Batgirls

[Fergus]

Basically I imagine this is what they saw when they initially envisioned they basically could do with Tim Drake in the New 52



And this is what they thought they could do when they envisioned Damian in the new 52



But yeah... the execution and result was bad and Tim has yet to recover from it.

Whelp!

Thenu52 hit everyone not called Batman hard.
They did **** all over Dick Grayson's legacy and contribution to comics by hacking off his TT founding member origin and giving it to Tim.

They also limboed Terry to benefit Tim. Tim became Batman Beyond and the only Batfamily member to have a lead in two on-goings.

On Damian you are incorrect. DC envisioned him dead and gone. Same with Nightwing.
Damian was supposed to die and stay dead. DC, Morrison and Snyder had a long standing agreement that Morrison would put back his toys.

Snyder already set up his sidekicks for his run on Batman Duke and Harper which had to bes crapped last minute when WB stepped in and vetoed Damian staying dead.

That was the reason why Duke didn't become Robin as planned. DC wanted Duke as Robin and Damian gone [I suspect they still do with how they isolate him and have prematurely ended every successful titles he's fronted dispitenone failing]

Nightwing is another Bat character that DC had planned to kill off during the new 52.

Dc's plans the 2 in the nu52 is common knowledge and have been confirmed multiple times

[CPSparkles]

At the start of New52, we have Damian in Batman and Robin (with Bruce), while Tim was in Teen Titans. Tim wasn't part of Batman editorial at that time.

Not saying Damian wasn't relegated, it started when Damian come back from death. It's pretty clear DC didn't know what to do with Damian, but he was too popular to mantain him death.

Yep exactly this. Tim wasn't a part of the Bat Family things happening despite Nightwing, Jason and Damian getting shine. Whilst Tim was on the Teen Titans instead. Which was a point of frustration for Tim Drake fans back then. One of the many reasons why they blame the New52 for Tim's rut he's yet to recover from.

The New 52 was the time period where all the other Robin's got their own prominent titles whilst Tim was stuck with the Titans and away from Bat Family situations. Nightwing and Red Hood got their solo series, Damian was with Batman. Tim Drake no longer had a solo series and was with the Titans. During the CoO event, you had every Robin in their respective comics getting a special issue dedicated to the event especially Dick. The only Robin who didn't get any special attention or a book dedicated to him and his part in it or how it effected him? You guessed it. Tim Drake



And as I mentioned, Tim had his entire character changed which I think has been retconned but I need that confirmed. But the Tim Drake that figured out who Batman and Robin were because of 'how they moved' which was a story point sloppily attempted to be given to officer Robin Blake(see what they did there) in the Nolan movies... nope, that's gone. Tim showing up to Bruce's doorstep to reveal his identity and how he'd figured everything out and therefore had decided to become Bruce's Robin after Bruce's downward spiral after the death of Jason Todd? The kid that said "If Dick won't be Robin. Someone else has to." Yep that's gone. And his status as Red Robin became instead of something he gave himself once the title of Robin was given to Damian, a title he had to give himself because Bruce was asked to take care of him by his parents, because oh yeah.. Bruce already knew everything about Tim Drake and had been watching him. Because he's Batman....

Again, there's a reason a lot of people hate The New 52 and all it did to Tim Drake. A lot of it in hindsight, because at the time they were willing to give it a chance and see where it went. And Tim has been struggling along ever since.

True Damian was around during the start of New52. He was in B&R vol2. He was dead by #18.

Tim had 2 prominent titles in the nu52, was also a recurring character in B&R [about 5 issues prior to Damian's death]
Was in batman Inc, Was in DOTF, Was in Robin War and was in BRE. The only Bat event he missed was Court of Owls. For every one else it was business as usual and newly guys finally were given a series. Tim was the outlier since he was given 2 books.


Tim's origins was butchered in the new 52. That was the case for every character in the DCU lucky enough not to be erased.

His new origin was bad but imo less problematic than A Lonely Place of Dying.

