January Detective Comics Event: Shadows of the Bat

[Lal]

But is it worth the money?

And when does it finally wrap-up?

It's a good question.
I feel it's too focuses on Huntress, which is on okay character but after last issue in which she was compared to Batman while all the other batfamily are supposedly just in his shadow it just went too far for me.
The batfamily are also not portrayed as the best detectives here. Instead of showing their strengths and how capable they are, most of the time they are three steps behind.
When you take into consideration that Dick was once Batman, this level of incompetence is a bit weird.

I really want to love and support a book featuring a batfamily event, and despite all those things it's not bad. But it's not very good either.

[millernumber1]

Hence all the yelling.

"WHY ISN'T TIM NOT IN THE STORY"

"TIM SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED IN PLACE OF DICK WHO ALREADY HAS A SOLO"

and so forth. It's aggravating.

Weird. I love Tim, but I like how they're using Dick in the story. His connections to Babs and Helena are a plus, and he often falls into the leader role when Bruce is absent. Seems reasonable to me.

I do wish DC would make their plans for Tim clear, since they keep teasing them. But I'm not expecting him to be in every story. Though since the Batgirls are involved, it would make sense if he popped in every now and then on big missions like fighting the Party Crashers.

It's a good question.
I feel it's too focuses on Huntress, which is on okay character but after last issue in which she was compared to Batman while all the other batfamily are supposedly just in his shadow it just went too far for me.
The batfamily are also not portrayed as the best detectives here. Instead of showing their strengths and how capable they are, most of the time they are three steps behind.
When you take into consideration that Dick was once Batman, this level of incompetence is a bit weird.

I really want to love and support a book featuring a batfamily event, and despite all those things it's not bad. But it's not very good either.

Maybe because I'm a huge Huntress fan, but I feel like she's not really the star of this run. I'd say Batwoman, Chase Meridian, and Nightwing have bigger roles, though her role is definitely growing.

I also don't really see the Batfamily as being incompetent - I guess they COULD have broken into the top floor Dr. Ocean office earlier, but that wouldn't have meant they succeeded, given what they would find there. What else do you think they should have done that they haven't done so far?

[thwhtGuardian]

Don't understand what all the yelling about Tim is about. He's not even in this story.



It is definitely worth checking out! At this stage, I might recommend the trades, though. I'm really loving it.



Absolutely! It's a very tense, Die-Hard-structured Batfamily story with a really nicely written sense of tension, really strong art so far by Reis and Raynor, and really cool backups. It is slower paced than the monthly schedule, but that's kind of the point of a weekly title - it gives you ability to explore the details and setups and payoff structure, rather than trying to pack more of a punch per issue. I got back into DC Comics with Batman Eternal, so I really grew to like the weekly format.

It's not tense at all though, because it never took the time to make the audience care about what is happening. The structure of showing the tower going down before we ever saw it "work" just killed any sense of tension that could have been built.

[millernumber1]

It's not tense at all though, because it never took the time to make the audience care about what is happening. The structure of showing the tower going down before we ever saw it "work" just killed any sense of tension that could have been built.

I dunno - that's a fairly common television technique. Worked pretty well for me. Seeing things going "well" knowing it's going to end in flames is tense for me.

[Lal]

I also don't really see the Batfamily as being incompetent - I guess they COULD have broken into the top floor Dr. Ocean office earlier, but that wouldn't have meant they succeeded, given what they would find there. What else do you think they should have done that they haven't done so far?

There are just too many angles the batfamily are either missing or neglecting. It's a big operation with connections to the party crushers, penguin, with a trail of fake evidence and credentials for Dr. Wear and Ocean. It's not just missing psycho-pirate, it's just staying behind all these connections and developments.

