Tim Drake bisexual

[hero talk]

Williams left after the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, which was when Dixon came back. Not that Dixon's opinion greatly matters if the argument is "what the original creator intended", considering Dixon didn't invent Tim.

well then I guess Williams opinion doesn't greatly matter ether

[Noodle]

well then I guess Williams opinion doesn't greatly matter ether

If you're of the opinion that everything has to be what the original creator intended, then no.

[hero talk]

If you're of the opinion that everything has to be what the original creator intended, then no.

thats not what I said it is what you implied though here's what you said Not that Dixon's opinion greatly matters if the argument is "what the original creator intended", considering Dixon didn't invent Tim
to which I respond with neither did Williams

[Jabare]

No it is due to Golden and Silver age Stories being far tamer than post crisis.
Sorry but during Dick's time as Robin simply nothing happened that was remotely on the Level of "The Cult" and "Ten Nights of the Beast" (Jason) or "Knightfall" and "No Man's Land" (Tim).
And unlike Tim he didn't really had any of his close friends killed untill he was at least 20.

In basically every modern story with Dick as Robin he disobeys Batman and runs of on his own or gets fired/benched (Robin Year one being a prime example). And even back in the Golden Age you will find stories where Dick gets captured by a villain and nearly killed, and there is at least one story that deals with him being to reckless.

He was way more stable in UtRH (and his other appearances written by Winnik) and Countdown, than later in Morrison's run. And the writing was at least as illogical as what Dick did post Blockbuster.

Dick was off with the Titans getting into far crazier adventures without Batman supervising. There's a reason the first generation of sidekicks was so talented they inspired the future generations. Truly Dick Grayson is the first sidekick. He excelled to the point where he encouraged every other reasonable hero to take on young wards of their own.

Dick Grayson has 80+ years of character history. You can nitpick different eras if you want to, but he and Bruce both encompass multiple periods. Regardless, his decision and core characterizations remained largely the same.

They're superheroes. Everyone in the Batfamily gets put into jeopardy, but the overarching trend with Dick is he was not reckless, nor was he characterized as a loose cannon. He's a leader. He builds bridges and forges connections.

Jason, on the other hand, has been painted as such in the comics and in multimedia (animation, video games, and live-action). Just look at his latest lice action and animated stints. That's a direct reflection of the comics.

At this point, Jason has a pre-established pattern of behavior that has come to define his character. It's made him more unique than the other Robins. That doesn't mean he's not flawed or emotional.

Someone earlier tried to infer being tough means you're not emotional and that's conflating definitions. Being emotional doesn't mean you burst into tears. You can be easily angry or triggered and act out. Sure there are the silent stoic guys like Spock, Vampire Hunter D, Balde, etc. But then you've got guys like Wolverine, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Hulk. You can still be a tough guy and be emotional. There are tons of real-life athletes and fighters who are also emotional.


Don't listen to what someone says listen to what they do. When Jason was reborn he was angry, hurt confused. A lot of that emotion got directed at Bruce. He doesn't directly go to Bruce, he adopts the Redhood person and begins his campaign to spite Bruce. He impersonates Nightwing and butts heads with several members of the Batfamily. Then we have Bruce's supposed death and Jason acts out, trying to be a twisted version of Batman.


New 52 kind of gives Jason a reset. He's more anti-hero now. The fact that he doesn't currently kill anymore is a little weird considering he is the only Batfamily member to use guns (outside of that Blackest Night story vs the Zombies). I don't expect that trend to last.

[Noodle]

thats not what I said it is what you implied though here's what you said Not that Dixon's opinion greatly matters if the argument is "what the original creator intended", considering Dixon didn't invent Tim
to which I respond with neither did Williams

I never said you said it. "If you're of the opinion of" applies to anyone that is of that opinion.

[Fergus]

He has every right to Robin.

He was the one that carried a Robin series for almost 200 issues and he was the one who was pushed out of the role for absolutely no reason just because DC was too lazy to come up with another role for Damian.

Literally everything you are saying can be said about Damian just the same: why doesn't Damian create his own ID? Why can't Damian tell stories regardless of his hero ID? Damian is my favorite Robin and honestly I never cared for Tim's Robin comic, so I'm not speaking from any bias when I say:

Robin is rightfully Tim's mantle, unless he's getting promoted to Batman.



Tim is more of the black sheep these days that Jason ever is.

Every person who has been Robin was forced out of the role. That isn't exclusive to Tim.
Dick Grayson was the 1st Robin to have solo adventures stories [Star Spangled Comics] He also created the mantle and defined everything that became Robin.
It's his legacy that rest try to honour and emulate. He was also fired from being batman's sidekick and the mantle he created given to someone else.

Robin belongs to Dick Grayson and he passed it to Damian so Damian is Robin until the next new Robin shows up. That's how it goes. They all get replaced.

Damian's time will come like it did for the others. When that time comes I'm sure he'll get a new identity.

Damian can't move on to a hero name because he is robin. The owners of the IP Robin [both real world and in story] decided that this was the direction they want.

Yeah you mentioned that you were a fan of Damian yesterday [before saying that the Batfamily was better off without him]

You don't need to preface your comments with the fact that you are a fan of a character even if you comment is negative or controversial.

Robin is rightfully Dick Grayson's my friend. The disrespect! leasing a car doesn't make you the owner does it?

Robin or Batman? Those are Tim's choices? No wonder he's struggling. Those are not good. Neither of those can ever be his.

Dc already has a Batman and Robins will always get replaced.

