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Thread: Batgirls

  1. #31
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Depends on how you look at it i guess. Babs is going to be pretty much playing second fiddle to her own Legacy. Having to be there to legitimize it, but not seeing any of the narrative benefits or importance. Its not about seeing her in the field. Its about her purpose and how she will be used. Take her role in Future State for example and what was done with here there. Thats the model readers can look forward to with Babs in Batgirls. Whether you see something wrong about that is a matter of perspective. Just imagine if Dick's future narrative prospects fell to the upcoming Robins book.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-15-2021 at 01:59 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Is there something wrong with that though? Part of the aspect that made Babs unique was that she was willing to let the other girls get to take on the Legacy of Batgirl. I can still see her going on the field from time to time if there's a big enough threat.
    Batgirl wasn’t a legacy to be passed down. She was an independent ally, fighting for what was right because she could. Steph and Cass can do the exact same thing and be the same people under ANY name. Babs either gets to be an active hero, or just a support character and exposition. She shouldn’t have to be coordinating behind the scenes, she should be able to take charge on the field all the time.

    Imagine if Dick was just there to stand in a corner and tell Jason, Damian and Tim what to do. Oh, but it’s be fine though, because him getting out of the way is clearly the most noble and powerful thing he could do, because he’s going to prop up other characters now.

    You see how this sounds? But then, I suppose it only matters if you really love Babs, or if you love the other two better.
    Last edited by Domino_Dare-Doll; 08-15-2021 at 02:21 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Batgirl wasn’t a legacy to be passed down. She was an independent ally, fighting for what was right because she could. Steph and Cass can do the exact same thing and be the same people under ANY name. Babs either gets to be an active hero, or just a support character and exposition. She shouldn’t have to be coordinating behind the scenes, she should be able to take charge on the field all the time.

    Imagine if Dick was just there to stand in a corner and tell Jason, Damian and Tim what to do. Oh, but it’s be fine though, because him getting out of the way is clearly the most noble and powerful thing he could do, because he’s going to prop up other characters now.

    You see how this sounds? But then, I suppose it only matters if you really love Babs, or if you love the other two better.
    Please don’t dismiss the fact that over these past months we’ve also been treated to a lot of great art depicting Barbara not just barking into a microphone, but dynamically eating. And that’s what I buy superhero comics for. Amazing eating art.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicbattery View Post
    Please don’t dismiss the fact that over these past months we’ve also been treated to a lot of great art depicting Barbara not just barking into a microphone, but dynamically eating. And that’s what I buy superhero comics for. Amazing eating art.
    Clearly the Bat-Family would fall apart without such crunching into the mic. Yes, this has been a wonderful year for Barbara, hasn’t it? Such ‘importance!’

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Batgirl wasn’t a legacy to be passed down. She was an independent ally, fighting for what was right because she could. Steph and Cass can do the exact same thing and be the same people under ANY name. Babs either gets to be an active hero, or just a support character and exposition. She shouldn’t have to be coordinating behind the scenes, she should be able to take charge on the field all the time.
    That isn't true. Stephanie and Cassandra have been relegated to supporting characters, forgotten and erased from the universe without the Batgirl mantle.

    Don't misunderstand me, I don't like Barbara in the Oracle role, since I think it's too limited. However, I always though Barbara needs Batgirl less than Stephanie or Cassandra.

    Barbara is more iconic and she could have a new identity.


    PS: Robin wasn't a legacy character either. This happened because DC wanted that

  6. #36
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    That isn't true. Stephanie and Cassandra have been relegated to supporting characters, forgotten and erased from the universe without the Batgirl mantle.

    Don't misunderstand me, I don't like Barbara in the Oracle role, since I think it's too limited. However, I always though Barbara needs Batgirl less than Stephanie or Cassandra.

    Barbara is more iconic and she could have a new identity.


    PS: Robin wasn't a legacy character either. This happened because DC wanted that
    Babs was very successful as Oracle, a lot of fans preferred her as Oracle to Batgirl.
    It would be clumsy to walk it back now, but Babs as Oracle and Steph or Cassandra as Batgirl would be my preferred set up. I think Black Bat was a pretty good code name for Cassandra.

  7. #37
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    This thread makes me despair.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  8. #38
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    This thread makes me despair.
    For all the ensuing fan fights when we get an actual Batgirls book...?

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    Babs was very successful as Oracle, a lot of fans preferred her as Oracle to Batgirl.
    I see it mentioned often and I wonder how many of those fans had actually read any Batgirl comics before Babs got paralysed?