It quite seems like Huntress is the heart of this story so far. Batwoman didn't appear much in the last 2 issues. Nightwing barely appeared in other issue and his POV was almost entirely dedicated to Helena. She appears both as someone who actually tries to help herself and deal with her visions, and one of the detectives trying to figure out the tower.
The fight scene at the end of last issue even gave her some badass moments.

I still wonder how Ana recognized Dick. And why she recognizing him as Nightwing (and not, let's say, millionaire philanthropist). It came out of nowhere. I wonder if they'll address it.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://www-cbr-com.cdn.ampproject.o...i-interview%2F

Mariko Tamaki did a new interview.

[millernumber1]

https://www-cbr-com.cdn.ampproject.o...i-interview%2F

Mariko Tamaki did a new interview.

Nice, thanks for sharing! I personally wish they'd save these interviews till the end so they can go deeply into the spoilers, but eh. I know how marketing is supposed to work.

There are just too many angles the batfamily are either missing or neglecting. It's a big operation with connections to the party crushers, penguin, with a trail of fake evidence and credentials for Dr. Wear and Ocean. It's not just missing psycho-pirate, it's just staying behind all these connections and developments.

It quite seems like Huntress is the heart of this story so far. Batwoman didn't appear much in the last 2 issues. Nightwing barely appeared in other issue and his POV was almost entirely dedicated to Helena. She appears both as someone who actually tries to help herself and deal with her visions, and one of the detectives trying to figure out the tower.
The fight scene at the end of last issue even gave her some badass moments.

I still wonder how Ana recognized Dick. And why she recognizing him as Nightwing (and not, let's say, millionaire philanthropist). It came out of nowhere. I wonder if they'll address it.

Hmm. I still don't see the concrete stuff the Batfamily should be doing that makes them look so dumb. They ARE chasing down the Party Crashers. They're not up on Penguin currently, but that's partly because Penguin isn't causing noticeable disturbances with people who are likely to be transparent to the Batfamily. Given Psycho Pirate's powers, I'm mostly just gonna say "his credentials are perfect because mind control".

I dunno. I do think Huntress is getting more of a focus now, and am quite pleased, as she's my second favorite character in comics, but there's still a very large ensemble component - more of a rotating focus, than necessarily placing Huntress as the "heart". There's a certain amount of semantic uncertainty I have in how you're framing your argument, though.

I say Ana recognized Dick's butt and his flips. A combination of Babs from Burnside and Tim from A Lonely Place of Dying.

[CPSparkles]

Nice, thanks for sharing! I personally wish they'd save these interviews till the end so they can go deeply into the spoilers, but eh. I know how marketing is supposed to work.



Hmm. I still don't see the concrete stuff the Batfamily should be doing that makes them look so dumb. They ARE chasing down the Party Crashers. They're not up on Penguin currently, but that's partly because Penguin isn't causing noticeable disturbances with people who are likely to be transparent to the Batfamily. Given Psycho Pirate's powers, I'm mostly just gonna say "his credentials are perfect because mind control".

I dunno. I do think Huntress is getting more of a focus now, and am quite pleased, as she's my second favorite character in comics, but there's still a very large ensemble component - more of a rotating focus, than necessarily placing Huntress as the "heart". There's a certain amount of semantic uncertainty I have in how you're framing your argument, though.

I say Ana recognized Dick's butt and his flips. A combination of Babs from Burnside and Tim from A Lonely Place of Dying.

Lol!
Two things:

- how much into butts does a person have to be to recognise a person by their butt.

- I think it's time Dick stopped using the special Flying Grayson's somersault since it's recognisable.

[millernumber1]

Lol!
Two things:

- how much into butts does a person have to be to recognise a person by their butt.

- I think it's time Dick stopped using the special Flying Grayson's somersault since it's recognisable.

Dunno, but in Batgirl Annual #3 and then Grayson #12, that's exactly what Babs did.

Nah, only Tim and apparently Ana Vulsion recognize it.

[thwhtGuardian]

I dunno - that's a fairly common television technique. Worked pretty well for me. Seeing things going "well" knowing it's going to end in flames is tense for me.

