January Detective Comics Event: Shadows of the Bat

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Yes, it was so weird! A person who'd read the issue with no previous knowledge would assume Dick is head over heels in love with her, when the two of them haven't really interacted in forever and he's currently dating Babs.
I know Tamaki is trying to push Huntress and make her a more significant character, but that was just ridiculous.

It works outside of this moment.

[millernumber1]

Yes, it was so weird! A person who'd read the issue with no previous knowledge would assume Dick is head over heels in love with her, when the two of them haven't really interacted in forever and he's currently dating Babs.
I know Tamaki is trying to push Huntress and make her a more significant character, but that was just ridiculous.

I mean, I suppose 2017-18 is a while ago, but it's not exactly forever. Doesn't feel ridiculous, really.

[Lal]

I mean, I suppose 2017-18 is a while ago, but it's not exactly forever. Doesn't feel ridiculous, really.

Dick was in a sort of rebound with the Spyral version of Helena after his breakup with Shawn, but the two weren't in a serious relationship since Grayson (again, a very different version of Helena), and even then it wasn't a real relationship, by the way Dick described it.
And before that and with the current version of Helena... was there anything between them in the last 15 years?

[millernumber1]

Dick was in a sort of rebound with the Spyral version of Helena after his breakup with Shawn, but the two weren't in a serious relationship since Grayson (again, a very different version of Helena), and even then it wasn't a real relationship, by the way Dick described it.
And before that and with the current version of Helena... was there anything between them in the last 15 years?

They have different voices because of different writers and a big gap between Helena's erasure in the n52 and her reappearance in Grayson, but there's a clear continuity from that version of Helena to the one we have today. So there's no "versions" of Helena. There's just Helena Bertinelli, who has a very tangled backstory now with her post-Crisis and post-Flashpoint history, but it's all Helena. You can't just cut pieces of her history off.

As for "real relationship" - I'm not a huge Dick/Helena shipper, but the emotions they developed over Grayson and then consummated in Nightwing during Seeley's run were definitely real. I don't think they work long term, but I reject the idea that "it wasn't a real relationship".

[Lal]

They have different voices because of different writers and a big gap between Helena's erasure in the n52 and her reappearance in Grayson, but there's a clear continuity from that version of Helena to the one we have today. So there's no "versions" of Helena. There's just Helena Bertinelli, who has a very tangled backstory now with her post-Crisis and post-Flashpoint history, but it's all Helena. You can't just cut pieces of her history off.

As for "real relationship" - I'm not a huge Dick/Helena shipper, but the emotions they developed over Grayson and then consummated in Nightwing during Seeley's run were definitely real. I don't think they work long term, but I reject the idea that "it wasn't a real relationship".

Well, Dick described their relationship post Grayson by saying "my relationship with Helena was a lie wrapped in a secret." A lie wrapped in a secret doesn't really qualify as a real relationship, and it's clear from this description Dick didn't see it as one.

I wouldn't mind them getting together if Dick wasn't already dating someone else and if there was some buildup for a relationship between them, but Dick's complete admiration and obsession with Helena in today's issue really came out of nowhere.

[Claude]

I don't mind Dick referencing his romantic past with Helena - but it's a little odd to do it while he's also talking about how much she reminds him of his adopted dad.

(Good issue, though - enjoying this.)

[millernumber1]

Well, Dick described their relationship post Grayson by saying "my relationship with Helena was a lie wrapped in a secret." A lie wrapped in a secret doesn't really qualify as a real relationship, and it's clear from this description Dick didn't see it as one.

I wouldn't mind them getting together if Dick wasn't already dating someone else and if there was some buildup for a relationship between them, but Dick's complete admiration and obsession with Helena in today's issue really came out of nowhere.

The lie, I think, was his role as Agent 37, the secret was his mission for Batman - I don't think his feelings for Helena were ever a lie.

I'm not advocating Dick cheating on Babs. But he's shown care for Helena in the past while also still dating Babs (in NML, the very story referenced). I don't think it's obsession at all - I think he's rightly concerned about her pain and trouble. I would agree that it's come out of nowhere because Helena herself has kind of been MIA since Batgirl and the Birds of Prey ended, but I think it works. Comics always like bringing out the history to justify something that would have made more sense if developed over a bit more time.

I don't mind Dick referencing his romantic past with Helena - but it's a little odd to do it while he's also talking about how much she reminds him of his adopted dad.

