Omega Level

[jwatson]

I have a doubt that may not have much to do with the topic proposal but, can Magic and Mystic Powers also be acquired by mutation? An example is some character having the mutated power to manipulate magic?

I think they can. Personally i think if wanda was still a mutant she would be omega level: magic manipation as it bas been said many times what she has been capable of with magic is undefinable even by strange and others. Its also in the mu fundamental force.

Not to mention mutants are call witchbreed in some dimensions, wanda is a witch.

[GeneTitan]

It's really simple. Jean has done things telepathically Xavier has not. Xavier has never switched bodies with sheer telepathic will. Jean is the only one to accomplish that and that feat is still undefinable. Quentin managed to mentally bring himself back and be aware when he was dead, something Xavier never did or any other telepath until legion with the resurrection protocols but a body already existed. Thor's powers have never changed to match the weather of what ever dimension or world he is one, he manifests his powers the same thereby it's undefinable how Storm powers work. Legion can call on many powers, no one can call on more powers than him not because he is the most powerful but because the number of personalities thereby powers he can create is undefinable. No one has actually done what magneto has done despite it being said others could. no one haas reached the levels of Exodus in TK despite the potential being said to be there by many. The list is as simple as putting a cap on what was potential and what was done and can't be defined. If a new writer comes along and rachel does something with her tp or tk that you can't identify as being done ever, then i'm sure she would make the omega list.

Thank you for this response. I love how you respond with intent to clarify and not be snarky and rude. I appreciate your posts. You are one of the people who make the board worthwhile.

[jwatson]

Thank you for this response. I love how you respond with intent to clarify and not be snarky and rude. I appreciate your posts. You are one of the people who make the board worthwhile.

Thanks, i appreciate that.

[useridgoeshere]

I liked whoever said they talked about all kinds of powers, like what would Omega level bone claws be. Seems like strength and speed (even Northstar) would never have an Omega.

I have a doubt that may not have much to do with the topic proposal but, can Magic and Mystic Powers also be acquired by mutation? An example is some character having the mutated power to manipulate magic?

I actually wondered if Magik is an Omega-level teleporter. She seems to be able to jump anywhere, anywhen, and make huge stepping discs when she wants to.

Manifold seems pretty Omega as a space folder or whatever he is (since he's not technically a teleporter now?) in SWORD.

[Soulsword323]

I've always enjoyed the concept of Omega Mutants. This idea that there are certain Mutants that have unlimited potential was a cool idea, but unfortunately writers took that concept and diluted it. Suddenly every Mutant was becoming an Omega, and it just got ridiculous.

I'm thankful that Hickman came in and gave the concept clarity and was able to create a definitive list. It might not be perfect, but I'm fine with the way it is, and don't think it really needs any amending.

[The tall man]

I've always enjoyed the concept of Omega Mutants. This idea that there are certain Mutants that have unlimited potential was a cool idea, but unfortunately writers took that concept and diluted it. Suddenly every Mutant was becoming an Omega, and it just got ridiculous.

I'm thankful that Hickman came in and gave the concept clarity and was able to create a definitive list. It might not be perfect, but I'm fine with the way it is, and don't think it really needs any amending.

100% agree. It seems like now everyone wants their personal fave to be an omega. I mean will being declared an omega make the character better somehow, will they turn into some all-powerful, unbeatable curb stomper? Some take it as a slight against a certain character that they didn't make Hickman's omega list, as if being made omega somehow makes someone superior; it doesn't. Omegas can still be depowered, defeated and killed, ultimately the label means nothing if every mutant suddenly becomes omega it loses all meaning and relevance. And honestly it's practically at that point now.

[Paleo_Rage]

The interesting thing for me about Hickman's Omega list is that it shows how some mutations arent omega and that is ok. Not all mutations can be omega level. I think understanding the inherent limitations of some abilities is important. And I agree, I do think its quite interesting that folks are so mad about Storm being omega where as we know that to control weather to the degree she does would have to be omega level. If anyone has experienced an hurricane, a thunderstorm, a blizzard, a tornado, etc. That is a lot of power over a high scale. To do what does in comic books you have to be omega.