[Aahz]

They're superheroes. Everyone in the Batfamily gets put into jeopardy, but the overarching trend with Dick is he was not reckless, nor was he characterized as a loose cannon. He's a leader. He builds bridges and forges connections.

A lot of retroactive stories with Dick as Robin show him to be reckless and getting benched by Batman for it (Robin Year one being a prime example).

During Joker's Last Laugh Dick beat Joker to Death when he thought that Joker had killed Tim (opposed to lets say James Gordon in Killing Joke or when Joker killed his wife in No Man's Land).

And I don't really think I gave to go into how he acted after the Death of Block Buster or the one of Donna Troy, or his poor relationship with Bruce through out the 80s, 90s and early 2000s (iirc).

A lot of people (fans and writers) tend to ignore those eras, but Dick went also through some darker phases pre flashpoint, and didn't handled it to well when bad stuff happend.

[CPSparkles]

He has every right to Robin.

He was the one that carried a Robin series for almost 200 issues and he was the one who was pushed out of the role for absolutely no reason just because DC was too lazy to come up with another role for Damian.


Robin is rightfully Tim's mantle, unless he's getting promoted to Batman.

Robin isn't rightfully Tim's. It a mantle that was created by Dick Grayson and others carried on the legacy.

Dick was replaced by Jason
Jason was replaced by Tim
Tim was briefly replaced by Steph
Tim replaced Steph
Damian replaced Tim

When Damian was killed off Duke was to replace him except he was resurrected so Duke became The Signal Batman newest sidekick
Damian was briefly replaced by Jarro

and on and on.


Tim doesn't have any more rights than all the other replacements.

The holder changes as the story demands. Damian becoming Robin wasn't due to laziness of writers.
Damian was created specifically to serve temporarily as Robin for Morrison's Batman and Robin title.

A new Robin [Duke] was to inherit the mantle after Damian.

Robins change. It's a legacy mantle.

[Majesty]

Love this video on it as well as Casually Comics's one.

[CPSparkles]

i recall a panel from new 52 TT with imposter Tim Not Drake at Pride with Bunker.

The witness Protection kid knew the score all along.

[witchboy]

i recall a panel from new 52 TT with imposter Tim Not Drake at Pride with Bunker.

The witness Protection kid knew the score all along.

Tim enjoying Pride so much was super cute.

[Jabare]

A lot of retroactive stories with Dick as Robin show him to be reckless and getting benched by Batman for it (Robin Year one being a prime example).

During Joker's Last Laugh Dick beat Joker to Death when he thought that Joker had killed Tim (opposed to lets say James Gordon in Killing Joke or when Joker killed his wife in No Man's Land).

And I don't really think I gave to go into how he acted after the Death of Block Buster or the one of Donna Troy, or his poor relationship with Bruce through out the 80s, 90s and early 2000s (iirc).

A lot of people (fans and writers) tend to ignore those eras, but Dick went also through some darker phases pre flashpoint, and didn't handled it to well when bad stuff happend.

Again all Batfamily members have their ups and downs, but Jason is a clear outlier. No member of the Batfamily has been as reckless as Jason operating without a safety net.

Dick never put on a red helmet and started murdering people. All the Titans grieved for Donna Troy. Every Batfamily member save for Duke has had rough patches with Bruce.

Dick should have beaten the Joker to death, but he actually didn't. Frankly, it's a little suspect that Bruce or Jason hasn't killed the Joker yet if everything is canon now.

[witchboy]

Again all Batfamily members have their ups and downs, but Jason is a clear outlier. No member of the Batfamily has been as reckless as Jason operating without a safety net.

Dick never put on a red helmet and started murdering people. All the Titans grieved for Donna Troy. Every Batfamily member save for Duke has had rough patches with Bruce.

Dick should have beaten the Joker to death, but he actually didn't. Frankly, it's a little suspect that Bruce or Jason hasn't killed the Joker yet if everything is canon now.

If the Batfam won't kill Joker it's unbelievable that some cop hasn't done it. It's just one of those things you have to overlook in the genre.

[Aahz]

Again all Batfamily members have their ups and downs, but Jason is a clear outlier.

Jason had also ups.

No member of the Batfamily has been as reckless as Jason operating without a safety net.

Depends on what you look at. I their early years as Robin Dick and Tim were similarly reckless as Jason. (I mean look at the Flashback in the first issue of Taylors Nightwing and tell me that Dick didn't had rage issues back than...)

As Red Hood he did some things that were more extrem than anything the others did. But if I compare his post Flashpoint series, with Dick's there is not a massive difference.

Dick should have beaten the Joker to death, but he actually didn't.

He did. IIRC Batman just reanimated him because he thought that Dick would not have been able to handle the guilt of having killed somebody.

[Jabare]

Dick and Tim's recklessness never resulted in their deaths. We can talk about the Robins' similarities and nitpick differences. They are all very skilled crime fighters at the end of the day. However, generally speaking, you'll view Jason as the reckless and more impulsive run because of his death to the Joker and tenure as Redhood. DC as a company is seemingly co-signing that with how they've used him in animation and live-action.

Damian died in the heat of battle, but if you want to say he was reckless, fine. He is most similar to Jason anyway.

Stephanie Brown was almost up there with Jason (probably worse actually), but she survived. (but for some reason, people don't consider her a Robin tho)

Are you talking about the Kyle Higgins series? I don't put too much stock in the initial New 52 runs. I knew what they were trying to do, but obviously, that is no more.

Yeah, Taylor's doing a lot with his run. Fans seem to be enjoying everything so far. I'm still a little wary because I see the parallels from past Nightwing stories, many of which are not well remembered. So, we will see what happens. I don't know where Taylor is taking this run or how it will end.