January Detective Comics Event: Shadows of the Bat

[TheKryptonMan]

Dick and Babs are the most senior people there (at least of the core Batfamily) so you would expect them to take leadership roles. I don't think she's the de-facto leader, she's just doing what she does as Oracle.

I didn't even realize Dick was the token guy. I guess Tim is too busy dealing with his relationship/identity status.

So far this Detective weekly story is like a Birds of Prey but with Dick also on the team.
I do think that Dick & Babs are like Co-Leaders though.
If this was just a Birds of Prey storyline it wouldn't sell as well , but having Dick in it is smart.
So far it's been good and something is going on with Helena, has she developed like a new power or something ?

[millernumber1]

So far this Detective weekly story is like a Birds of Prey but with Dick also on the team.
I do think that Dick & Babs are like Co-Leaders though.
If this was just a Birds of Prey storyline it wouldn't sell as well , but having Dick in it is smart.
So far it's been good and something is going on with Helena, has she developed like a new power or something ?

She was attacked by the Parasite in the first arc of Tamaki's Tec, and now is able to see some violent crimes as visions - not quite sure if it's before or during. But it's left her very shaken.

[Restingvoice]

The "Helena is like Batman" thing goes all the way back to Grayson in Dick's mind, and that was also in a romantic context. Weird, but a traditional type of weirdness for Dick.

It went even older than that, with a different Grayson

It was initially Devin Grayson's idea when she wrote their relationship in the 2000. It was also Babs that hinted on it in the comic, but Idk if it's ever said directly like when King wrote it.

King and Seeley consulted with Devin for Grayson, and even related personally since, I forgot who, King or Seeley, but their lover is also similar to their parent

It was in an interview sometimes back. Don't remember exactly when or where

[JackJustMetMartin]

I'm not sure how I feel about Oracle being the de-facto leader of the batfamily here.

Also, is it a lineup of the batfamily women plus Nightwing? Where is Tim? I'm not a fan of forcing writers to use characters, so I'm fine with them just saying that he's looking for Con or something and therefore can't be there, but it's a bit weird he isn't even mentioned.
Damian is on the Lazarus island, and Jason is leading Task force, but as Tim isn't doing anything in universe, they can at least suggest he's doing something.

Tim not being used is so odd. He's in nothing right now, and he could have taken Dick's place.

[MajorHoy]

Tim not being used is so odd. He's in nothing right now, and he could have taken Dick's place.

Not when it comes to DC Comics for the past 10 years+.

It sometimes seems like Tim has generally been relegated to an almost useless status ever since the start of the New 52.

[Godlike13]

Tim is useless. What role would he serve here, he lacks the seniority and disposition that Dick has so they couldn't just have had him take Dick place.

[Lal]

Tim not being used is so odd. He's in nothing right now, and he could have taken Dick's place.

Dick is the most experienced of the batfamily and he cares deeply about Gotham. Of course he's going to be there when Bruce is out of town to help.
Also, it seems that only the grownups in the batfamily infiltrated the tower. Tim still looks like a teen. He couldn't have taken Dick's place. Not in the leadership/ seniority aspect and not even physically as one of those investigating the tower.
Maybe he could have helped the Batgirls investigate outside the tower, but currently it's not a major plot in the story.

[TheKryptonMan]

She was attacked by the Parasite in the first arc of Tamaki's Tec, and now is able to see some violent crimes as visions - not quite sure if it's before or during. But it's left her very shaken.

Thanks for the reminder about the Parasite. I have been getting Tec since Tamaki has been writing it, but somehow forgot that part. At first I was going to skip this weekly arc since it's $5 a week, but it's been good so far !!!

[Fergus]

Not when it comes to DC Comics for the past 10 years+.

It sometimes seems like Tim has generally been relegated to an almost useless status ever since the start of the New 52.

That is not true. The new 52 Tim had 2 on goings and had a prominent role in a weekly series.
Rebirth he had a lead role in tec before moving on to co lead in Young Justice.

DC has gone out of their way to ensure that Tim Drake is always in use. Pumping energy and dedicating resources to ensure the character remains a headliner despite many failures.

Since he was created this is the first time Tim Drake hasn't had a regular home in a high profile title.

Heck after YJ by bendis ended in nov 2020 and Tim moved on to a regular spot on Taylor's Nightwing, The 2 issue Robin eternal and Urban Legends.

To say Tim isn't being used or that he has been Neglected in the past 10 years is false.

