What does Earth-1985 look like today?

[ducklord]

I understand, and agree that guys like Ted Kord and Dr. Light have no place here. One hails from a separate world that was anexed into "ours" and the other's origin is tied into the COIE event. However, Some "evolutions" I do think are natural progressions of events that could (and maybe even would) have taken place in these Earths had the Crisis not occured. For exemple, the natural progression of Barry retiring in the future would be Wally taking over the mantle, his power problems easily fixed in many tried ways. Or how about Barbara Gordon, who was planning on retiring as Batgirl previous to the Crisis, eventually comming back as Batwoman (instead of Oracle), with a different modus operandi? And many other status quos that were in a state of flux when the CoIE came about, finding some resolution. I don't think it's a far stretch, you just have to be very careful at how you go at it.

Peace

Barbara Gordon is an interesting one, no doubt. It seems obvious that the whole "getting crippled by the Joker" thing doesn't really fit into the spirit of the pre-Crisis metaverse, but, as noted, Barbara was semi-retired heading into Crisis (although I personally though that a LOT of her whining during the ACTUAL Crisis came out of left field). I kind of like the idea of her hanging up the cowl and continuing her political career (she was a congresswoman pre-Crisis, after all), a crusader for high tech within the halls of Congress ("The Oracle of the Potomac," if you will).

Booster Gold, as others have commented, despite being an explicit post-Crisis creation, has some remarkably pre-Crisis notes in his origin. I mean, he was a janitor in the flipping Space Museum, for goodness sakes - it doesn't get more Silver Age-y than that. So I could see an argument for a version of him cropping up, although it wouldn't be my preference.

[ducklord]

One thing that comes to mind when mulling over this idea is an even HARDER gedanken experiment - What Does the Pre-Silver Age Metaverse look like today? That is, what does the original DC Metaverse, the one that was never tainted by a multiverse, look like?

- It never had an All-Star Squadron.
- The Seven Soldiers of Victory never got tossed through time.
- The status of its Superman and Batman are unknown.
- Commander Steel and Amazing Man never existed.
- The JSA never canonically disbanded... their adventures just stopped being told.
- None of its major characters were ever killed.

I mean, in a lot of ways it's probably a pretty boring metaverse (things were pretty darned static before the Silver Age), but it's kind of interesting to think about.

[bat39]

Earth 1985 is Earth 1. Not a copy or altered version. I don't see it splintering off, but that the Post Crisis Earth splintered off as a new Earth...ni see things i guess more linearly.

Earth 2 ( something happens) and Earth 1 created ( leaving Earth 2 intact)..... then ( crisis happens) and Post Crisis Earth created ( leaving Earth 1 intact), then Flashpoint creates Flashpoint Earth, leaving post crisis Earth intact, nu52 Earth created, Rebirth Earth created.....etc

So Earth 1 is renamed Earth 1985 ( basically cuz DC in it's infinite wisdom decided to reuse thevEarth 1 and 2 banners...no confusion there!) It would be the Silver/Bronze Age Earth. It's history would be intact as we knew it. Crisis never happened. Barry and Kara never died. Kal was Superboy, Diana has a sister named Nubia, etc

If this were to be a title, or banner of titles, i see Earth 1(985) as being almost timeless... not moved forward to now, but not drowning in 1980sness. They're the ultimate classic, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez DC style guide Super Powers versions.....

That would go against what Doomsday Clock established, wherein the Metaverse is basically whatever is the current 'mainstream' DC earth that keeps getting rebooted, and a new earth is created to 'preserve' the era that just got replaced.

Its an explanation that is more in line with DC's actual publication history, where the main DC earth changes, but occasionally you get a chance to revisit a previous version of the DCU on another earth. So the Golden Age earth becomes the Silver Age earth, but now the Silver Age heroes can meet the Golden Age heroes who are now on another earth that isn't the 'main' earth. And so on.

In a linear sense, COIE happened and the remaining 5 earths got merged to form Earth 0. It makes more sense that Earth 1985 is a new earth created to preserve Pre-COIE Earth 1, than that we suddenly shifted perspective from Earth 1 to some other random version of Earth 1 that was destined to become part of Earth 0 when we started reading COIE.

