Omega Level

[dirtynun]

And yet, way back in issue number TWO, Jean still can sense that the Vanisher is a mutant, well before her TP is officially unlocked


...and at any rate, you're using the term Omega wrong




By a Nimrod, with no indication that it has the same connotation as how Xavier uses it...again, Greek letter rankings are generic....also Rachel was actively tapping into the Phoenix Force at that time...and still was unknowingly hosting its essence from the moment she physically shifted to this timeline

Actually Rachel's omega classification is very similar to Xavier's definition nimrod literally states the upper limits of subject a la Rachel is yet to be determined, same as undefinable upper limit.

[Mercury]

Me too, she's an amazing character, it's a shame that xoffice doesn't value her, but until she had nice little moments ​​in Excalibur.

Love it!!!

❤️❤️❤️

[dirtynun]

What would its omega power be? I like her, but I find her powers confused. Would she be omega in Empathy?

Yh how she is not omega actually baffles me her and Rachel especially... But for Gloriana I think her immense power can greatly be attributed to her fairy nature same with magik being half demon. But still she was snubbed if you ask me.

[Omega_DCD]

Actually Rachel's omega classification is very similar to Xavier's definition nimrod literally states the upper limits of subject a la Rachel is yet to be determined, same as undefinable upper limit.

While she was hosting the Phoenix Force

[Subliminally]

What would its omega power be? I like her, but I find her powers confused. Would she be omega in Empathy?

Wouldn't empathy be under the umbrella of Telepathy? She could perhaps be an Omega Level empathic metamorph?

[Havok83]

Wouldn't empathy be under the umbrella of Telepathy? She could perhaps be an Omega Level empathic metamorph?

It would and therefore empathy cant be something that could be considered omega on its own. Its a subclass of TP

I dont think it would work to classify her as omega for empathic metamorph; thats too specific. She's a metamorph and if anything it would be for shapeshifting. Her status would hinge on what if any limitations she has on that. Can she shapeshift at will or is that influenced subconciously by others and objects around her?

[Stormy]

Wouldn't empathy be under the umbrella of Telepathy? She could perhaps be an Omega Level empathic metamorph?

I think it depends a lot, Empathy and a sub-power of Telepathy, but it's not something that would affect much the telepaths Jean and Quentin, but it's because all of Gloriana's power is linked to Empathy, if I'm not mistaken she uses that to create a connection to the elements and matter (She spoke to the atoms of a concrete wall and then bent them so she could pass.)

[PyroFN]

Butterflykyss is right in the end. Jean wasn’t always the omega in its current definition in her history. Through editorial changes, Jean’s history has been changed. Her powers did technically grow with each era, but it wasn’t until after her death that writers changed the narrative to Jean being the most powerful mutant or psychic. This started, I believe with X-Men: First Class:







Thus, it was then followed suit by Fraction, where Scott determines Jean the most powerful psychic on the planet. This narrative follows to the current day where now writers and editorial want a narrative where Jean surpasses Xavier, demonstrating things do change.

http://https://aiptcomics.com/2019/0...-15-jean-grey/

“ AiPT!: Thanks for stopping by, Darren! On last week’s edition of X-Men Monday, Kevin Ong left a comment that said in recent years, Jean has been portrayed as the most powerful telepath–even more powerful than Charles Xavier. Is this an idea that you think should be maintained or would you rather return to the original status quo of Xavier being the most powerful mind on Earth?

Lonnie Nadler: I think it’s far more valuable if Jean maintains her status as the most powerful telepath on the planet (aside from Nate Grey, of course. Have you seen the stuff he’s doing in Age of X-Man? It’s crazy). If Xavier goes back to being the premiere telepath, it comes with the notion that nothing ever really changes, that everything reverts back to how it once was, in this eternal recurrence that runs the risk of feeling rather boring in a been-there-seen-that kind of way. Jean’s only just recently been resurrected and she’s come back with more conviction and purpose than ever and I’m personally far more keen on seeing what she can do when she’s uninhibited and second to none. If Xavier regains his status, it diminishes Jean and her abilities. We’ve rarely seen Xavier be subordinate to anyone, and the idea of the pupil outgrowing the master, while it is a trope, is bringing both characters to new places and will force them to not only act differently toward one another, but on the whole. Superhero comics tend to fall back to the status quo more often than not, it’s part of the genre, but an aspect I love about the X-Men is that they are one of the few teams and characters who have shown real growth over the years, and shifting the power dynamics of a group is one surefire way to ensure the inevitability change.“