But we haven't seen things go well, that's the thing. If we were never invested in the tower working in the first place its destruction has zero impact.

[millernumber1]

But we haven't seen things go well, that's the thing. If we were never invested in the tower working in the first place its destruction has zero impact.

To each their own. I think it's pretty classic writing technique, and doesn't sap the tension at all for me.

[thwhtGuardian]

To each their own. I think it's pretty classic writing technique, and doesn't sap the tension at all for me.

It can be a classic technique and not be executed well, and that's definitely the case here. It's like the "tease" that the justice league is going to "die" in the next event. We know they're not going anywhere so there is zero shock and with out a sense of shock the story has no purpose and it's the same here how many times have we been told this time Arkham will be better and people will actually be rehabilitated only to have it blown to hell?

The answer?

Too many times. There's no shock anymore, no feeling that it matters. It's the same with all these events showing Gotham in flames and Batman broken by the bad guy...we've seen that dozens of times now and you can't go back to that well every other year.

[millernumber1]

It can be a classic technique and not be executed well, and that's definitely the case here. It's like the "tease" that the justice league is going to "die" in the next event. We know they're not going anywhere so there is zero shock and with out a sense of shock the story has no purpose and it's the same here how many times have we been told this time Arkham will be better and people will actually be rehabilitated only to have it blown to hell?

The answer?

Too many times. There's no shock anymore, no feeling that it matters. It's the same with all these events showing Gotham in flames and Batman broken by the bad guy...we've seen that dozens of times now and you can't go back to that well every other year.

It's definitely the case for you. It's definitely not the case for me, and many of the people I talk to, who have been enjoying and promoting Tec by Tamaki, including this arc, very enthusiastically.

The tension is not derived from the idea that the villains are going to progress - it's derived from the hopes of the characters that they can find healing, and the knowledge that they won't. It's about whether you are able to enter into the hopes and fears of the characters. If you aren't, then there's a failure of connection between the writing and the reading. That is a more subjective thing to judge than "definitely a failure".

If it's not for you, it's not for you. I've presented both my own reactions, which are equally as valid as yours, as well as my arguments for why I think it's well executed. You and other readers and potential readers can judge from what we've both said as to whether they'd enjoy it or not. But I see no point in simply repeating "It's a failure" "it's a success".

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Because of the backups, I thought of Huntress as being the secondary protagonist of Tamaki's run. But I wouldn't say she's the protagonist of this crossover. It has an ensemble feel to it.

[thwhtGuardian]

It's definitely the case for you. It's definitely not the case for me, and many of the people I talk to, who have been enjoying and promoting Tec by Tamaki, including this arc, very enthusiastically.

The tension is not derived from the idea that the villains are going to progress - it's derived from the hopes of the characters that they can find healing, and the knowledge that they won't. It's about whether you are able to enter into the hopes and fears of the characters. If you aren't, then there's a failure of connection between the writing and the reading. That is a more subjective thing to judge than "definitely a failure".

If it's not for you, it's not for you. I've presented both my own reactions, which are equally as valid as yours, as well as my arguments for why I think it's well executed. You and other readers and potential readers can judge from what we've both said as to whether they'd enjoy it or not. But I see no point in simply repeating "It's a failure" "it's a success".

Tamaki really does nail the character moments, it's why I was so excited about her taking over the book and what made me love her earlier entries, and if this were just a normal three or four part story those character moments would be enough. In a regular monthly story you can excuse short comings in over used plots and cliche action set pieces if the characters voices are dialed in...but when you make it a 12 issue epic the expectations are necessarily higher. For that kind of investment of time and with the price tag of 66.87 I expect the story to be character defining.

Can you seriously say that Shadow of the Bat is going to be a book that's talked about and considered recommend reading in five-ten years time? Because that's the expectation for a story that takes that many issues to be told.