Omega Level

[orionblue]

I don't mind the use of scans to aid an argument and you are right that we all selectively choose scans but this example was particularly egregious. But yes the Storm vs. everyone is tiresome because Storm is a great character and so are all the other female characters. Jean being powerful takes nothing away from Storm but yet a ton of saltiness from certain corners.

I love that both Storm and Jean get to be omega level and it gives them a certain distinction. Though it is more important that they get some story and character development than be reduced to just feats (though feats can be fun and can be interesting if used creatively).

Nicely put! Both characters can be shown to be powerful in their own right - with or without augmentation by cosmic entities.

[Mercury]

Even Hickman knows...



EDIT: The comment I tweeted this image with:

This will not be lost in the shuffle. Carry on.

[Subliminally]

I was under the impression that Hickman disliked Jean but this is high praise.

[Stormy]

Even Hickman knows...



EDIT: The comment I tweeted this image with:

Honestly, I think he totally disregarded the story of other writers, and the concept, as I see it, is one of the mutants on the list who has had his powers exploited to the point where he's considered a true Goddess, that's quite a feat, but I'm not. surprised, he never cared much about the Storm

[LordAllMIghty]

This will not be lost in the shuffle. Carry on.

And what did Jean and Legion do during his run.

I call this some major BS.

[Mercury]

I was under the impression that Hickman disliked Jean but this is high praise.

People assumed that because he started having her refer to herself as Marvel Girl and dressing in her old costume again. However, he gave a vague though telling reason for why he did this (source: https://aiptcomics.com/2019/10/14/x-...f-x-questions/). Furthermore, from the very beginning he categorized her role in his story as “prominent” (source: https://aiptcomics.com/2019/06/10/x-...-15-jean-grey/). Finally, he did write her to be the first to step down from her role in the Quiet Council, decline the offer from Xavier and Erik to rejoin, announce the formation of the new team, and officially and publicly announce the elected members. People, especially detractors of Jean, have sorely mistaken his subtle but pivotal use of her for him disliking her. He has always struck me as the type of writer who keeps a well guarded ace up his sleeve, especially if it’s meant to win the game.

Also, I've always found how he has differentiated her telepathic superiority from Xavier and Emma very telling (source: https://aiptcomics.com/2020/02/17/x-...men-questions/)...

And Inferno is coming…

[Subliminally]

People assumed that because he started having her refer to herself as Marvel Girl and dressing in her old costume again. However, he gave a vague though telling reason for why he did this (source: https://aiptcomics.com/2019/10/14/x-...f-x-questions/). Furthermore, from the very beginning he categorized her role in his story as “prominent” (source: https://aiptcomics.com/2019/06/10/x-...-15-jean-grey/). Finally, he did write her to be the first to step down from her role in the Quiet Council, decline the offer from Xavier and Erik to rejoin, announce the formation of the new team, and officially and publicly announce the elected members. People, especially detractors of Jean, have sorely mistaken his subtle but pivotal use of her for him disliking her. He has always struck me as the type of writer who keeps a well guarded ace up his sleeve, especially if it’s meant to win the game.

Also, I've always found how he has differentiated her telepathic superiority from Xavier and Emma very telling (source: https://aiptcomics.com/2020/02/17/x-...men-questions/)...

And Inferno is coming…

I agree with his assessment on Jean's telepathy and it falls directly in line with her character. I can see Emma and Monet being characterized as 'cold', but Xavier? Oh well, different topic lol.

[PyroFN]

And what did Jean and Legion do during his run.

I call this some major BS.

Legion is a perplexing one, but Jean was extremely prominent in Hickman’s run, being a Council member, important in the mission of notifying Xavier that the X-Men had died when they were trying to stop the creation of Nimrod, standing up to the council with Scott during X of Swords, she helped start what is basically a mutant version of the CIA, was intrinsic on helping find Xander’s when she was kidnapped, and being the one to be collect the votes of the X-Men election.

There are problem’s with Hickman’s Jean Grey, but she definitely played an important role in his X-Men run.

[Mercury]

There are problem’s with Hickman’s Jean Grey, but she definitely played an important role in his X-Men run.

And his run is still not done. Furthermore, his upcoming story is titled after and seems to be an homage to a story in which she was extremely central and pivotal.

[LordAllMIghty]

Legion is a perplexing one, but Jean was extremely prominent in Hickman’s run, being a Council member, important the mission of notifying Xavier that the X-Men died, standing up to the council with Scott during X of Swords, she helped start what is basically a mutant version of the CIA, what intrinsic on helping find Xander’s when she was kidnapped, and being the one to be collect the votes of the X-Men election.

There are problem’s with Hickman’s Jean Gre, but she definitely played an important role in his X-Men run.

Jean didn't do anything OMEGA level during Hickman's run...which is sad as the potential stories could have been off the charts.

