BMB's Ultimate Spider-Man omnibus (covering 40 issues out of 160) for Peter is getting a reprint release this fall.

Hickman's Ultimates run, Ultimate X-Men (pre and post Ultimatum), the rest of Bendis' run on Ultimate Spider-Man, Warren Ellis' books in the 1610 universe, and Ultimate FF are just MIA.



At this point, I feel the Ultimate universe has pretty much run it's course. But in it's day, it certainly had some hitters and hadn't reached it's full potential. Before Ultimatum came along and derailed it's progress in a malicious way.

How about you? Is anyone else nostalgic for the Ultimate Universe or have something to say about it, all they years later?

[CosmiComic]

I think the concept was good although the excessive violence wasn't necessary. I think Marvel could do good by bringing more of it back (unless it already has and I missed it)

[Huntsman Spider]

I think the concept was good although the excessive violence wasn't necessary. I think Marvel could do good by bringing more of it back (unless it already has and I missed it)

Not just the excessive violence, but the sheer cynicism bordering even on nihilism. I mean, Spider-Man (Peter Parker or Miles Morales) was practically the only hero in the Ultimate Marvel Universe who actually exhibited the spirit of a hero, while most of the others were at best jerks and @$$holes and at worst sociopaths who just happened to be on the "good" side, and a few of them turned into outright villains, anyway. Granted, the idea was supposed to be, "What would these characters look and act like if they were created in the beginning of the 21st century?" but it got turned into, "If they'd been created in the 21st century, they'd largely be self-righteous and/or self-interested @$$holes and sociopaths being presented as heroes for the public, and they'd be under the thumb or otherwise products of the U.S. military-industrial complex." Rather bleak reinterpretation of the Marvel Universe, and while it was successful for its novelty at first, Ultimatum was indeed where that bleakness and ultraviolence went too far and it went FUBAR (f***ed up beyond all recognition/repair).

[charliehustle415]

Not just the excessive violence, but the sheer cynicism bordering even on nihilism. I mean, Spider-Man (Peter Parker or Miles Morales) was practically the only hero in the Ultimate Marvel Universe who actually exhibited the spirit of a hero, while most of the others were at best jerks and @$$holes and at worst sociopaths who just happened to be on the "good" side, and a few of them turned into outright villains, anyway. Granted, the idea was supposed to be, "What would these characters look and act like if they were created in the beginning of the 21st century?" but it got turned into, "If they'd been created in the 21st century, they'd largely be self-righteous and/or self-interested @$$holes and sociopaths being presented as heroes for the public, and they'd be under the thumb or otherwise products of the U.S. military-industrial complex." Rather bleak reinterpretation of the Marvel Universe, and while it was successful for its novelty at first, Ultimatum was indeed where that bleakness and ultraviolence went too far and it went FUBAR (f***ed up beyond all recognition/repair).

Yup, exactly.

I think if they kept the tone of Ultimate Spidey throughout the line, it would be have been great.

But when you have writers like Millar helming flagship titles, you're in for a lot of trouble.

The whole line was meant to capture the youthful spirit of the golden age but every character except Pete & Miles were completely irredeemable.

[ed2962]

Yup, exactly.

I think if they kept the tone of Ultimate Spidey throughout the line, it would be have been great.

But when you have writers like Millar helming flagship titles, you're in for a lot of trouble.

The whole line was meant to capture the youthful spirit of the golden age but every character except Pete & Miles were completely irredeemable.

I was about to say this. Mark had done his run of The Authority ( although I believe the last few issues were greatly delayed) and was starting to really lean into his cynical take on superheroes. A bit of modern cynicism is fine, but it eventually became, "These guys are all a-holes, see how edgy we are!"

[CosmiComic]

Also, while permanent change is good, killing off a bunch of heroes at once is not so good.

[Huntsman Spider]

Also, while permanent change is good, killing off a bunch of heroes at once is not so good.

Exactly.

I was about to say this. Mark had done his run of The Authority ( although I believe the last few issues were greatly delayed) and was starting to really lean into his cynical take on superheroes. A bit of modern cynicism is fine, but it eventually became, "These guys are all a-holes, see how edgy we are!"

Yeah, true. I mean, I'm honestly sick of the idea that superheroes would at best be naive idiots who blunder into situations with their powers and make them worse through not knowing or understanding how the world "really works" and at worst be authoritarian, even despotic @$$holes who feel entitled to lord over "mere mortals" while deluding themselves and/or the public into believing they're the good guys. It'd be one thing if they were trying to say something deeper about the nature of power and how it could corrupt and consume otherwise well-meaning people, but yeah, a lot of the time, particularly more recently, it did become just an excuse to be as "edgy" as possible while revealing the depths of the writers' own cynicism, if not nihilism. Oh, and speaking of Millar, he was the same guy who did Civil War in 616 at the height of Ultimate Marvel's popularity, and those were pretty much the characterizations he ran with for both Captain America and Iron Man, where they were both seriously self-righteous, although Captain America was the naive idiot who didn't understand how the world today "really worked," while Iron Man was the authoritarian, even despotic @$$hole who had no problem throwing fellow heroes into extradimensional prisons for not following him in enforcing the Superhero (or Superhuman) Registration Act.

