Omega Level

[Askani's Flame]

It's really simple. Jean has done things telepathically Xavier has not. Xavier has never switched bodies with sheer telepathic will. Jean is the only one to accomplish that and that feat is still undefinable. Quentin managed to mentally bring himself back and be aware when he was dead, something Xavier never did or any other telepath until legion with the resurrection protocols but a body already existed. Thor's powers have never changed to match the weather of what ever dimension or world he is one, he manifests his powers the same thereby it's undefinable how Storm powers work. Legion can call on many powers, no one can call on more powers than him not because he is the most powerful but because the number of personalities thereby powers he can create is undefinable. No one has actually done what magneto has done despite it being said others could. no one haas reached the levels of Exodus in TK despite the potential being said to be there by many. The list is as simple as putting a cap on what was potential and what was done and can't be defined. If a new writer comes along and rachel does something with her tp or tk that you can't identify as being done ever, then i'm sure she would make the omega list.

Rachel has already done said things, but she is not on the list: 1) sent her astral form across the universe without assistance; 2) created a mini blackhole through her tk; 3) has been shown to be able to exist as a non-corporeal psychic entity that can tranverse time and space after "death" (as Mother Askani).

Also, I'm a broken record on this, I really don't like that Exodus is considered an Omega given that his powers were augmented via Celestial technology via Apocalypse. I do think there could be some alterations to who should be on this list or replace others, but I do commend Hickman for trying to really hone in on a definitive list vs a list of writers pets that casually get added for an arc.

[Grinning Soul]

Rachel has already done said things, but she is not on the list: 1) sent her astral form across the universe without assistance; 2) created a mini blackhole through her tk; 3) has been shown to be able to exist as a non-corporeal psychic entity that can tranverse time and space after "death" (as Mother Askani).

Also, I'm a broken record on this, I really don't like that Exodus is considered an Omega given that his powers were augmented via Celestial technology via Apocalypse. I do think there could be some alterations to who should be on this list or replace others, but I do commend Hickman for trying to really hone in on a definitive list vs a list of writers pets that casually get added for an arc.

The way I see it, Rachel should be part of that list. It's really a no-brainer to me. I'd definitely place her there before Quentin Quire.

[Mercury]

Rachel most certainly should be on the list. (All of Jean’s children should be, tbh.) Wasn’t she the first mutant to be classified Omega Level?

[MechaJeanix]

The thing that surprised me most from the list is Omega (that mutant who is a VERY close friend of Mimic) not being an Omega, when his name is a reference to him being an Omega.
I think he should be just as powerful as Vulcan, they are very similar.

Other mutants who surprise me with regards to not being omegas are the 2 Xorn brothers, who can probably do all Magneto can do, + other things + destroy the planet by commiting suicide and creating a black hole

With regards to Jean, she hasn't always been an Omega. When Jean was resurrected in the 80s she was made weaker, to make her more usable, and she was an Alpha level mutant all the 90s until Morrison got her and gave her the Phoenix again. In Age of Apocalypse mutants were explicitely classified as omegas, alphas, or lesser kinds, and Jean was called Alpha level mutant, like Havok or Scott.
The big deal about Jean and Scott before Morrison, is that their genes combined perfectly to produce super powerful mutants, like X-Man or Stryfe (who is Cable without the techno organic infection) or Rachel who was Phoenix host for many years.

These 2 characters have been forgotten (Lionel Jeffries, who has been dead since the 80s) or very nerfed (Madison Jeffries), but I think they could make sense as Omegas with the new definition of Omegas, as transmutators or inorganic matter (Madison) and of organic matter (Lionel)
Lionel could kill Krakoa on his own by absorbing it

Someone else may have already addressed this so I apologize if I'm repeating. Jean and all of the characters in the 12 storyline were stated to be alpha level because the omega distinction hadn't been written yet. It came from the X-men Forever mini (the one in continuity and not the Claremont title with the same name that came out later). In X-men Forever Jean Grey discovers in Xavier's files that her and Iceman are considered omega level mutants. The distinction was noted for mutants with unlimited potential.

The other time the omega level distinction was used was by Nimrod when describing Rachel but there is nothing to suggest this is the same distinction. That one was from sometime in the 80s and it wasn't something that was followed up on.

Morrison did describe Jean as a grown up omega mutant in their run which was the next time it was used in connection to Jean.

Jean was not made weaker in X-factor when she was brought back. In fact her tk was said to have increased though you could argue she was weaker because at the time she couldn't access her telepathy.

Alpha level as a description doesn't seem to be used much anymore.

I do think there is some confusion from fans (partly due to fan wikis) about an omega level power and an omega level mutant. These are one and the same but yes due to the wikis and characters like Emma being described as one there is a lot of confusion about it. With Hickman's redefinition an omega level mutant is a mutant with a single omega level power.