[orionblue]

Butterflykyss is right in the end. Jean wasn’t always the omega in its current definition in her history. Through editorial changes, Jean’s history has been changed. Her powers did technically grow with each era, but it wasn’t until after her death that writers changed the narrative to Jean being the most powerful mutant or psychic. This started, I believe with X-Men: First Class:







Thus, it was then followed suit by Fraction, where Scott determines Jean the most powerful psychic on the planet. This narrative follows to the current day where now writers and editorial want a narrative where Jean surpasses Xavier, demonstrating things do change.

http://https://aiptcomics.com/2019/0...-15-jean-grey/

“ AiPT!: Thanks for stopping by, Darren! On last week’s edition of X-Men Monday, Kevin Ong left a comment that said in recent years, Jean has been portrayed as the most powerful telepath–even more powerful than Charles Xavier. Is this an idea that you think should be maintained or would you rather return to the original status quo of Xavier being the most powerful mind on Earth?

Lonnie Nadler: I think it’s far more valuable if Jean maintains her status as the most powerful telepath on the planet (aside from Nate Grey, of course. Have you seen the stuff he’s doing in Age of X-Man? It’s crazy). If Xavier goes back to being the premiere telepath, it comes with the notion that nothing ever really changes, that everything reverts back to how it once was, in this eternal recurrence that runs the risk of feeling rather boring in a been-there-seen-that kind of way. Jean’s only just recently been resurrected and she’s come back with more conviction and purpose than ever and I’m personally far more keen on seeing what she can do when she’s uninhibited and second to none. If Xavier regains his status, it diminishes Jean and her abilities. We’ve rarely seen Xavier be subordinate to anyone, and the idea of the pupil outgrowing the master, while it is a trope, is bringing both characters to new places and will force them to not only act differently toward one another, but on the whole. Superhero comics tend to fall back to the status quo more often than not, it’s part of the genre, but an aspect I love about the X-Men is that they are one of the few teams and characters who have shown real growth over the years, and shifting the power dynamics of a group is one surefire way to ensure the inevitability change.“

This is a great find.

I always find it interesting to read how writer’s viewpoints on characters change through the years and how it may or may not always reflect the fans opinions.

[MechaJeanix]

she didn't even start having telepathy. it was something Xavier gave her if I remember correctly and even still with infinite mental powers cyclops was still considered the strongest of the O5. I just wanted to point that out as someone indicated she was always omega and that wasn't true.

The problem with the scans you are posting are that you are selectively picking them out. All of the original X-men were students. They were still learning. They were still being trained in the use of their powers. They were different from the "All New X-men" squad with Storm, Wolverine and the others because Storm and the others were adults where as the 05 started as teens. Storm and the others were adults who knew how to use their powers... they didn't need that training. We didn't see Storm join as a young student who was still learning about her powers.

All of the 05 started as novices and their powers grew. Iceman and Jean grew the most over the years and thus they are considered omega level. It doesn't invalidate either character because they started at a different place. I can't believe this even has to be said.

Plus like others pointed out Jean's omega power is her telepathy and as soon as she was granted telepathy she was a capable one. Of course later Claremont would tell her origin and reveal that telepathy was her first power and that she was a powerful one. The Dark Phoenix Saga also reveals that Jean could surpass her teacher (Xavier).

Another poster brought up X-men First Class and in it Jean is stated to be very powerful. I do think this was an influence that came with the movies and the cartoons (Evolution and Wolverine and the X-men) because in both those universes Jean was very powerful even as a child.

