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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    That's the vibe I've gotten as well, but frankly that's been what nearly every writer has said coming onto Diana's book and I've given worse writers a shot for less money. I'm giving this one a try, but we'll see.

    I don't get what's so alienating about Wonder Woman that isn't about Harley Quinn, Superman or the like. They're deep, but not complex, and the only way I can ostensibly see someone saying they don't see humanity in Diana is if they never bother to really read her own book since every writer seems to complain the same thing and make their run about humanizing her.

    How can this keep happening and nobody succeed? spoilers:
    Because they're trying to insert something into a space that's already filled.
    end of spoilers

    But it's possible this will be a cool sci-fi story anyway and that's what I'm hoping for.
    Those writers should stop for a minute and think that maybe, just maybe. Diana doesn't need them to ''humanize'' her. Being ''relatable'' is all subjective after all. And they should think that if they don't get her. Then it's their problem not the character. She has been an icon for 80 years. And she has had enough solo success to prove she can resonate with audiences. As long as ah we guessed it. As long as the writing is good. It is no surprise that the most successful WW projects(Perez, Ruka, Lynda Carter, WW 2017 etc) are all projects where writers cared more to build stories with what Diana's lore already had, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. So if these writers have issues with her. They should take a look at their writinbg instead of blaming the character.

  2. #62
    Spectacular Member AlexLyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Philips has a SubStack now ('cause I guess all the cool kids are doing it now) where she talks a bit more about her creative approach to the book.



    You're not entirely far off. Phillips goes a bit more into it in the aforementioned stuff about seeing Diana more as a symbol than a character, at least when she broached the character.
    I see she also mentions that, in order to explore "who Diana is" they take away her iconic Wonder Woman symbol, and her lasso. And they give her an axe...

    *Nervous laughter*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    That's the vibe I've gotten as well, but frankly that's been what nearly every writer has said coming onto Diana's book and I've given worse writers a shot for less money. I'm giving this one a try, but we'll see.

    I don't get what's so alienating about Wonder Woman that isn't about Harley Quinn, Superman or the like. They're deep, but not complex, and the only way I can ostensibly see someone saying they don't see humanity in Diana is if they never bother to really read her own book since every writer seems to complain the same thing and make their run about humanizing her.

    How can this keep happening and nobody succeed? spoilers:
    Because they're trying to insert something into a space that's already filled.
    end of spoilers

    But it's possible this will be a cool sci-fi story anyway and that's what I'm hoping for.
    That spoiler is exactly the problem, especially when they feel the need to "strip away" things from the character because they don't know how to write Diana at her best, only at the worst they've invented for her. It's just a bit of a simplistic approach to creating drama.

    I would loooove to get a wild sci-fi adventure for Diana and I'm still going to be excited to pick this up. I'll just have that little whimper of "not again" if it's actually a wild sci-fi adventure for someone-who-definitely-isn't-Diana-but-might-recognisably-become-her-by-the-last-issue.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLyo View Post
    I see she also mentions that, in order to explore "who Diana is" they take away her iconic Wonder Woman symbol, and her lasso. And they give her an axe...

    *Nervous laughter*.



    That spoiler is exactly the problem, especially when they feel the need to "strip away" things from the character because they don't know how to write Diana at her best, only at the worst they've invented for her. It's just a bit of a simplistic approach to creating drama.

    I would loooove to get a wild sci-fi adventure for Diana and I'm still going to be excited to pick this up. I'll just have that little whimper of "not again" if it's actually a wild sci-fi adventure for someone-who-definitely-isn't-Diana-but-might-recognisably-become-her-by-the-last-issue.
    I wrote to the writer. Could some of you please tell me if you think i expressed myself properly on the matter?.

    This is what i wrote to her. Quote.

    ''Hello. How are you. I was reading your synopsis on WW evolution and how you felt about the character. I would like to express my opinion on the matter. Because i feel like the character has suffered of being misunderstood too much. With writers trying to reinvent the wheel. Instead of working with what's already established, in the 80 years of material and history of an iconic character. Who is not just a symbol, but a character that means a lot to a lot of us.