One thing that comes to mind when mulling over this idea is an even HARDER gedanken experiment - What Does the Pre-Silver Age Metaverse look like today? That is, what does the original DC Metaverse, the one that was never tainted by a multiverse, look like?

- It never had an All-Star Squadron.
- The Seven Soldiers of Victory never got tossed through time.
- The status of its Superman and Batman are unknown.
- Commander Steel and Amazing Man never existed.
- The JSA never canonically disbanded... their adventures just stopped being told.
- None of its major characters were ever killed.

I mean, in a lot of ways it's probably a pretty boring metaverse (things were pretty darned static before the Silver Age), but it's kind of interesting to think about.

Hmm...that's really interesting!

Will we be stuck with the static Golden Age status quo, or have the characters evolve (and the timeline progress) the way they did on Earth 2? Would Lois and Clark be married, or would the love triangle for two continue unabated?

Come to think of it, we don't know what caused that initial shift from the Golden Age to the Silver Age. Every other DC continuity shift was marked by an event - COIE, IC, Flashpoint, Rebirth, Death Metal etc. What caused the original 'reboot' circa 1956? Was it the birth of the Speed Force? Krona's experiment creating the original Multiverse? Some unknown JSA adventure?

Might be interesting to learn about the ''First Crisis'' someday...

[Buried Alien]

Come to think of it, we don't know what caused that initial shift from the Golden Age to the Silver Age. Every other DC continuity shift was marked by an event - COIE, IC, Flashpoint, Rebirth, Death Metal etc. What caused the original 'reboot' circa 1956? Was it the birth of the Speed Force? Krona's experiment creating the original Multiverse? Some unknown JSA adventure?

Might be interesting to learn about the ''First Crisis'' someday...

Bored at 3:00am has some interesting theories about that.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BatmanJones]

I like this game but isn’t the actual answer that they’d be right where they left off in 1985?

[wonder39]

That would go against what Doomsday Clock established, wherein the Metaverse is basically whatever is the current 'mainstream' DC earth that keeps getting rebooted, and a new earth is created to 'preserve' the era that just got replaced.

Its an explanation that is more in line with DC's actual publication history, where the main DC earth changes, but occasionally you get a chance to revisit a previous version of the DCU on another earth. So the Golden Age earth becomes the Silver Age earth, but now the Silver Age heroes can meet the Golden Age heroes who are now on another earth that isn't the 'main' earth. And so on.

In a linear sense, COIE happened and the remaining 5 earths got merged to form Earth 0. It makes more sense that Earth 1985 is a new earth created to preserve Pre-COIE Earth 1, than that we suddenly shifted perspective from Earth 1 to some other random version of Earth 1 that was destined to become part of Earth 0 when we started .

I'm not reading that as such. The book talks about reality shifting forward. And i guess its two sides of the same coin? Lol. It makes more sense for the " event" to create a new Earth with its new, altered reality, vs creating a new Earth to copy a continuity. Inguess that's the linear part to me....constantly moving forward with new Earths and new realities.....the new Earth holds the new continuity, and is the Earth we focus on.

We leave behind the existing, previous continuity, unharmed by the new reality.

[bat39]

I'm not reading that as such. The book talks about reality shifting forward. And i guess its two sides of the same coin? Lol. It makes more sense for the " event" to create a new Earth with its new, altered reality, vs creating a new Earth to copy a continuity. Inguess that's the linear part to me....constantly moving forward with new Earths and new realities.....the new Earth holds the new continuity, and is the Earth we focus on.

We leave behind the existing, previous continuity, unharmed by the new reality.

Yeah, I know its just semantics...but there's a specific set of semantics that Doomsday Clock chose to adopt.

The story's contention is that there's the 'main' DC earth or Metaverse and that keeps changing with every era, with new earths created to preserve the previous era.

COIE is something that happens to Earth 1 (as well as to other earths in that version of the Multiverse) and transforms it into the Post-COIE earth. And we now know there's another earth out there which is basically Earth 1 had COIE not happened. But the Earth 1 that we followed from 195X to 1986, the earth that's the 'main' DC earth when COIE begins...that's the Earth 1 that becomes Post-COIE earth when the dust has settled.