I get why DC decided translate what Miller did with Carrie in the TDKR into the main line comics. The concept of a fangirl Robin who seeks out a jaded dark Batman following Jason's death and convincing him that he needs Robin was a cool 'this could totally happen to you dear reader' way to re-introduce Robin.

It worked in that Elsewhere due to;
-Bruce's old age and decades long isolation from society,
-Bruce retired for decades after a child he brought into his mission lost his life. He didn't just immediately replace the dead sidekick with another kid without parental consent
- in TDKR, Robin role was as aiding Batman not that of custodian keeping Batman from acting out which it later became 2 years later with Tim.

For main universe Batman it becomes problematic and raises many ethical and moral questions about Bruce.

I didn't like Tim stealing or the fact that he got his folks into danger.
I also liked that in his new origin he was actually a detective who tried to figure out the identities of Batman and Robin using his brains not just a kid who has eyes recognises a move he's seen before.

Tim's origin was restored in rebirth just like everyone else. Then Bendis and DC decided to do what fans have been asking for since theDickBats era. Tim went back to Robin and reunited with his YJ TM and resetting them to how they were at the peak of their popularity. That flopped. so they put him next to Batman, used him in Nightwing and gave him a solo series which failed in record time. My take away is that Tim's struggle is tied to his inability to graduate Robin. He needs to be moved as far away from anything Robinish.

[CPSparkles]

No offense. But why are we still talking about Tim Drake in the Batgirls thread?

Sorry completely forgot this was a Batgirls thread.

[Aahz]

I mean on A03 the most popular ship for Tim is Jason and one of the most popular for Dick is Bruce and Slade......they are not reflective of comic fans.

If you go by what is popular on AO3, all of DC characters would be LGBT, and I'm pretty sure doing that would not work out for DC when it comes to sales.

[Triniking1234]

I feel like anyone pairing Dick with Bruce and Slade needs to get German Suplexed on a daily basis.

[Will Evans]

I feel like anyone pairing Dick with Bruce and Slade needs to get German Suplexed on a daily basis.

Heh heh heh

[marhawkman]

I feel like anyone pairing Dick with Bruce and Slade needs to get German Suplexed on a daily basis.

Maybe that's the cause? too much brain damage from head trauma?

[Hypo]

Batgirls #18 Preview
Writers: Michael Conrad and Becky Cloonan
Artist: Robbi Rodriguez

[Drako]

Am i tripping? I really thought Heartless killed Gunhawk in Nightwing. I guess we didn't see his body in the aftermath, so they might have an excuse.

[Frontier]

Is it just me or has Montoya become really unlikeable as commissioner?

[sorboares]

Glad to see Babs as Batgirl again with the 2 other Batgirls.

[Majesty]

Is it just me or has Montoya become really unlikeable as commissioner?

Sadly it reeks of "if we make her too good.. no one will want Gordon back once we somehow find a way to bring him back and put him back in this position of power."

[Frontier]

Sadly it reeks of "if we make her too good.. no one will want Gordon back once we somehow find a way to bring him back and put him back in this position of power."

Or a classic case of an established character becoming more unlikeable whenever you put them in a position of authority or power.

Or I guess it's building off of how John Ridley had her being fairly complicit in the Anti-Mask stuff.

[Majesty]

Or a classic case of an established character becoming more unlikeable whenever you put them in a position of authority or power.

Or I guess it's building off of how John Ridley had her being fairly complicit in the Anti-Mask stuff.

Pretty much. But DC always screws up Renee's character in some way, shape or form no matter how much progress she makes as a character prior. Kind of like what they always do with her and Kate. They get to a really great place and then suddenly aren't together anymore X_X

[WebLurker]

Pretty much. But DC always screws up Renee's character in some way, shape or form no matter how much progress she makes as a character prior. Kind of like what they always do with her and Kate. They get to a really great place and then suddenly aren't together anymore X_X

Most comic book writers do seem to hate committed relationships.