Batgirls

[ohfellow]

I don't ship them. I prefer them straight. I just report what I see. It looks to me like Cloonan, Conrad and Chen do ship them. In this issue, first it's the body language when dancing, upper bodies nearly touching. (They would touch if this were seen in motion - they are too close not to. I wonder if this was written into the script, or was Rodriguez's choice). And then the way Steph brings up Selina in latex. Comic book scripts have to be very economical. The writers can have Steph say ANYTHING in the world, but they had her choose to bring up Selina in sexual terms, out of the blue and for no reason. Ask yourself "why"? Yes, Selina does look good in latex, but it's the analogy the writers put into Steph's mind and words. A script reveals character - words aren't chosen randomly.

I never look for these things, or at least didn't used to but times have changed, and it seems to me to be exploding off the page, in a way that is difficult to miss. Maybe it's not shippers who are imagining things, but non-shippers who are hoping for alternate explanations. I would count myself among them, but if I'm being honest, I see what I see.

I do hope they leave this status quo by the series finale, leave it quasi-ambiguous so non-shippers can reasonably stick to their opinion or remain on the fence about what may be implied. But maybe Chen will want Cloonan and Conrad to make this explicit on their way out the door. Think of it as a grenade they might toss on their way out, just because they can. To put a stake in the ground for anyone who follows up with these characters.

I have a feeling they will leave it as is, to possibly be addressed if the Batgirls get another spotlight in the future. We'll find out soon enough.

[ComicNoobie]

Strange, I didn't give much thought to Steph's Selina comment until reading the post above. It's something to think about. I've already stated I would prefer Steph and Cass just keep their sisterhood. I don't need them to be a couple to show how close they are. The comics have done a good enough job thus far showcasing they love one another without making them a couple. I wouldn't hate it but I just don't think it's necessary.

[WebLurker]

I don't ship them. I prefer them straight. I just report what I see. It looks to me like Cloonan, Conrad and Chen do ship them. In this issue, first it's the body language when dancing, upper bodies nearly touching. (They would touch if this were seen in motion - they are too close not to. I wonder if this was written into the script, or was Rodriguez's choice). And then the way Steph brings up Selina in latex. Comic book scripts have to be very economical. The writers can have Steph say ANYTHING in the world, but they had her choose to bring up Selina in sexual terms, out of the blue and for no reason. Ask yourself "why"? Yes, Selina does look good in latex, but it's the analogy the writers put into Steph's mind and words. A script reveals character - words aren't chosen randomly.

I never look for these things, or at least didn't used to but times have changed, and it seems to me to be exploding off the page, in a way that is difficult to miss. Maybe it's not shippers who are imagining things, but non-shippers who are hoping for alternate explanations. I would count myself among them, but if I'm being honest, I see what I see.

A bit behind in the series, sad to say (shipment issues with my local stores and haven't been desperate enough yet to just buy stuff online), but yeah, that Catwoman reference does not sound like a "platonic" thing. (So we're on the same page, is the Catwoman reference just pointing to Steph being attracted to women in general or is she favorably comparing Cass to a latex-wearing Selina or something?)

I do hope they leave this status quo by the series finale, leave it quasi-ambiguous so non-shippers can reasonably stick to their opinion or remain on the fence about what may be implied. But maybe Chen will want Cloonan and Conrad to make this explicit on their way out the door. Think of it as a grenade they might toss on their way out, just because they can. To put a stake in the ground for anyone who follows up with these characters.

I have a feeling they will leave it as is, to possibly be addressed if the Batgirls get another spotlight in the future. We'll find out soon enough.

I think that there are generally three possibilities: The writers are or were planning to have Steph and Cass fall in love (wether or not they pull the trigger before the series ends or if future writers continue the idea), the writers were not and we've just been reading too much into things (or they did a poor job at representing platonic love), or they purposefully put romantic subtext to "throw a bone" to fans of the idea without planning (or being allowed) to actually have them get together. Unless the writers go on record as what they had in mind with how they were writing the pair, it's anyone's guess, although I kinda suspect that we won't see them enter a relationship, whether that be because it was never in the cards or because the series got cut short.

Strange, I didn't give much thought to Steph's Selina comment until reading the post above. It's something to think about. I've already stated I would prefer Steph and Cass just keep their sisterhood. I don't need them to be a couple to show how close they are. The comics have done a good enough job thus far showcasing they love one another without making them a couple. I wouldn't hate it but I just don't think it's necessary.

Maybe not, although it kinda seems like there needs to be some kind of payoff for all the stuff we've been seeing.

[ohfellow]

A bit behind in the series, sad to say (shipment issues with my local stores and haven't been desperate enough yet to just buy stuff online), but yeah, that Catwoman reference does not sound like a "platonic" thing. (So we're on the same page, is the Catwoman reference just pointing to Steph being attracted to women in general or is she favorably comparing Cass to a latex-wearing Selina or something?)