Again my own opinion but when Emma was described as an omega level telepath and at one time a writer during an interview said Betsy was omega level telepath the concept had become so absurd it had jumped the shark and lost all meaning imo. Again both are powerful telepaths but how many omega level telepaths do we need (during this era wasn't both Xavier and Rachel said to be omega level telepaths as well as Quire.. .yikes!). I am glad we are back to just two omega level telepaths - edit: maybe more but we need to know more about the Arrako mutants.

I think the label can be interesting if the omega distinction is important like what we saw in Planet Size. If we have too many omegas then it becomes a meaningless concept. Also fans shouldn't get bent out of shape if their fav isn't omega... your fav is still strong and powerful (looking at Polaris, Emma, Betsy, etc.)

[Askani's Flame]

Rachel most certainly should be on the list. (All of Jean’s children should be, tbh.) Wasn’t she the first mutant to be classified Omega Level?

Yes, she was the first mutant to be classified by Nimrod as "omega" in the 80's. However since that issue the term has been drastically changed and no longer has the same intended meaning. I still think that based of her powerset she would be an omega for TK, but I'm not Hickman. I think part of the issue with the term omega is that it feeds into this fanboyism of a writer's favorite characters to elevate them. But then it makes it difficult for them or other writers to make villains that can match these new "gods". So inevitably you get Jean/Rachel/Storm/etc taken down by some no one or less powerful person to show how UBER this new person is that they took out an omega. I like what Hickman is doing with omegas as it gives them tangle goals and uses of their powers, vs op feats for a story arc.

[Mercury]

With regards to Jean, she hasn't always been an Omega. When Jean was resurrected in the 80s she was made weaker, to make her more usable, and she was an Alpha level mutant all the 90s until Morrison got her and gave her the Phoenix again. In Age of Apocalypse mutants were explicitely classified as omegas, alphas, or lesser kinds, and Jean was called Alpha level mutant, like Havok or Scott.

Jean has always been an Omega by definition. She was described as having “infinite mental powers” by a highly advanced robot in X-Men #48 (1968) and, even during the era you refer to (X-Factor), Destiny classified her as “a nexus of probabilities” and “an anomaly.”

[butterflykyss]

I hate to be that girl but Jean was hardly an omega based upon its current definition, at least during the stan lee era when she was first introduced. I know with a series of upgrades and retcons she became one but cyclops was considered the strongest xmen of the O5:







So yea no, she WAS NOT always an omega.

[Devaishwarya]

I'm good with HiX-Man's definition and list of Omegas. Absolutely no complaints from me.

[Mercury]

Jean has always been an Omega by definition. She was described as having “infinite mental powers” by a highly advanced robot in X-Men #48 (1968) and, even during the era you refer to (X-Factor), Destiny classified her as “a nexus of probabilities” and “an anomaly.”

Anyway, this proof is so utterly delicious to soak myself in. I mean, 1968! Did retcons exist back then?

Also, … [next post]

[Mercury]

This is Stan Lee writing Jean…

The very first issue (unfortunately, none of the others could do what had to be done):



Other issues during Stan Lee’s authorship:

[Mercury]

More of Stan’s Jean… 💅

[Mercury]

I’m sorry if it bothers some, but Stan loved him some Jean feats and wrote her as assertive, powerful, and formidable from issue #1. But of course, he created her…

[Omega_DCD]

I hate to be that girl but Jean was hardly an omega based upon its current definition, at least during the stan lee era when she was first introduced. I know with a series of upgrades and retcons she became one but cyclops was considered the strongest xmen of the O5:







So yea no, she WAS NOT always an omega.

"Based on it's current definition"...which states Omega level TELEPATHY, (not telekinesis)....so why are you posting TK instances, and during a time when Jean's TP was blocked.

As states and shown...later on when her TP is unlocked, we have an instance of Jean being described as having "infinite mental powers".

[orionblue]

I hadn’t realized that the Omega Level thread has become a showcase for Jean Grey feats.

Getting back to Omegas, I believe that a disservice has been done to both Rachel and Lorna. They should be categorically included as Omega level imho.

[butterflykyss]

"Based on it's current definition"...which states Omega level TELEPATHY, (not telekinesis)....so why are you posting TK instances, and during a time when Jean's TP was blocked.

As states and shown...later on when her TP is unlocked, we have an instance of Jean being described as having "infinite mental powers".

she didn't even start having telepathy. it was something Xavier gave her if I remember correctly and even still with infinite mental powers cyclops was still considered the strongest of the O5. I just wanted to point that out as someone indicated she was always omega and that wasn't true.