[Omega_DCD]

Butterflykyss is right in the end. Jean wasn’t always the omega in its current definition in her history. Through editorial changes, Jean’s history has been changed. Her powers did technically grow with each era, but it wasn’t until after her death that writers changed the narrative to Jean being the most powerful mutant or psychic.

I really don't get what their point is supposed to be. Brass tacks, nobody was "Omega" until they were described as such, and canonically, that didn't start to happen until 2001 in the X-Men Forever (and the same two that started it, are still considered Omega level mutants today, so there is a clear throughline connecting the new and the old definition).

And regardless, Jean has clearly always been on an upward development curve...not just retcons and prequel series. Of the O5 during the original run, she's the only one to gain an extra power, she's the only one that holds the rest of the team at bay, she clearly gets stronger and as noted, is even described as having infinite mental powers. That is not a post-year 2000 "modernization"...that happened in the late 60s...pre-Claremont, pre-Phoenix, pre-Highest/First Order, pre-Omega. On the contrary, those modernizations of Jean's early power levels fit because of the fact that seeds were planted back then to build off of...Jean is also shown being able to handle the same millions of churning thought patterns, in its original form, that Xavier has spent months preparing to gather and link, and with way less prep time.

As you've even noted, Jean has grown in every era. Even in the 70s before the Phoenix transformation, it's noted that Jean's TK is stronger than before, as she projects bolts of TK force strong enough to knock Sentinels off the roof. Her telepathy is stronger and more skilled as well, as she's able to isolate and instantly transfer Corbeau's knowledge of how to pilot the space shuttle. After becoming Phoenix, Moira says she and Charles always suspected she had that kind of potential.

As far as I'm concerned, Omegas(true Omegas...I still side-eye Vulcan and Exodus) are born Omegas, even if they aren't mega-powerful right out of the womb...just as mutants are born mutants, even if their mutation doesn't typically catalyze until puberty or a traumatic event.

So again, I don't see what pointing out that, for VERY OBVIOUS REASONS, Jean wasn't called an Omegal level mutant in issue #1 of X-Men in 1963, is supposed to accomplish.. She was clearly a character that was written to grow and develop.

[Mercury]

I really don't get what their point is supposed to be. Brass tacks, nobody was "Omega" until they were described as such, and canonically, that didn't start to happen until 2001 in the X-Men Forever (and the same two that started it, are still considered Omega level mutants today, so there is a clear throughline connecting the new and the old definition).

And regardless, Jean has clearly always been on an upward development curve...not just retcons and prequel series. Of the O5 during the original run, she's the only one to gain an extra power, she's the only one that holds the rest of the team at bay, she clearly gets stronger and as noted, is even described as having infinite mental powers. That is not a post-year 2000 "modernization"...that happened in the late 60s...pre-Claremont, pre-Phoenix, pre-Highest/First Order, pre-Omega. On the contrary, those modernizations of Jean's early power levels fit because of the fact that seeds were planted back then to build off of...Jean is also shown being able to handle the same millions of churning thought patterns, in its original form, that Xavier has spent months preparing to gather and link, and with way less prep time.

As you've even noted, Jean has grown in every era. Even in the 70s before the Phoenix transformation, it's noted that Jean's TK is stronger than before, as she projects bolts of TK force strong enough to knock Sentinels off the roof. Her telepathy is stronger and more skilled as well, as she's able to isolate and instantly transfer Corbeau's knowledge of how to pilot the space shuttle. After becoming Phoenix, Moira says she and Charles always suspected she had that kind of potential.

As far as I'm concerned, Omegas(true Omegas...I still side-eye Vulcan and Exodus) are born Omegas, even if they aren't mega-powerful right out of the womb...just as mutants are born mutants, even if their mutation doesn't typically catalyze until puberty or a traumatic event.

So again, I don't see what pointing out that, for VERY OBVIOUS REASONS, Jean wasn't called an Omegal level mutant in issue #1 of X-Men in 1963, is supposed to accomplish.. She was clearly a character that was written to grow and develop.

You thrill me, Omega. Everything you said, but I would add, "She was clearly a character that was written to grow and develop[, but who was categorized as extremely powerful very early in her comic book "career."]"

#NEVER4GET

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean didn't do anything OMEGA level during Hickman's run...which is sad as the potential stories could have been off the charts.

She barely did anything run-of-the-mill powered mutant level lol

[Steroid]

Even Hickman knows...



EDIT: The comment I tweeted this image with:

The grammar errors in this"tweet" doesn't seem very Hickman like... I mean like at all

[Mercury]

The grammar errors in this"tweet" doesn't seem very Hickman like... I mean like at all

Thank you for pointing this out. I'm currently doing some investigating to see if I can find anything on Twitter or this forum that substantiates this screenshot. It's driving me quite mad now, actually, lol.