Batgirls

[sunofdarkchild]

They actually have a good idea for the body-swap plot device instead of only using it for shenanigans. Steph and Cass can now have a glimpse into the other's life they wouldn't have if they continued to just stay at the loft and fight crime as normal.

[K. Jones]

The Freaky Friday angle is funny. Because it's like, the silliest and most derivative concept this run of Batgirls has thrown at us yet, but because of Steph & Cass's personalities and backstories and parental whatevers, it's probably the best storytelling device the run has had yet. It's also very Silver Age, absurdist, and fun, and I feel like while you could do it elsewhere in the DCU right now, this is the title to do it in and it only works as well as you want it to because of The Batgirls and the high concept fun of "Steph has to bluff the Deadly Lady Shiva" and "Cass has to bluff the Cunning Cluemaster".

[Digifiend]

Actually, Annuals don't usually have variants. They are odd beasts, not usually put in people's comic book subscription boxes without being explicitly asked for at the shop, which I think is a huge mistake.

It does look like Case is just on for two issues. I'm very curious how his stuff looks!

I thought the art looked mostly fine - though Cass out of costume is definitely off model, her hair's too long.

[ComicNoobie]

I thought the art looked mostly fine - though Cass out of costume is definitely off model, her hair's too long.

I was wondering about Cass's hair at one point. It's pretty rare to see Cass with long hair. She's had it long before when she was Black Bat I think?

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Do people think StephCass will become canon?

[ChangingStation]

Not from the way the series is establishing that Steph wants to try out a relationship with Kyle (and actually makes a point of trying to build tension between the two).

I doubt it will last that long, but they are certainly trying to establish a desire if nothing else.

[ohfellow]

Why does Cass sit with Steph's mask off in the bar? Just so she can drink ginger ale in public is not a good reason.

Some other trivial observations:

On the interior pages, Rodriguez has not just left off the padded section on the upper part of Steph's suit, but he didn't even draw an outline of the separate section for Renzi to color purple. That's a first - Googe and Corona at least drew the separate section, though without padding.

I also don't love the very exaggerated way Rodriguez draws Steph's cloak wrapping around her neck. The cloak has always been bulky around her neck, and I don't even know how it is supposed to fit, but the way Rodriguez draws it is distracting.

[Frontier]

Why does Cass sit with Steph's mask off in the bar? Just so she can drink ginger ale in public is not a good reason.

Some other trivial observations:

On the interior pages, Rodriguez has not just left off the padded section on the upper part of Steph's suit, but he didn't even draw an outline of the separate section for Renzi to color purple. That's a first - Googe and Corona at least drew the separate section, though without padding.

I also don't love the very exaggerated way Rodriguez draws Steph's cloak wrapping around her neck. The cloak has always been bulky around her neck, and I don't even know how it is supposed to fit, but the way Rodriguez draws it is distracting.

Y'know if they had the old Spoiler mask she could just lift it up to the mouth and not have to worry about exposing her identity .

[ohfellow]

Y'know if they had the old Spoiler mask she could just lift it up to the mouth and not have to worry about exposing her identity .

Haha, yes that's true.

[WebLurker]

Do people think StephCass will become canon?

It's possible, but I doubt it. Excusing the fact that the characters being close is often seen being decent platform for a friends-to-lovers story, arguably the only explicit reason that the theory has gotten traction was that their backup story in the "Future State" comics (a series designed to seed stuff for the current runs) apparently depicted them a broken up couple rekindling their relationship and that Steph was dumped by her boyfriend in a pretty final way (as final as anything gets in comics, of course).

The obvious counterpoints are that "Future State" made their relationship subtext, at best, and the closest thing we have for confirmation that that universe's variants are lovers is the author Tweeting emojis of a blond-haired woman and a black-haired one holding hands surrounded by LGBTQ-colored hearts. If it was supposed to set up a Steph/Cass romance (and not just be the author "unofficially" doing it), you'd think that it would be more explicit. Steph and Tim's breakup was decided by the creative team working on Tim, so that's happenstance, at best. Steph chasing a boy in the current story arcs and Cass being supportive also seem to argue against it, even if it is the case that Kyle isn't going to be a long-term thing. Also not sure if DC is willing to make such a major change to the canon that will be much harder to reset (that's assuming that Bernard isn't supposed to replace Steph as Tim's OTP and all that). It also seems likely that, if there was going to be a Steph/Cass love story that DC would be hyping it up.