    Going back and reading your description of WW evolution. Feels as if you say you get the mythology of WW, but not the ''humanity", making you feel the need to create that aspect when it is something that already exists in the character.

    In her 80th anniversary, we shouldn't be wondering who Diana is. We should be celebrating what she is and has been for so long. Somebody who is sassy yet knows how to keep it cool when she has to. Somebody that loves to eat, but doesn't worry about gaining weight. After all, facing powerful monsters, Gods and training everyday to be up to the task and keep getting stronger will help to avoid those extra poounds Somebody that is compassionate but doesn't let others walk all over her. Somebody that is not afraid to admit when she makes a mistake and tres to correct it. Somebody that can be competitive but won't ever put her pride as a warrior over the duty of saving lives. Somebody that can be naive about believing in the good that may exist in everybody, but will always try to see the best in everybody rather than lose herself in pesimism. Somebody that even though she didn't need to care for humans, and could just live a happy life in her island. She decided to leave to an unknown world and learn from it, because she thought and she wanted to do better for both, her people and the world outside. We don't need to see her suffering and having doubts about herself all the time like many writers have done these past years to find her ''humanity'' and ''identity''. Because her humanity and identity have always been there. And here i used some of the words from Alex because i loved how you put it. She's not that complicated, there are heaps of great stories defining who she is. Who she is without her lasso, her tiara etc? It should be pretty clear. She is an amazon Goddess. A powerhouse who will fight with words first, and with her powers and weapons if she has to. To protect those who can't fight for themselves. Because she believes in truth, justice and equality. She is a sister to anybody that wants to listen and take a moment to analize that maybe, there are better ways to approach life and the world we live in. Ways that may be different than some old status quo but are worth giving them a try. She is the spirit of truth. Because she belives that there is no better future possible, if we are not honest with ourselves and the reality around us. As being able to face truth is the only way to be truly free and work for a better future. Turn a hawk into a dove, make a liar tell the truth. Don’t kill if you can wound, don’t wound if you can subdue, don’t subdue if you can pacify, and don’t raise your hand at all until you’ve first extended it. Stronger than Hercules, faster than Hermes. Wise as Athena, beautiful as Aphrodite. A brave heart that with all the power she has. She will always try to find a way to help without brute force. But is not afraid to be tough if she has to. Somebody that will prefer to sacrifice herself for the well being of others. Because she made up her mind long ago, that her plce in life is to be there for those who need her. And even thoughv she knows sorrow, she knows pain and even hatred. She doesn't allow herself to be dominated by them. And unlike other heroes that are consumed by their neagative feelings and become avengers. She is not afraid to still try to live a full life and be happy on top of figting for a better world everyday. She is all that. A warrior, a Goddess, a powerhouse, an ambassador, a leader, a sister, a friend. That's her humanity. Her identity. And we should be celebrating all that in her anniversary. Celebrating who she is and has been for a long time. And celebrating her legacy and what she means to all of us.

    Sorry for this long post. If i bothered you, it wasn't my intention. I just felt it was important to share my thoughts with you. I hope your book turns out being a great celebration of this character that we all love. Greetings''


    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by WonderLight789; 08-19-2021 at 11:38 PM.

  4. #64
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    That's a very nice description Mystical. And I think it might be a good idea. I'm really glad I started the day with a lovely thing like that.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    She seems to be a fan of New 52 WW. So i won't get my hopes too high.

    https://twitter.com/Steph_Smash/stat...48430436876292

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    That's a very nice description Mystical. And I think it might be a good idea. I'm really glad I started the day with a lovely thing like that.
    Thank you.

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Those writers should stop for a minute and think that maybe, just maybe. Diana doesn't need them to ''humanize'' her. Being ''relatable'' is all subjective after all.
    I sometimes wonder if all this just doesn't boil down to "I want character X to be like me".

