Batgirls

[millernumber1]

I just saw on Amazon, that Batgirls Vol 2 is going to be called "Bat Girl Summer!" and will be available in March next year. I'm going to put a reminder to get that in my 2023 calendar! More Batgirls equals more fun! Also Steph's kiddie pool

Steph's kiddie pool was such a fun little detail!

[KyleWayne]

I was a hardcore fan of Steph’s 2009 series. How does this measure up? I don’t like post-Flashpoint DC so I’ll probably never read it but I’m curious about your thoughts.

[KyleWayne]

Yeah - those stories happened, but are no longer their origins. Steph simply reverted to Spoiler and Cass changed her codename to Orphan because Babs was operating as Batgirl again.

It's like Cyborg, his New 52 origin involves him becoming Cyborg and immediately joining the Justice League. Now, that was probably just him getting his body upgraded, as he'd been a Titan for quite a few years already. The rest of the story can still happen, but certain things like character origins are no longer part of them.

You just summed up why I hate contemporary DC �� This “everything happened” nonsense is so contradictory and reeks of DC trying to have their cake and eat it too.

I can never justify Cass calling herself “Orphan” when she was adopted by Bruce years before Flashpoint happened. I wish they’d erase everything 2011-present from continuity and just go back to the proper post-Crisis continuity. But they won’t, which is why I will never read anything but pre-Flashpoint back issues ever again.

[Frontier]

You just summed up why I hate contemporary DC �� This “everything happened” nonsense is so contradictory and reeks of DC trying to have their cake and eat it too.

I can never justify Cass calling herself “Orphan” when she was adopted by Bruce years before Flashpoint happened. I wish they’d erase everything 2011-present from continuity and just go back to the proper post-Crisis continuity. But they won’t, which is why I will never read anything but pre-Flashpoint back issues ever again.

I'd have just as rather they wholesale take out B&R Eternal out of continuity...not that they've brought up anything from it in years, it feels like.

[KyleWayne]

I didn’t read B&R Eternal because I felt burned by Batman Eternal. The writers hyped up Steph as playing a big role and being pivotal to the story but she barely appeared. I bought 52 issues of a story I didn’t even want.

[millernumber1]

I was a hardcore fan of Steph’s 2009 series. How does this measure up? I don’t like post-Flashpoint DC so I’ll probably never read it but I’m curious about your thoughts.

It's very, very different. Steph has a lot of great character moments in the current Batgirls title, but she is an ensemble lead, not a solo lead, and so her arc has a very different shape and feel. The writing style is much more quirky/indie than BQM's more Superhero Action Buffy polish. I like both, though I would say I much prefer Steph's BQM series.

I'd have just as rather they wholesale take out B&R Eternal out of continuity...not that they've brought up anything from it in years, it feels like.

I still think the hate for Batman and Robin Eternal is overdone. I think issue #13 is one of the best issues Cass has ever appeared in.

[KyleWayne]

It's very, very different. Steph has a lot of great character moments in the current Batgirls title, but she is an ensemble lead, not a solo lead, and so her arc has a very different shape and feel. The writing style is much more quirky/indie than BQM's more Superhero Action Buffy polish. I like both, though I would say I much prefer Steph's BQM series.



I still think the hate for Batman and Robin Eternal is overdone. I think issue #13 is one of the best issues Cass has ever appeared in.

It’s hard for me to get on board with this regressed version of Steph especially after all the character development in her solo book.

I also won’t read a book where Barbara is up and walking around, so there’s that. Getting rid of Babs’ paralysis ruined her for me. She was such a strong character as Oracle.

[millernumber1]

It’s hard for me to get on board with this regressed version of Steph especially after all the character development in her solo book.

I also won’t read a book where Barbara is up and walking around, so there’s that. Getting rid of Babs’ paralysis ruined her for me. She was such a strong character as Oracle.

You gotta do what you gotta do. Sadly, I don't think Babs will be in the same state of disability that she was in the 90s and 00s again, at least not in the present. The current state where she has "good days and bad days" is the closest anyone's going to get. I am personally ok with it, though I am sad to see that the writers have tried their hardest, and no one - not Babs as Batgirl fans or Babs as Oracle fans - seems to really love it.