[CGAR]

I get why its cool and why people like the idea of OMEGA mutants but I will never understand this need for fans ravenously proclaim that a favorite characters is, needs or has to be an OMEGA.

[Stormy]

I think they can. Personally i think if wanda was still a mutant she would be omega level: magic manipation as it bas been said many times what she has been capable of with magic is undefinable even by strange and others. Its also in the mu fundamental force.

Not to mention mutants are call witchbreed in some dimensions, wanda is a witch.

Hmm, I respect your opinion, although I don't think I should. In my opinion, Magic and Mutation can be similar, but it should never be a mixture, as specifically Magic is something very comprehensive, to start having Mutants with mutant magical powers, I always saw them as having a certain barrier, I don't care about the fact that some mutants can have a mystical side like Storm and her Divinity, Illyana and Limbo, are linked but not mixed. For me, if a Wanda goes back to being a mutant I see more that she might have a mutant power to manipulate like probabilities, whether they are omega or not, but her magic would be related to the genetics of her family and Chthon. And isn't there some place where mutants are more likely to be involved with magic than humans?

[PyroFN]

It's really simple. Jean has done things telepathically Xavier has not. Xavier has never switched bodies with sheer telepathic will.

Technically not true.

While Jean has done stuff that Xavier has not done before, Jean is not the only one to switch bodies by will alone. Emma Frost has switched with Storm and Betsy in the Sisterhood arc switched from her original back to her Asian one. There are feats that make Jean an Omega, but this isn’t one of them.

Quentin managed to mentally bring himself back and be aware when he was dead, something Xavier never did or any other telepath until legion with the resurrection protocols but a body already existed.

Xavier was explicitly still existent and aware he was dead back in Astonishing. Heck, even a piece of him was aware of it in AXIS, fighting back against Red Onslaught. Xavier didn’t have any telekinesis to make a new body back then, but he did take Fantomex’ body briefly in Astonishing before he was killed in X-Force.

No one has actually done what magneto has done despite it being said others could. no one haas reached the levels of Exodus in TK despite the potential being said to be there by many. The list is as simple as putting a cap on what was potential and what was done and can't be defined. If a new writer comes along and rachel does something with her tp or tk that you can't identify as being done ever, then i'm sure she would make the omega list.

Eh. I have problems with Exodus’ tk feats being claimed to be a greater level than most telekinetics in the Summers-Grey family, though I won’t argue his placement.

That in mind, the old definition is potential. Hickman’s definition explicitly is about raw power, pure and simple. The example of Jean’s tk being what he uses and the comparison where Iron Man has greater technopathic intellect than Forge, despite Forge supposedly being the best in his class among the mutant populace.

[Mercury]

While Jean has done stuff that Xavier has not done before, Jean is not the only one to switch bodies by will alone. Emma Frost has switched with Storm and Betsy in the Sisterhood arc switched from her original back to her Asian one. There are feats that make Jean an Omega, but this isn’t one of them.

It was pointed out to me recently that Emma used a “gun” to switch bodies with Storm, not her own powers. However, I don’t know what she did with Betsy. (I have so many stories to catch up on.)

Jean once transferred her psyche into Emma’s dead body to survive a Sentinel attack, though, and used it for a time.

[PyroFN]

Other mutants who surprise me with regards to not being omegas are the 2 Xorn brothers, who can probably do all Magneto can do, + other things + destroy the planet by commiting suicide and creating a black hole

Not really. New X-Men clearly stated that Kuan Yin Xorn needed the drug Kick to even reach Magneto’s casual levels. And after Planet-Sized, it’s pretty clear Magento is beyond the Xorn brothers after summoning multiple iron asteroids from the Kuiper belt, which lie at The edge of the solar system.