(Good issue, though - enjoying this.)

The "Helena is like Batman" thing goes all the way back to Grayson in Dick's mind, and that was also in a romantic context. Weird, but a traditional type of weirdness for Dick.

[TheKryptonMan]

The lie, I think, was his role as Agent 37, the secret was his mission for Batman - I don't think his feelings for Helena were ever a lie.

I'm not advocating Dick cheating on Babs. But he's shown care for Helena in the past while also still dating Babs (in NML, the very story referenced). I don't think it's obsession at all - I think he's rightly concerned about her pain and trouble. I would agree that it's come out of nowhere because Helena herself has kind of been MIA since Batgirl and the Birds of Prey ended, but I think it works. Comics always like bringing out the history to justify something that would have made more sense if developed over a bit more time.



The "Helena is like Batman" thing goes all the way back to Grayson in Dick's mind, and that was also in a romantic context. Weird, but a traditional type of weirdness for Dick.

I really liked the Grayson short lived series and how Dick was working undercover for Bruce.
I actually enjoyed it enough, that I wish that Dick would still be doing this type of spy work off and on.
I know that with Convergence and Rebirth that the status changed for many characters.
Do Helena and Dick still remember their involvement in Spyral ? And romantic feelings ? Is it sill canon or not ?
I'm asking because I only get Batman & Nightwing , but get Detective off and on . So not every Batbook , so just wondering ?
Thanks !!!

[millernumber1]

I really liked the Grayson short lived series and how Dick was working undercover for Bruce.
I actually enjoyed it enough, that I wish that Dick would still be doing this type of spy work off and on.
I know that with Convergence and Rebirth that the status changed for many characters.
Do Helena and Dick still remember their involvement in Spyral ? And romantic feelings ? Is it sill canon or not ?
I'm asking because I only get Batman & Nightwing , but get Detective off and on . So not every Batbook , so just wondering ?
Thanks !!!

Yes, Dick's history with Spyral is still in continuity, and he remembers it. We don't know for sure exactly how it fits into the Death Metal "everything happened" timeline, but it's definitely still canon.

[TheKryptonMan]

Yes, Dick's history with Spyral is still in continuity, and he remembers it. We don't know for sure exactly how it fits into the Death Metal "everything happened" timeline, but it's definitely still canon.

Hey , Thanks for the reply !!! This will be interesting with Helena wanting to stay in Arkham Tower as of last week.
Won't be able to get Detective today , maybe tomorrow .
Thanks again !!!

[millernumber1]

Hey , Thanks for the reply !!! This will be interesting with Helena wanting to stay in Arkham Tower as of last week.
Won't be able to get Detective today , maybe tomorrow .
Thanks again !!!

You are most welcome! Hope you enjoy - I also have to wait till tomorrow to get my comics.

[Hypo]

Detective Comics #1051 Preview
Writer: Mariko Tamaki
Artist: Max Raynor
Backup Writer: Matthew Rosenberg
Backup Artist: Fernando Blanco

[Frontier]

Psycho Pirate gets around.

It is really nice seeing the Batfamily working as a unit again .

[Lal]

Psycho Pirate gets around.

It is really nice seeing the Batfamily working as a unit again .

I'm not sure how I feel about Oracle being the de-facto leader of the batfamily here.

Also, is it a lineup of the batfamily women plus Nightwing? Where is Tim? I'm not a fan of forcing writers to use characters, so I'm fine with them just saying that he's looking for Con or something and therefore can't be there, but it's a bit weird he isn't even mentioned.
Damian is on the Lazarus island, and Jason is leading Task force, but as Tim isn't doing anything in universe, they can at least suggest he's doing something.

[Frontier]

I'm not sure how I feel about Oracle being the de-facto leader of the batfamily here.

Also, is it a lineup of the batfamily women plus Nightwing? Where is Tim? I'm not a fan of forcing writers to use characters, so I'm fine with them just saying that he's looking for Con or something and therefore can't be there, but it's a bit weird he isn't even mentioned.
Damian is on the Lazarus island, and Jason is leading Task force, but as Tim isn't doing anything in universe, they can at least suggest he's doing something.

Dick and Babs are the most senior people there (at least of the core Batfamily) so you would expect them to take leadership roles. I don't think she's the de-facto leader, she's just doing what she does as Oracle.

I didn't even realize Dick was the token guy. I guess Tim is too busy dealing with his relationship/identity status.