[KyleWayne]

You gotta do what you gotta do. Sadly, I don't think Babs will be in the same state of disability that she was in the 90s and 00s again, at least not in the present. The current state where she has "good days and bad days" is the closest anyone's going to get. I am personally ok with it, though I am sad to see that the writers have tried their hardest, and no one - not Babs as Batgirl fans or Babs as Oracle fans - seems to really love it.

I hate to seem like some crabby old person who hates change (I’m only 36 and I like change that’s good). It just seems like when it comes to my favourite characters, DC since Flashpoint has changed them for the worst.

[millernumber1]

I hate to seem like some crabby old person who hates change (I’m only 36 and I like change that’s good). It just seems like when it comes to my favourite characters, DC since Flashpoint has changed them for the worst.

I am the same age, but I got into comics in 2005, so even though I am "old" by comics fandom standards, the changes seem a bit less drastic, I think.

Having been pretty deeply involved in the Steph fandom since 2014, I definitely understand where you're coming from. The n52 did change a ton of characters, and I do think we've lost a lot. How those changes and losses strike us is of course going to vary wildly from fan to fan. But I think there's still a lot to love. And new things to love, too!

[KyleWayne]

I am the same age, but I got into comics in 2005, so even though I am "old" by comics fandom standards, the changes seem a bit less drastic, I think.

Having been pretty deeply involved in the Steph fandom since 2014, I definitely understand where you're coming from. The n52 did change a ton of characters, and I do think we've lost a lot. How those changes and losses strike us is of course going to vary wildly from fan to fan. But I think there's still a lot to love. And new things to love, too!

I’ve been reading comics since I was 5 so I think my POV skews older. I’m glad Steph has a book again, I just wish it appealed to me.

[millernumber1]

I’ve been reading comics since I was 5 so I think my POV skews older. I’m glad Steph has a book again, I just wish it appealed to me.

Yeah, that's why I clarified my own history, because it's not necessarily your age in years, but how long you've been deeply invested in comics.

And much as I do enjoy the current Batgirls book, I do wish it was a bit more mainstream in appeal so it could have a wider audience. But I think DC has been stuck in a bunch of very bad business practices that have destroyed the Batgirl book and audience over the past 20 years, so I'm not sure where they can go from here. Because I don't see any of those business practices changing.

[Frontier]

For now it seems like we'll have three consistent Batgirls and Babs can suit up whenever the story needs her too while doing Oracle stuff on the side. Whether that stays the case moving forward is a different story.

I still think the hate for Batman and Robin Eternal is overdone. I think issue #13 is one of the best issues Cass has ever appeared in.

That's fair. But there's a lot about Cass's use in that book that I didn't care for.

[millernumber1]

For now it seems like we'll have three consistent Batgirls and Babs can suit up whenever the story needs her too while doing Oracle stuff on the side. Whether that stays the case moving forward is a different story.

That's fair. But there's a lot about Cass's use in that book that I didn't care for.

I feel like we're in a weird spot in terms of Batgirls specifically. I don't think the Bat-line is going to be rebooted any time soon, but I think this particular title is going to end at either #18 or (hopefully) #24. What happens next for Babs is probably she stays in Nightwing. What happens next for Steph and Cass? Probably just go to guest spots in other Bat-titles. Given how Taylor completely ignores everything that is happening in Batgirls (and everything else), I think she's just going to be that version of Batgirl going forward until he leaves the book.

As for BRE, people love and hate what they love and hate. I just think that it's a much more complicated series than people give it credit for.

[Frontier]

I feel like we're in a weird spot in terms of Batgirls specifically. I don't think the Bat-line is going to be rebooted any time soon, but I think this particular title is going to end at either #18 or (hopefully) #24. What happens next for Babs is probably she stays in Nightwing. What happens next for Steph and Cass? Probably just go to guest spots in other Bat-titles. Given how Taylor completely ignores everything that is happening in Batgirls (and everything else), I think she's just going to be that version of Batgirl going forward until he leaves the book.

Well, with the solo movie completely shelved, Batgirl as a brand feels like it's in a more precarious spot.

As for BRE, people love and hate what they love and hate. I just think that it's a much more complicated series than people give it credit for.

One thing I can say for it was it was ambitious.