With regards to Jean, she hasn't always been an Omega. When Jean was resurrected in the 80s she was made weaker, to make her more usable, and she was an Alpha level mutant all the 90s until Morrison got her and gave her the Phoenix again. In Age of Apocalypse mutants were explicitely classified as omegas, alphas, or lesser kinds, and Jean was called Alpha level mutant, like Havok or Scott.

That is because Omega wasn’t a popular term back then. Alpha was.

Rachel was the first to be coined the term as Phoenix back in the Claremont days. Yet, it’s usage went largely unused in favor of Alpha’s. In the Age of Apocalypse, Alpha Class mutants were considered the pinnacle of mutant potential. They were so valuable that when Jean was captured, unlike her prisoners, she was given the treatment of Apocalypse’s Prelates. The shift in importance to Omega came in the 2000’s.

So, even in the respects of Jean prior to being called an Omega, she was supposed to be a psi or mutant of the highest class potential. Her subordinance was only to come to Xavier, Exodus (for a brief time in the early 90’s), Cable and Nate Grey (late-90’s).

Things in the end change though, to where now Jean and Quentin serve as the respective holders of the title. The only one who puts this into question is Nate Grey, who isn’t around to be classified in this new era.

The big deal about Jean and Scott before Morrison, is that their genes combined perfectly to produce super powerful mutants, like X-Man or Stryfe (who is Cable without the techno organic infection) or Rachel who was Phoenix host for many years.

True. As said before, things changed. Oddly enough, though the definition of Omega did hint that if Jean were to keep training, maybe she would surpass Xavier, it is in the mid to late-2000’s where Jean’s narrative shifts to being called the most powerful mutant or telepath on the planet. She is dead at this time though, so this new class doesn’t interfere with other classifications still saying Xavier is the current most powerful because…well, she is dead. And her teen self couldn’t oppose it either because she had no training and didn’t nurture her psionics. So, for every intent and purpose, Xavier and Jean simultaneously maintained their positions even after both their deaths, with Xavier’s brain giving Red Skull that classifications. After them, Emma would take the position if Xavier and Jean wasn’t around and then Rachel after Emma is depowered in post-AvX. It’s really interesting the politics of furring psi’s as you look at the history.

[Omega_DCD]

Technically not true.

While Jean has done stuff that Xavier has not done before, Jean is not the only one to switch bodies by will alone. Emma Frost has switched with Storm and Betsy in the Sisterhood arc switched from her original back to her Asian one. There are feats that make Jean an Omega, but this isn’t one of them.

Emma required an external mechanical device(a gun) to swap bodies with Storm...and I don't remember the particulars about the Sisterhood arc, been a long time...any scans if you have them? I just know in the Hunt for Wolverine arc, she required some remnant soul energy from Sapphire to reconstruct her originally British body telekinetically

The thing about Jean's mind transfer is, it prompted him to tell Forge that when he unlocked Jean's telepathy, she quickly because a telepath of intricate complexity, and says he believes that is what made Jean's mind such a perfect host for the Phoenix Force. In this instance, he has just witnessed another great leap in her abilities as a telepath.

[PyroFN]

It was pointed out to me recently that Emma used a “gun” to switch bodies with Storm, not her own powers. However, I don’t know what she did with Betsy. (I have so many stories to catch up on.)

Jean once transferred her psyche into Emma’s dead body to survive a Sentinel attack, though, and used it for a time.

Sorry. I meant Storm in Emma’s body. Though it’s Storm’s will, it’s still Emma’s powers she is using, making it still count. Emma later possesses Iceman, so it can be safe to assume Emma got better with practice.

It is also noteworthy that Storm notes that it takes someone of Jean’s OR Emma’s caliber to perform a body switch. Neither Xavier, nor Jean in fact, correct sStorm in this, so it can be assumed to be correct.

[Mercury]

Sorry. I meant Storm in Emma’s body. Though it’s Storm’s will, it’s still Emma’s powers she is using, making it still count.

Good point.