Batgirls

[Felipe Silveira]

I am not able to fully track down the source on this, but here ya go:

https://twitter.com/ServantofDagon/s...52268746174466

(going to type up the reported stuff from Cloonan):

"Had a big long chat with Becky Cloonan about Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. She confirmed they are, in her opinion, a queer-platonic relationship. We discussed if they should kiss - I'm a "no" and so was she. We agreed showing non-sexual romantic relationships is too important."

If it was said on twitter or in an interview but it's not in the comic, it doesn't exist.

[WebLurker]

You've written an excellent summary of the situation.

Thanks.

Supervising editor? Do you/they mean the editor Jessica Chen? Or Ben Abernathy, who is the Bat office group editor?

I really don't remember. Kinda want to say it was Chen, but I couldn't swear on it.

I don't ship them, and would rather it be confirmed as not happening. But I see it, probably as strongly as anyone, as being written in fairly obviously. So I watch this happening with some disappointment, but it seems so obvious that I wonder if those who don't see it are in denial. (A "rejection bias" if you will.)

Fair enough.

DC has made major changes to Tim Drake and Jon Kent, and to the age, weight and build of Supergirl. They aren't shying away from making significant changes to younger characters.

Sure and seeing as Cass doesn't really have a definitive love interest, giving her one now wouldn't mess up the "evergreen" aspects of the character. Thing is I'm not sure if the Powers That Be want Steph to be "available" to be Tim's love interest.

I think there are several more "suggestive" moments than you cite, so I think the "evidence" is even stronger.

In the Annual, Steph clearly starts to tell Cass "And remember, I love you", and Cass interrupts her with a loud "-- Don't." She adds "Don't talk so much." The standalone "Don't" is what someone says when they aren't ready to hear someone else say "I love you" in a romantic sense. I speculate that Cloonan and Conrad added "Don't talk so much" after that to establish their usual plausible deniability - that Cass wasn't objecting to perceived romantic content, but only to the quantity of speech. Our writers continually eat their cake and have it.

In #12: "I can't hide anything from you, can I Cass?" "No, never." Sure, could be friends. It's not how anyone I know talks, but could be.

In #11, Steph is jealous when Cass says Maps is fun, and Cass reassures her "You're the most fun. Always."

In #8, Steph wraps her body around Cass as they escape the elevator. Change the angles of their faces slightly in the 2 panels, and the posture is more suggestive than merely two people kissing.

In #7 Cass is dressed as a man, and that's the issue where Steph later says Cass always looks good.

If this is teasing, Cloonan and Conrad have gone well beyond what's "needed", because shipping will happen even in the absence of any encouragement, let alone this amount. What they are doing is dousing speculation with fuel and lighting it on fire. It's possible they are just unsubtle writers who don't realize how blatant and over-the-top their teasing is coming across. After all, their authorial intrusions, and the editor's, show they are all fairly tone deaf - there isn't a single reader who has said they actually LIKE the banter, but there are frequent complaints by readers who don't. But they've had a full year now to just stop that juvenile narration - so, the obvious conclusion is they, oddly, think it's actually amusing.

But let's assume among the 4 of them (Cloonan, Conrad, Chen and Abernathy) at least one is on top of things, so the writing is under control and what they are doing is deliberate. Then this is more likely to be a slow burn than an unsubtle, over-the-top, inept attempt at teasing.

Sure. Kinda thought the elevator escape was a bit of a stretch (they need to share the cable, so it's not like there was any other way to hang on), but I can see the point.

(I think the narration does get to be a bit much at times, but I don't have a huge issue with it. Did like the joke where they use it to censor a blue streak.)

I am not able to fully track down the source on this, but here ya go:

https://twitter.com/ServantofDagon/s...52268746174466

(going to type up the reported stuff from Cloonan):

"Had a big long chat with Becky Cloonan about Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. She confirmed they are, in her opinion, a queer-platonic relationship. We discussed if they should kiss - I'm a "no" and so was she. We agreed showing non-sexual romantic relationships is too important."

Didn't see that one, but okay. Sounds like it's a "no" on a relationship upgrade. If so, really weird writing to be teasing something they decided they're not going to be delivering on. I mean, what's the point of setup with no payoff (even if it was something along the lines of "maybe there's something there that we could explore, but we shouldn't")?

If it was said on twitter or in an interview but it's not in the comic, it doesn't exist.

Still, if that's the marching orders for the comic, it doesn't really matter where it came from; if the authors' were never planning to go anywhere with their shipteasing, then it's never going to happen.

[Hypo]

Batgirls #13 Preview
Writers: Becky Cloonan and Michael W. Conrad
Artist: Jonathan Case

[millernumber1]

New art looks pretty great! One of the complaints about Shiva in the Annual is addressed pretty quickly here!

