Batgirls

[millernumber1]

Perhaps to put it more simply, versions of Batman Eternal and to a much lesser extent B&R Eternal happened, but the first origins for Steph and Cass are what DC are going with from now on. Same as with Azrael.

It's basically been softly rebooted. Like what they did with Mr Freeze.

I seriously doubt that One Bad Day Mr Freeze is going to have any effect on continuity. At least I hope not.

But yeah, basically. Azrael's a tricky one, because his new origin was SO different, and Tynion worked so hard to try to get him back up to speed, but now Ram V and Dan Watters basically just treat him like the O'neil version. Which is good, it's just wacky.

[ChangingStation]

I seriously doubt that One Bad Day Mr Freeze is going to have any effect on continuity. At least I hope not.

But yeah, basically. Azrael's a tricky one, because his new origin was SO different, and Tynion worked so hard to try to get him back up to speed, but now Ram V and Dan Watters basically just treat him like the O'neil version. Which is good, it's just wacky.

I was talking more about how Rebirth, soft rebooted Mr Freeze back to actually having been married to Nora, instead of her just being some woman he got obsessed with that he never even knew.

And let's be clear the latter is not exactly a bad idea, but it does a lot to take away a lot of the tragedy for the character that made fans sympathise with him and was responsible for him really catching on.

[millernumber1]

I was talking more about how Rebirth, soft rebooted Mr Freeze back to actually having been married to Nora, instead of her just being some woman he got obsessed with that he never even knew.

And let's be clear the latter is not exactly a bad idea, but it does a lot to take away a lot of the tragedy for the character that made fans sympathise with him and was responsible for him really catching on.

Oh, you mean the n52 Batman Annual retcon, that they then retconned again. Yeah, I think that's probably true. I have no real opinions on the n52 vs Rebirth vs Animated Series Freeze, honestly. I just know that I really dislike the One Bad Day version.

But since this is a Batgirls thread, unless they go up against the Freeze Man, his origins probably aren't SUPER relevant to them.

[K. Jones]

Latest issue is my favorite so far purely on the strength of the art. But that being said, I like all the beats, too. I thought from the annual the freaky friday thing was a great choice and bringing in a vintage Batgirl villain sings as the reason. Whenever the Burnside Batgirl run refreshed a one-off Batgirl villain I was always stoked, and this is sort of one of Batgirl's A-Listers and is an excellent choice here.

Shiva was on point and Cluemaster picking up with Eternal continuity is an interesting choice that I appreciate, continuity headaches or not. Special guest cameo was also definitely a properly appropriate choice. Issue felt good, like playing in the sandbox and telling a cohesive story with a theme at the same time. So you factor in how good that art is and it's just a winner all around.

[Frontier]

I loved the guest star.

spoilers:

Although the Zatanna costume was really retro even by her standards and her hair hasn't been that short in decades.

end of spoilers

[millernumber1]

Agreed! I thought it was pretty cool all of the pieces that fit together. And the art was really cool. I am once again sad that it's just two issues, even though I'm happy to get Googe back again.

[Frontier]

spoilers:

When was the last time Madame Zodiac was in a comic?

end of spoilers

[ohfellow]

Agreed! I thought it was pretty cool all of the pieces that fit together. And the art was really cool. I am once again sad that it's just two issues, even though I'm happy to get Googe back again.

I loved the art, and the story was good too.

Case drew the Batgirls as young women, not 14 year olds. Yay!

The coloring, though obviously stylized, was fine - nothing got smudged into oblivion, as I have often thought was true in this series. (I wouldn't call this issue's cover Sarah Stern's finest coloring effort to date!) Case's coloring enhanced rather than detracted.

How do we ask DC for more of Jonathan Case? We need more than two.

[millernumber1]

I loved the art, and the story was good too.

Case drew the Batgirls as young women, not 14 year olds. Yay!

The coloring, though obviously stylized, was fine - nothing got smudged into oblivion, as I have often thought was true in this series. (I wouldn't call this issue's cover Sarah Stern's finest coloring effort to date!) Case's coloring enhanced rather than detracted.

How do we ask DC for more of Jonathan Case? We need more than two.

I mean, I've never really gotten a response from Jessica Chen, who I think is the one who most makes those decisions. You could also tweet Ben Abernathy. Michael Conrad is reasonably responsive on twitter, but he also always says he has no control over those decisions.

[ohfellow]

Ship watch/tease - subtext of the month:

1. Steph to "Shiva": "If you could just step back, you'd realize that she's perfect." (Bolded, as in the comic.)

But, people do not speak to other people's mothers that way. They'd say "you'd realize that she's exceptional" or "extraordinary" or "special."

It's inartful subtext, because it barely has a double meaning - it's not a context where you'd use the word "perfect."

This is Steph giving herself advice: "Steph, if you could just step back, you'd realize she is perfect for you."


2. Steph to "Shiva": Maybe you can't say it right now... but who knows what the future will hold?"

Steph commenting to herself again. It's weird to say that to Shiva at all, let alone to phrase it that way. If you were going to say it, you might say "... but maybe someday." But it's barely even what Steph would think to herself - it's writerly and sounds editorial.

So I feel that this excursion into a dissection of Shiva's relationship with Cass was just there to mirror what Cloonan and Conrad wanted to say about Steph/Cass.

Maybe the subtext is obvious to everyone. I did see it as I read through the first time - it wasn't unexpected - but I just let it go while enjoying the improved art and decent storytelling. That said, I now return to make mention of it.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

About that, apparently this is the status of the Batgirls relationship:

https://twitter.com/ServantofDagon/s...52268746174466

[Frontier]

"Queer Platonic Relationship" ?

[ohfellow]

About that, apparently this is the status of the Batgirls relationship:

https://twitter.com/ServantofDagon/s...52268746174466

I remember that millnumber1 posted that.

People sometimes do misremember conversations, or inadvertently mischaracterize them. Or, just plain start rumors. Creators may fib, or may not know. And, editorial directions can change.

The conversation referenced says Cloonan said she "thinks" they are in a "queer-platonic" relationship - they are now, not that they would always be. (In this issue, Steph is telling herself she does NOT recognize yet that she and Cass would be perfect together. Consciously, Steph thinks it's platonic, but a part of her is telling herself to step back and look again.) And, that this is what Cloonan "thinks," which is kind of hedging, but this is how a creator can tell a half-truth. We don't know the whole story - it might be "I think this, but Michael and Jess think something else, and group editor Ben Abernathy wants something else to happen"...

Hah, I can sew 50 kinds of doubt into what Cloonan supposedly said. There's room for reinterpretation.

In any event, I'm just noting what I find on the page. It seems to me they are either foreshadowing it, or teasing it, in every issue. But maybe I'm the only one who read it that way.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

"Queer Platonic Relationship" ?

Yeah.......I have no idea what that even is.

[ohfellow]

"Queer Platonic Relationship" ?

"The concept originates in aromantic and asexual spaces in the LGBT community."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerp...c_relationship

It's one of a dozen or more (more being defined all the time) categories of non-sexual intimacy, I think.

So Cloonan is saying something like she thinks it's love, but without sex.