  8. #68
    The Last Dragon Perseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I sometimes wonder if all this just doesn't boil down to "I want character X to be like me".
    Azzerello was like this I believe, he never liked Diana to begin with and pitched an idea where he changed her partially to fit his view/needs of the character, to "get" her so to speak.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLyo View Post
    I see she also mentions that, in order to explore "who Diana is" they take away her iconic Wonder Woman symbol, and her lasso. And they give her an axe...

    *Nervous laughter*.



    That spoiler is exactly the problem, especially when they feel the need to "strip away" things from the character because they don't know how to write Diana at her best, only at the worst they've invented for her. It's just a bit of a simplistic approach to creating drama.

    I would loooove to get a wild sci-fi adventure for Diana and I'm still going to be excited to pick this up. I'll just have that little whimper of "not again" if it's actually a wild sci-fi adventure for someone-who-definitely-isn't-Diana-but-might-recognisably-become-her-by-the-last-issue.
    Trust me, I am interested in this story but I'm right there with you in those trenches that I hate the "Diana is just too hard to write for" talking point. Always comes off to me as trying justify DC's poor handling of the character.
    Last edited by Gaius; 08-21-2021 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    Azzerello was like this I believe, he never liked Diana to begin with and pitched an idea where he changed her partially to fit his view/needs of the character, to "get" her so to speak.
    I disagree.

    He changed her world but his Diana is recognizably Diana. But to each their own.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Trust me, I am interested in this story but I'm right there with you in those trenches that I hate the "Diana is just too hard to write for" talking point. Always comes off to me as trying justify DC's poor handling of the character.
    Whenever I hear that WW is a tough character to crack, I roll my eyes and groan. These are writers, for ****'s sake. Do your research, read her books, and it really shouldn't be a problem.

    Laziness. It's laziness and lack of imagination on the part of the writers. It's not on Diana, it's on the subpar or lazy writers.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    Whenever I hear that WW is a tough character to crack, I roll my eyes and groan. These are writers, for ****'s sake. Do your research, read her books, and it really shouldn't be a problem.

    Laziness. It's laziness and lack of imagination on the part of the writers. It's not on Diana, it's on the subpar or lazy writers.
    She is tough if the ones that get to write her, have minimal to 0 interest in her lore and history. Or are only fond of versions like JL cartoon WW and the bat/WW ship. So of couyrse these writers will likely blame the character for being ''difficult'' to write, rather than put the blame where it truly belongs. Their writing.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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  14. #74
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Trust me, I am interested in this story but I'm right there with you in those trenches that I hate the "Diana is just too hard to write for" talking point. Always comes off to me as trying justify DC's poor handling of the character.
    Weirdly, I think Simone has said in the past that Diana is tough to write for. But unlike most who say that, despite some other misfires in her run, Diana's characterization was for the most part on point.

    I think it helps that even if Simone says Diana is challenging, she doesn't say it a way to blame the character because she clearly loves her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    I disagree.

    He changed her world but his Diana is recognizably Diana. But to each their own.
    Yeah, a story where Diana gets all these shocking revelations about her life and family but refuses to let it change her and instead she brings about positive change for others is actually a really dead on take on her.

    The fact that he somehow managed it while missing the point of the Amazons as a whole and causing damage to them as characters and a society is really mystifying

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Weirdly, I think Simone has said in the past that Diana is tough to write for. But unlike most who say that, despite some other misfires in her run, Diana's characterization was for the most part on point.

    I think it helps that even if Simone says Diana is challenging, she doesn't say it a way to blame the character because she clearly loves her.
    To be fair, Simone isn't the only one. Rucka and Jimenez I think have also brought it up when they talk about Wonder Woman (though they word it differently I believe, but the idea is the same). But like you said with Simone, their love of the character is evident on the page and they made WW good stuff.

    Just tends to stick in my mind since I tend to associate with iterations like the DCAU where Timm and co bring it up when referring to their characterization of WW or when people, who maybe aren't necessarily WW fans, want to defend poor creative decisions on DC's part.

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