But also in the main universe all through the 90's Jean was stated to be either the second most powerful telepath (Xavier being number 1) or being stated to be the most powerful (like after Onslaught). I would actually like to know when Jean eclipsed Xavier as the most powerful telepath but I have a feeling that was Morrison's run (and the same goes for Quire - since in that run both Jean and Quire were stated to be omega level).

[Mercury]

Again, she was defined as having “infinite mental powers” by a highly advanced robot in X-Men #48 back in 1968.

“Infinite” = “undefinable upper limit” = “Omega Level”

So, yes, by definition, she has been an Omega Level mutant and recognized in the comics as such since 1968.

[orionblue]

The problem with the scans you are posting are that you are selectively picking them out. All of the original X-men were students. They were still learning. They were still being trained in the use of their powers. They were different from the "All New X-men" squad with Storm, Wolverine and the others because Storm and the others were adults where as the 05 started as teens. Storm and the others were adults who knew how to use their powers... they didn't need that training. We didn't see Storm join as a young student who was still learning about her powers.

All of the 05 started as novices and their powers grew. Iceman and Jean grew the most over the years and thus they are considered omega level. It doesn't invalidate either character because they started at a different place. I can't believe this even has to be said.

Plus like others pointed out Jean's omega power is her telepathy and as soon as she was granted telepathy she was a capable one. Of course later Claremont would tell her origin and reveal that telepathy was her first power and that she was a powerful one. The Dark Phoenix Saga also reveals that Jean could surpass her teacher (Xavier).

Another poster brought up X-men First Class and in it Jean is stated to be very powerful. I do think this was an influence that came with the movies and the cartoons (Evolution and Wolverine and the X-men) because in both those universes Jean was very powerful even as a child.

But also in the main universe all through the 90's Jean was stated to be either the second most powerful telepath (Xavier being number 1) or being stated to be the most powerful (like after Onslaught). I would actually like to know when Jean eclipsed Xavier as the most powerful telepath but I have a feeling that was Morrison's run (and the same goes for Quire - since in that run both Jean and Quire were stated to be omega level).

The funny thing (in bold above) is how everyone does this (some so profusely that it gets old) when trying to explain their favorite character or when trying to detract from another character.

That’s what makes these types of discussions so entertaining and so vexing sometimes.




Edit: Added italics and additional parenthetical comment

[Mercury]

I would also like to note Hickman's definition of Omega Level Mutant, which is as follows: "A mutant whose dominant power is deemed to register - or reach - an undefinable upper limit of that power's specific classification."

It is clear that Hickman's definition is meant to address potential more than documented feats, but I may be wrong. In either case, Jean's mental powers were deemed infinite over fifty years ago. That some have overlooked this or chosen to bury it for their own intents and purposes is of no consequence to me or to the potential of her power as it stands. Thankfully, most writers have remained respectful of canon and made clear that she is the most powerful mind on the planet.

Furthermore, this is precisely why I feel she should be categorized as an Omega Psionic. The term psionic encompasses telepathy and telekinesis, and since she was described as having "infinite mental powers," it stands to reason that the finely tuned and highly advanced robot was referring to her combined mental powers, i.e., both her telepathy and telekinesis.

[Mercury]

Even Hickman knows...



EDIT: The comment I tweeted this image with:

Jonathan Hickman admitting that Jean Grey is "slightly above the others" in terms of Omega Level classification makes me tingle. #OmegaThings 💅

[MechaJeanix]

The funny thing (in bold above) is how everyone does this (some so profusely that it gets old) when trying to explain their favorite character or when trying to detract from another character.

That’s what makes these types of discussions so entertaining and so vexing sometimes.




Edit: Added italics and additional parenthetical comment

I don't mind the use of scans to aid an argument and you are right that we all selectively choose scans but this example was particularly egregious. But yes the Storm vs. everyone is tiresome because Storm is a great character and so are all the other female characters. Jean being powerful takes nothing away from Storm but yet a ton of saltiness from certain corners.

I love that both Storm and Jean get to be omega level and it gives them a certain distinction. Though it is more important that they get some story and character development than be reduced to just feats (though feats can be fun and can be interesting if used creatively).