[Fergus]

Tim is useless. What role would he serve here, he lacks the seniority and disposition that Dick has so they couldn't just have had him take Dick place.

This. Dick's role in this story couldn't have gone to Tim. I know there's a tendency to view ex-Robins as interchangeable.

They are not.

[Frontier]

Tim is useless. What role would he serve here, he lacks the seniority and disposition that Dick has so they couldn't just have had him take Dick place.

Tim is only useless if he's just there to fill up space and the writer doesn't care about him.

(Also I'm guessing any talk Tim and Steph have about Bernard will be off-panel).

That is not true. The new 52 Tim had 2 on goings and had a prominent role in a weekly series.
Rebirth he had a lead role in tec before moving on to co lead in Young Justice.

DC has gone out of their way to ensure that Tim Drake is always in use. Pumping energy and dedicating resources to ensure the character remains a headliner despite many failures.

Since he was created this is the first time Tim Drake hasn't had a regular home in a high profile title.

Heck after YJ by bendis ended in nov 2020 and Tim moved on to a regular spot on Taylor's Nightwing, The 2 issue Robin eternal and Urban Legends.

To say Tim isn't being used or that he has been Neglected in the past 10 years is false.

One could make a good case for lack of quality writing though.

[Lal]

One could make a good case for lack of quality writing though.

It wasn't for lack of trying. Both Bendis and Tynion are huge Tim fans. Taylor is a huge Tim fan. It wasn't like he was forced on writers and they wrote him halfheartedly.
When even his greatest fans are struggling to make Tim shine or stand out, the character is in a bigger problem than just lazy writing.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

It wasn't for lack of trying. Both Bendis and Tynion are huge Tim fans. Taylor is a huge Tim fan. It wasn't like he was forced on writers and they wrote him halfheartedly.
When even his greatest fans are struggling to make Tim shine or stand out, the character is in a bigger problem than just lazy writing.

A lot of writers claim to be Tim Drake fans. Dixon has also gone on record saying his favorite robin is Tim drake and same for Tim Seeley who said the same. I think the main problem is that Tim Drake and Dick grasyon are too similar of characters that if they push Tim more, it negates the need for Dick to be part of the batfamily. So Becuase Dick is the one with the solo, he gets the push more. But if they wanted, DC could probably switch out Tim and Dick and give Tim a bigger push and all of these writers could write Tim more but at the expense of Dick being a bigger character

[Rac7d*]

A lot of writers claim to be Tim Drake fans. Dixon has also gone on record saying his favorite robin is Tim drake and same for Tim Seeley who said the same. I think the main problem is that Tim Drake and Dick grasyon are too similar of characters that if they push Tim more, it negates the need for Dick to be part of the batfamily. So Becuase Dick is the one with the solo, he gets the push more. But if they wanted, DC could probably switch out Tim and Dick and give Tim a bigger push and all of these writers could write Tim more but at the expense of Dick being a bigger character

Tim is the one without need. In the batfamily his original purpose and role has both been passed on and expired. He is in a what to do next phase for more then a decade. Even in the upcoming films, I can’t see a reason for Tim , since their is no Bat-man and Tim skillet overlaps too much with Babs.

[Lal]

A lot of writers claim to be Tim Drake fans. Dixon has also gone on record saying his favorite robin is Tim drake and same for Tim Seeley who said the same. I think the main problem is that Tim Drake and Dick grasyon are too similar of characters that if they push Tim more, it negates the need for Dick to be part of the batfamily. So Becuase Dick is the one with the solo, he gets the push more. But if they wanted, DC could probably switch out Tim and Dick and give Tim a bigger push and all of these writers could write Tim more but at the expense of Dick being a bigger character

I disagree. Tim's main problem is that he has almost no traits to differentiate himself from Dick, while Dick does have traits that differentiate him from Tim.
Dick is the more experienced, the more well known, better connected to the entire DCU characters, the leader. The mentor.
Tim can't push Dick out of the batfamily because Dick was the first and is one of the pillars of the family. Dick is the closest to all the Robins, to Babs, to Bruce. He's Tim and Damian's mentor. He's the one who has has seen it all and experienced it all. Who lead the batfamily, the Titans, outsiders, JL, was Batman. He did it all.
Tim, on the other hand, is still a teen.
Dick isn't in this event because he has a solo. He's in this event and has a solo because he's one of DC's most successful and well loved characters. Tim's problem is that as long as he won't have clear characterizations to set him apart from Dick or the other Robins, he won't be able to really shine.