On the other hand, I do remember seeing a random user on Reddit claiming that the supervising editor of the comics shipped Steph/Cass. There's no citation, so I wouldn't trust the claim, but, if it was true, that would make it more likely to happen. While confirmation bias is a thing, I'll also concede that there have been more than a few bits in the series that seem like they're going a bit beyond being close friends (first arc has Cass holding Steph faces inches apart while the latter is coming out of a gas episode, while Steph calls her a "babe" in the ear-piercing scene; the second arc has that bit where, after their idea to sneak into the Iceberg Lounge as clubbers is rejected, Steph comments that Cass looks good dressed up or not in a kinda random observation; and the summer arc has that "I'll never let anything happen to you" bit while they're sitting arm in arm). Like I said, it's most likely that it's confirmation bias to see those bits as suggesting more than friendship, but still.

The series is still ongoing, so, if a relationship upgrade was in the cards (big if, mind you), there would be still room for a slow burn. In fact, one of the upcoming issues is supposed to be have a plot which would be a decent scenario for one or both of them to realize that the other more than just a friend to them. Logically, there are three possibilities; Steph/Cass isn't going to happen and we've just been reading too much into things, it is going to happen and it's just been a subtle buildup, or it's not going to happen but the creative team has been ship teasing them for the fans or something like that.

Personally, I'd be all for them getting together, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

[ohfellow]

You've written an excellent summary of the situation.

It's possible, but I doubt it. Excusing the fact that the characters being close is often seen being decent platform for a friends-to-lovers story, arguably the only explicit reason that the theory has gotten traction was that their backup story in the "Future State" comics (a series designed to seed stuff for the current runs) apparently depicted them a broken up couple rekindling their relationship and that Steph was dumped by her boyfriend in a pretty final way (as final as anything gets in comics, of course).

The obvious counterpoints are that "Future State" made their relationship subtext, at best, and the closest thing we have for confirmation that that universe's variants are lovers is the author Tweeting emojis of a blond-haired woman and a black-haired one holding hands surrounded by LGBTQ-colored hearts. If it was supposed to set up a Steph/Cass romance (and not just be the author "unofficially" doing it), you'd think that it would be more explicit. Steph and Tim's breakup was decided by the creative team working on Tim, so that's happenstance, at best. Steph chasing a boy in the current story arcs and Cass being supportive also seem to argue against it, even if it is the case that Kyle isn't going to be a long-term thing. Also not sure if DC is willing to make such a major change to the canon that will be much harder to reset (that's assuming that Bernard isn't supposed to replace Steph as Tim's OTP and all that). It also seems likely that, if there was going to be a Steph/Cass love story that DC would be hyping it up.

On the other hand, I do remember seeing a random user on Reddit claiming that the supervising editor of the comics shipped Steph/Cass. There's no citation, so I wouldn't trust the claim, but, if it was true, that would make it more likely to happen.

Supervising editor? Do you/they mean the editor Jessica Chen? Or Ben Abernathy, who is the Bat office group editor?

While confirmation bias is a thing, I'll also concede that there have been more than a few bits in the series that seem like they're going a bit beyond being close friends (first arc has Cass holding Steph faces inches apart while the latter is coming out of a gas episode, while Steph calls her a "babe" in the ear-piercing scene; the second arc has that bit where, after their idea to sneak into the Iceberg Lounge as clubbers is rejected, Steph comments that Cass looks good dressed up or not in a kinda random observation; and the summer arc has that "I'll never let anything happen to you" bit while they're sitting arm in arm). Like I said, it's most likely that it's confirmation bias to see those bits as suggesting more than friendship, but still.

I don't ship them, and would rather it be confirmed as not happening. But I see it, probably as strongly as anyone, as being written in fairly obviously. So I watch this happening with some disappointment, but it seems so obvious that I wonder if those who don't see it are in denial. (A "rejection bias" if you will.)

DC has made major changes to Tim Drake and Jon Kent, and to the age, weight and build of Supergirl. They aren't shying away from making significant changes to younger characters.