[ComicNoobie]

Agreed about the art, it looks good. Can't wait to see more and looks like Steph is officially a vegetarian now...no burgers for Steph. I can't wait for this to come out and read it. The preview alone has me salivating for more.

[ChangingStation]

Agreed about the art, it looks good. Can't wait to see more and looks like Steph is officially a vegetarian now...no burgers for Steph. I can't wait for this to come out and read it. The preview alone has me salivating for more.

Or that's all that she was given. Let's not jump to conclusions because she was shown eating Brocoli.

It has pretty great colouring.

[ohfellow]

Batgirls #13 Preview
Writers: Becky Cloonan and Michael W. Conrad
Artist: Jonathan Case

Objectively the worst cover of all time. (OK, I admit that was an opinion.)

I like Jonathan Case's art here - it looks like normal comic art. Has a slightly indy look to it, but it's good. Though it's very low on backgrounds, it's crystal clear. Corona's backgrounds were sketchy and messy, and got blurred by Sarah Stern's monochrome palette.

Steph (Cass in Steph's body) absolutely looks like an adult.

Too much pink, of course. At this point I think it's time to stop laying the blame on the poor colorists - I think it's safe to speculate that the editor Jessica Chen is asking for lots of pink.

[ComicNoobie]

Or that's all that she was given. Let's not jump to conclusions because she was shown eating Brocoli.

It has pretty great colouring.

That's true. Maybe Cass will eat in Steph's body and when the switch back she decides she will not give up the burger after all. It's genius lol.

[millernumber1]

Agreed about the art, it looks good. Can't wait to see more and looks like Steph is officially a vegetarian now...no burgers for Steph. I can't wait for this to come out and read it. The preview alone has me salivating for more.

Given that both Cloonan and Conrad are vegans, I think she is. Sadly, because of my own experience with vegetarians/vegans, it's a bit annoying. But they did give Steph some character reasons for it, so it's not wholly arbitrary.

[ChangingStation]

Objectively the worst cover of all time. (OK, I admit that was an opinion.)

I like Jonathan Case's art here - it looks like normal comic art. Has a slightly indy look to it, but it's good. Though it's very low on backgrounds, it's crystal clear. Corona's backgrounds were sketchy and messy, and got blurred by Sarah Stern's monochrome palette.

Steph (Cass in Steph's body) absolutely looks like an adult.

Too much pink, of course. At this point I think it's time to stop laying the blame on the poor colorists - I think it's safe to speculate that the editor Jessica Chen is asking for lots of pink.

Truthfully I found the colouring surprisingly effective at being used to create atmosphere. Especially as the colouring got darker from the earlier issues.

[Frontier]

That Dan Mora Batgirl...Wow!

Steph in Cass' body might explain the dress with the plunging neckline because I feel like Steph would be more okay with that than Cass would.

Shiva looks...surprisingly mod. And of course she's not fooled for even five seconds.

I wonder if Cass would've more easily gotten out if she had her own body since she's used to how that moves and not Steph's. She's also got more hair to deal with.

"I died" - Which time? But it is very Cluemaster to try and bond with his daughter in the most psychotic way possible.

[millernumber1]

That Dan Mora Batgirl...Wow!

Steph in Cass' body might explain the dress with the plunging neckline because I feel like Steph would be more okay with that than Cass would.

Shiva looks...surprisingly mod. And of course she's not fooled for even five seconds.

I wonder if Cass would've more easily gotten out if she had her own body since she's used to how that moves and not Steph's. She's also got more hair to deal with.

"I died" - Which time? But it is very Cluemaster to try and bond with his daughter in the most psychotic way possible.

My guess is that Shiva only gave her one dress option. Though given she knows it's not Cass, that might have influenced her choice. Still, doesn't seem like Shiva would have a bunch of clothes just in case Cass was body swapped!

I'm quite excited about this arc, honestly.

[Digifiend]

Makes sense that Shiva saw through Steph!Cass straight away. After all, her body language was probably all wrong.

I was wondering about Cass's hair at one point. It's pretty rare to see Cass with long hair. She's had it long before when she was Black Bat I think?

Yeah, when she was a villain for a while, shortly before Steph took over as Batgirl, I think? Anyway, the preview for the next issue shows the long hair this time to definitely be an art error, as it's short again.

[Godlike13]

Wait, since when does Shiva "know" Cassandra?

[ComicNoobie]

Given that both Cloonan and Conrad are vegans, I think she is. Sadly, because of my own experience with vegetarians/vegans, it's a bit annoying. But they did give Steph some character reasons for it, so it's not wholly arbitrary.

Well hopefully it's a quick phase. Still hoping Cassandra's body swap will change her mind. Still I'm very excited for this arc. How will Steph get away from Shiva? And will Cluemaster figure out Cass isn't Steph? Cass will only be in danger if she can't properly "drive" Steph's body otherwise she's got this.