Sorry I am responding so late - but, I thought it suggested in general that Steph can be sexually attracted to women.

[WebLurker]

Sorry I am responding so late - but, I thought it suggested in general that Steph can be sexually attracted to women.

Okay.

10char

[Darkspellmaster]

Sorry I am responding so late - but, I thought it suggested in general that Steph can be sexually attracted to women.

When was this?

[ohfellow]

When was this?

It's in a panel from Batgirls #17.

Batgirls 17.jpg

[Frontier]

It's in a panel from Batgirls #17.

Batgirls 17.jpg

Well, it is an undeniable truth .

[Majesty]

Well, it is an undeniable truth.

I mean.. did people not know this about Steph? Remember when she first met Zatanna?



also

[Frontier]

I mean.. did people not know this about Steph? Remember when she first met Zatanna?



also

Just talking about Catwoman in general.

[The Lucky One]

I mean, objectively in American society, it’s far more common and culturally accepted for women to compliment each others’ appearances and attractiveness without any sexual desire being imputed to it. Women can say things like, “Damn, you look hot in that outfit” or “Your ass looks great in those jeans!” to each other without automatically being considered gay or bisexual. Whereas a guy who says, “Wow Chris, that shirt really brings out your eyes!” is going to be presumed gay by most people who overhear. It’s a double standard, for sure, and not one I’m defending, but it’s objectively true.

Obviously everyone will have their own take, but I don’t read “Does Catwoman look good in latex?” as any more indicative of Steph being gay or bisexual than if she’d said, “Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?”

[Majesty]

Stephanie has been flustered by women in comics.
She's confirmed to have been in a relationship with Cassandra in Future State.
She's been coded this way for a while.
This isn't the first time her and Cass have been coded like this


The narration in the dance scene is talking about the both of them, talking about them reveling in their moment together, like they revel in a fight or a kiss as their bodies slowly turn towards each other and get closer before they're interrupted.
Cass pulled down her mask to kiss Steph when she came back. Steph wrote to Cassandra that she loved her, and it wasn't the end of her letter.

They can't really throw much else at people outside of making them start making out center frame. But by this point if this was a hetero situation, people would have already understood that a story was being told about the two of them being implied as having feelings for one another.

The problem is people work so hard to not see it. The plausible deniability in the face of non-het relationships despite all the things being thrown at the audience that if it was a hetero situation they'd have seen it clearly by now is super frustrating.

Whenever it's het comic characters/pairings you know when there's an interest or when it's leading to them potentially getting together, with non-het pairings deniability is held on to the last thread until they're allowed to actually kiss on the comic page. It needs to get to a point where they don't need to kiss yet for people to see it headed in that direction.

[WebLurker]

Stephanie has been flustered by women in comics.
She's confirmed to have been in a relationship with Cassandra in Future State.
She's been coded this way for a while.

Not sure how "official" the Future State one was (DC never commented on it, for one), although I do agree you don't need to squint much to read it as a broken-up couple rekindling their relationship.

This isn't the first time her and Cass have been coded like this

Given that the comic has Steph going back to Tim at the end, not sure that one really works that well for arguing that she and Cass have or could develop feelings for each other (when read through that lens, the bottom line seems to be that Steph dumps her for Tim).

The narration in the dance scene is talking about the both of them, talking about them reveling in their moment together, like they revel in a fight or a kiss as their bodies slowly turn towards each other and get closer before they're interrupted.
Cass pulled down her mask to kiss Steph when she came back. Steph wrote to Cassandra that she loved her, and it wasn't the end of her letter.

Suppose you could also factor in them undressing together in the first arc when coming back from patrol all grimy, when Steph snaps out of the mind control haze, they're holding each other and doing the forehead thing (also first arc), the Annual uses a whole page to make the point that these two are extra close, and the whole Freaky Friday final act (Cass frantically trying to find Steph) wouldn't be out of place in love story subplot. (Kinda recall Steph calling Cass "Babe" at one point, but forget where.)

They can't really throw much else at people outside of making them start making out center frame. But by this point if this was a hetero situation, people would have already understood that a story was being told about the two of them being implied as having feelings for one another.

The problem is people work so hard to not see it. The plausible deniability in the face of non-het relationships despite all the things being thrown at the audience that if it was a hetero situation they'd have seen it clearly by now is super frustrating.

Whenever it's het comic characters/pairings you know when there's an interest or when it's leading to them potentially getting together, with non-het pairings deniability is held on to the last thread until they're allowed to actually kiss on the comic page. It needs to get to a point where they don't need to kiss yet for people to see it headed in that direction.

So, what do we make of the situation if DC doesn't end up putting them together?

[GreyFox]

If they do end up in a sexual relationship, would that be regarded as an improvement?

[Will Evans]

If they do end up in a sexual relationship, would that be regarded as an improvement?

Idk. Has Harley and Pam together been an improvement?