The series is still ongoing, so, if a relationship upgrade was in the cards (big if, mind you), there would be still room for a slow burn. In fact, one of the upcoming issues is supposed to be have a plot which would be a decent scenario for one or both of them to realize that the other more than just a friend to them. Logically, there are three possibilities; Steph/Cass isn't going to happen and we've just been reading too much into things, it is going to happen and it's just been a subtle buildup, or it's not going to happen but the creative team has been ship teasing them for the fans or something like that.

Personally, I'd be all for them getting together, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

I think there are several more "suggestive" moments than you cite, so I think the "evidence" is even stronger.

In the Annual, Steph clearly starts to tell Cass "And remember, I love you", and Cass interrupts her with a loud "-- Don't." She adds "Don't talk so much." The standalone "Don't" is what someone says when they aren't ready to hear someone else say "I love you" in a romantic sense. I speculate that Cloonan and Conrad added "Don't talk so much" after that to establish their usual plausible deniability - that Cass wasn't objecting to perceived romantic content, but only to the quantity of speech. Our writers continually eat their cake and have it.

In #12: "I can't hide anything from you, can I Cass?" "No, never." Sure, could be friends. It's not how anyone I know talks, but could be.

In #11, Steph is jealous when Cass says Maps is fun, and Cass reassures her "You're the most fun. Always."

In #8, Steph wraps her body around Cass as they escape the elevator. Change the angles of their faces slightly in the 2 panels, and the posture is more suggestive than merely two people kissing.

In #7 Cass is dressed as a man, and that's the issue where Steph later says Cass always looks good.

If this is teasing, Cloonan and Conrad have gone well beyond what's "needed", because shipping will happen even in the absence of any encouragement, let alone this amount. What they are doing is dousing speculation with fuel and lighting it on fire. It's possible they are just unsubtle writers who don't realize how blatant and over-the-top their teasing is coming across. After all, their authorial intrusions, and the editor's, show they are all fairly tone deaf - there isn't a single reader who has said they actually LIKE the banter, but there are frequent complaints by readers who don't. But they've had a full year now to just stop that juvenile narration - so, the obvious conclusion is they, oddly, think it's actually amusing.

But let's assume among the 4 of them (Cloonan, Conrad, Chen and Abernathy) at least one is on top of things, so the writing is under control and what they are doing is deliberate. Then this is more likely to be a slow burn than an unsubtle, over-the-top, inept attempt at teasing.

[millernumber1]

I am not able to fully track down the source on this, but here ya go:

https://twitter.com/ServantofDagon/s...52268746174466

(going to type up the reported stuff from Cloonan):

"Had a big long chat with Becky Cloonan about Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. She confirmed they are, in her opinion, a queer-platonic relationship. We discussed if they should kiss - I'm a "no" and so was she. We agreed showing non-sexual romantic relationships is too important."

[ChangingStation]

So, basically, "if you want to read it in that way, that's great, but it's fine if you don't."

Basically like Dinah and Babs in Simone's Birds of Prey.

I personally kind of prefer how things are going with Kyle right now if only because they're making a point to address Steph's recent breakup. But also because they make a point of having a pretty nice panel with their hands linking by fingers creating sparks, making you feel the tension in it. It's a small thing, but it did stick out pretty well.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I am not able to fully track down the source on this, but here ya go:

https://twitter.com/ServantofDagon/s...52268746174466

(going to type up the reported stuff from Cloonan):

"Had a big long chat with Becky Cloonan about Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. She confirmed they are, in her opinion, a queer-platonic relationship. We discussed if they should kiss - I'm a "no" and so was she. We agreed showing non-sexual romantic relationships is too important."

What the hell is a "queer-platonic relationship"

[ohfellow]

What the hell is a "queer-platonic relationship"

First, I must admit I don't understand what @ServantofDagon's viewpoint even is. It's a certain kind of online barely English argumentation that I guess I'm too old to grasp. She's expressing contempt for someone, but I don't know who, and I don't know why.

As for what she is quoting, queer-platonic, I had to look that up. There's a wiki for the aromantic community, and it is coining terms for concepts and representing them with flags at a pretty good pace - most of the vocabulary is less than 10 years old.

https://aromantic.fandom.com/wiki/Qu...c_Relationship

Seems to mean "quirky" platonic, maybe describing a relationship that is between romantic and platonic, and as far as I can tell, sexuality isn't even relevant to it, though ideas about aromance may have been first discussed in LGBTQ communities.

Odd for the Batgirls relationship to be defined using terms from this little-known community.