  10. #40
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    None. They just site Kelly Puckett’s retcons for her being a side-kick and declare her as “The weakest” or “Most Boring Batgirl” without seeing her growth as a hero from 1967-1970’s.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    You can’t because you don’t. You like the idea of Batgirl, but you never understood what she stood for. You didn’t care and still don’t.

    And that doesn’t change what happened. Taylor advertised Barbara to be as much Batgirl as she was Oracle in her Nightwing run…but she wasn’t. I mean? Gosh darn it, must have been a mix up? Couldn’t have been Tynion’s obvious mandate that I pointed out to you in the same week?? Because it was obvious. And it’s still obvious what’s going to happen because it’s a clear correlation in attitude to Tynion as a writer and ‘fans’ who tear down Barbara’s Batgirl in favour of Cass and/or Steph (seen them turning on each other quite quick.)

    Which brings us back to the matter at hand. The pattern of behaviour: there was absolutely no issue in calling both Tim and Damian Robin in their respective solicitations or their appearances. Babs hasn’t gotten that. Other writers don’t even seem to be allowed to call her Batgirl: Taylor has her mention, in regards to her name “I have three.” But she’s never referred to herself as Batgirl. There always seems to be a convenient excuse for her to keep out of the way. And then the distinction from Babs to The Batgirls.

    Ergo, we can assume that this supposed spin-off book is starring Cass and Steph, with Babs just in the background. Which isn’t fair, nor is it a Batgirls book. Not without Barbara.


    And, no, see: you don’t love Barbara’s Batgirl, because you spout that. The retcon.

    Barbara Gordon’s Batgirl was created in 1967 to stand on equal ground as Batman. She was his ally, operating independently but never beneath him, as evidenced in the classic strips where she would take Robin as HER side-kick. She was self-taught, never trained by Bruce, which is part of what makes her so compelling and also why her solo has been so versatile and long-lived. Because she isn’t dependent on anyone else: she can overlap and help out, but she has her OWN motives and beliefs, unlike Steph and Cass who live in that shadow.

    Except, now she’s not even a sidekick in the current run. She’s a tool. Because there’s nothing else for her outside of Bruce’s drama, not even a plot. Maybe Nightwing…but that’s not her story, that’s Dicks.

    A Batgirls book? Nope. Steph and Cass.
    Even with a batgirl Barbra Gordon movie on the horizon? Do you think fearstate is a coincidence along with Scarecrow being a central villain in titans. Barbra Gordon will be front and center of any Batgirls book

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Even with a batgirl Barbra Gordon movie on the horizon? Do you think fearstate is a coincidence along with Scarecrow being a central villain in titans. Barbra Gordon will be front and center of any Batgirls book
    Hey, I am hoping to be wrong here! But it seems too obvious to me that, either DC is too fearful to commit to one direction, or Tynion’s mandates for the line won’t let anyone call her Batgirl. Hence the new costume: misleading advertising to make people think they’re advertising Batgirl without actually advertising Batgirl. Why cancel her solo otherwise? Or not commit to giving her more time as Batgirl? More merch? Basically what we had in rebirth when her popularity seemed to skyrocket?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Even with a batgirl Barbra Gordon movie on the horizon? Do you think fearstate is a coincidence along with Scarecrow being a central villain in titans. Barbra Gordon will be front and center of any Batgirls book
    But also: by what parameters are you defining “Front and center”? Because, not actually suiting up isn’t that. That’s just “Oh, here’s Babs too.”

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    You're right, Cass and Steph haven't done much. It's almost as if for the past decade plus DC was run by an EiC obsessed with the past and Silver Age. Hmm...
    Or. Or, hear me out…

    There’s just ****-all to do with them.

  15. #45
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    Wow after reading the last few threads here in front of me...someone is really pissed off or really really really loves Batgirl.

    All joking aside I would rather see Babs in the costume being called Batgirl and let the other two, Cass and Steph go by their original names. Barbara is a very strong character and has held her own for many years now (I have been in love with Babs for many many years now). Loved her as Oracle, loved seeing Joker shoot her spine out...but then I wanted her back in the costume. What they did to her in the New 52 was not my favorite.

    Now dont hate on anything I just said. I am just getting back into comics after a few years away. So I see Babs is back as Oracle. So far I do not mind it. I am hoping though sooner than later we get her back in the costume and her own book. Either way I am looking forward to the Batgirls series.
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