[Omega Alpha]

USM and Ultimates with Millar worked for the most part, but the other two never really had an idea of what they wanted. There was also a rush of introducing every possible 616 character as soon as possible. And Ultimatum killed it.

[Doctor Know]

Ultimates 2 was a bit out there for me towards the end. No one liked Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum. Fully indulging in Mark Millar's eccentric ideas is not a good look.

I thought Ultimate X-Men kept it together for the most part. I haven't read the last few volumes but I remember liking the first several.

Ultimate Fantastic Four was really hit and miss. The first two volumes are bland, minus the N-Zone arc. After that, you had the Marvel Zombie arc (before it became an unbearable meme), the Frightful Four, Namor, Super Skrull, Ultimate Galactus, the Squadron Supreme and the crossover with X-Men. These were really good and fun. Mikey Carey's run on Ult FF was really hit and miss, for me at least. The overly long God War arc, the Thanos and Cosmic Cube arc, the Diablo story and the Salem 7 story, all varied in quality throughout. The only solid story was the Silver Searcher (Surfer) story with the Psycho Man.

After Ultimatum, we had Hickman's and BMB take on the FF and both did really great jobs with them.

[your_name_here]

Everything runs it’s course. It’s comics and peoples interests.

We got Miles and The Maker from it, and they’re both dope as hell so that’s fine with me.

[CosmiComic]

Everything runs it’s course. It’s comics and peoples interests.

We got Miles and The Maker from it, and they’re both dope as hell so that’s fine with me.

Um, most of these characters have been around forever.

[Iron Maiden]

Exactly.



Yeah, true. I mean, I'm honestly sick of the idea that superheroes would at best be naive idiots who blunder into situations with their powers and make them worse through not knowing or understanding how the world "really works" and at worst be authoritarian, even despotic @$$holes who feel entitled to lord over "mere mortals" while deluding themselves and/or the public into believing they're the good guys. It'd be one thing if they were trying to say something deeper about the nature of power and how it could corrupt and consume otherwise well-meaning people, but yeah, a lot of the time, particularly more recently, it did become just an excuse to be as "edgy" as possible while revealing the depths of the writers' own cynicism, if not nihilism. Oh, and speaking of Millar, he was the same guy who did Civil War in 616 at the height of Ultimate Marvel's popularity, and those were pretty much the characterizations he ran with for both Captain America and Iron Man, where they were both seriously self-righteous, although Captain America was the naive idiot who didn't understand how the world today "really worked," while Iron Man was the authoritarian, even despotic @$$hole who had no problem throwing fellow heroes into extradimensional prisons for not following him in enforcing the Superhero (or Superhuman) Registration Act.

All I have to say about Mark Millar is good riddance to his rubbish.

[Iron Maiden]

I wanted to talk about the Ultimate Universe and how it is seemingly forgotten about. I know Ultimate Spider-Man's flame burns the brightest and Miles has been fully incorporated into 616. Also, Ultimate Reed Richards and Wolverine's son are running around the 616 verse. Everything else though, down the memory hole.

I was hoping Marvel would rerelease their titles in either deluxe hardcover or omnibus format. I know they recently rereleased Mark Millar's Ultimates omnibus and BMB's Ultimate Spider-Man omnibus (covering 40 issues out of 160) for Peter is getting a reprint release this fall.

Hickman's Ultimates run, Ultimate X-Men (pre and post Ultimatum), the rest of Bendis' run on Ultimate Spider-Man, Warren Ellis' books in the 1610 universe, and Ultimate FF are just MIA.



At this point, I feel the Ultimate universe has pretty much run it's course. But in it's day, it certainly had some hitters and hadn't reached it's full potential. Before Ultimatum came along and derailed it's progress in a malicious way.

How about you? Is anyone else nostalgic for the Ultimate Universe or have something to say about it, all they years later?

Didn't Ultimate Doom survive at least until the last incursion during Hickman's Time Run's out event? I thought he was fighting Ultimate Spider-Man at the end.

[Zero Hunter]

It was a good idea that was in the end done in by not having the correct writers on the books. To do this right you needed guys who really loved the MCU, and that sure isn't guys like Millar and Loeb. Something like this would be perfect for a writer like Mark Waid to head up.

[Huntsman Spider]

It was a good idea that was in the end done in by not having the correct writers on the books. To do this right you needed guys who really loved the MCU, and that sure isn't guys like Millar and Loeb. Something like this would be perfect for a writer like Mark Waid to head up.

Or who loved the superhero genre or concept in general, as opposed to interpreting it through a very cynical, if not flat-out nihilistic, lens casting superheroes as just another self-serving story told by self-serving individuals to ultimately justify and excuse themselves.