The whole idea of the Metaverse is that the Superman we have today is the same Superman who debuted in Action Comics # 1. Every shift in reality 'evolves' him into a new incarnation (corresponding with the real-world retcons/reboots). But occasionally we get to visit a version of 'previous' Supermen on another earths. A case in point being the Earth 2 Superman, who is a version of the Golden Age Superman. In a very meta way, it reflects the actual publishing history surrounding Earth 2...which was a Silver Age retcon. Doomsday Clock makes it status as a Silver Age creation canon - it was created when the main DC earth shifted from the Golden Age to the Silver Age.

[Thor-Ul]

I like this game but isn’t the actual answer that they’d be right where they left off in 1985?

Essentially, that should be.

[ducklord]

I like this game but isn’t the actual answer that they’d be right where they left off in 1985?

Well, yes and no.

The metaverse of 1985, unlike it's golden age predecessor, was one that embraced change. Slow, torturous change, but change nonetheless.
- The Doom Patrol died, and was mostly replaced by their bronze age counterparts.
- Robin became Nightwing.
- The Teen Titans in general became 20somethings.
- Donna Troy got married.
- Batman got a new Robin.
- Speedy became a junkie and got over it.
- The Legion killed off a number of members, and a few of them got married.
- The golden age characters were finally allowed to age, get married, have kids, and die.
- Barry Allen, Ray Palmer and Ralph Dibny got married.
- The JLA got blown up and replaced with JLA Detroit.

And so on.

So it makes sense that Earth-1985, projected forward another 35 years, might have similar (albeit slow-paced) transformations. It would still be a metaverse of bright shiny heroism (at least, compared to the relatively darker Post-Crisis DCU), but things would evolve, I think.

[BatmanJones]

Well, yes and no.

The metaverse of 1985, unlike it's golden age predecessor, was one that embraced change. Slow, torturous change, but change nonetheless.
- The Doom Patrol died, and was mostly replaced by their bronze age counterparts.
- Robin became Nightwing.
- The Teen Titans in general became 20somethings.
- Donna Troy got married.
- Batman got a new Robin.
- Speedy became a junkie and got over it.
- The Legion killed off a number of members, and a few of them got married.
- The golden age characters were finally allowed to age, get married, have kids, and die.
- Barry Allen, Ray Palmer and Ralph Dibny got married.
- The JLA got blown up and replaced with JLA Detroit.

And so on.

So it makes sense that Earth-1985, projected forward another 35 years, might have similar (albeit slow-paced) transformations. It would still be a metaverse of bright shiny heroism (at least, compared to the relatively darker Post-Crisis DCU), but things would evolve, I think.

Ah! I missed the projected 35 years thing. As Emily Litella said, “Never mind.”

[Sutekh]

The metaverse of 1985, unlike it's golden age predecessor, was one that embraced change. Slow, torturous change, but change nonetheless.
- Donna Troy got married.
- The Legion killed off a number of members, and a few of them got married.
- The golden age characters were finally allowed to age, get married, have kids, and die.
- Barry Allen, Ray Palmer and Ralph Dibny got married.

It's interesting that this generation has some trend in that 'heroes getting married' direction, with stories about Clark & Lois getting hitched, and Bruce & Selina.

I wonder who else would have been considered if 'heroes growing older together' had continued with the trend back in the 80s? Ollie & Dinah, or would they have eschewed labels and stayed life partners without rings? Hal Jordan seems like the sort who would maybe have married Carol, and then perhaps been the first hero to get a divorce...

[80sForever]

Come to think of it, we don't know what caused that initial shift from the Golden Age to the Silver Age. Every other DC continuity shift was marked by an event - COIE, IC, Flashpoint, Rebirth, Death Metal etc. What caused the original 'reboot' circa 1956? Was it the birth of the Speed Force? Krona's experiment creating the original Multiverse? Some unknown JSA adventure?

Might be interesting to learn about the ''First Crisis'' someday...

The best info on how each character shifted at different times.

[D.Z]

Earth 1 may have been the base but Earth 0 is defined as multiple Earths into 1.
20210821_164555.jpg

Another separate Earth is Earth 85, pre hawkworld changes. Which was never destroyed.

Metaverse moves the Superman forward to new worlds, the pages also say the world divides and backups previous eras. Like cells dividing.