January Detective Comics Event: Shadows of the Bat

[millernumber1]

Tamaki really does nail the character moments, it's why I was so excited about her taking over the book and what made me love her earlier entries, and if this were just a normal three or four part story those character moments would be enough. In a regular monthly story you can excuse short comings in over used plots and cliche action set pieces if the characters voices are dialed in...but when you make it a 12 issue epic the expectations are necessarily higher. For that kind of investment of time and with the price tag of 66.87 I expect the story to be character defining.

Can you seriously say that Shadow of the Bat is going to be a book that's talked about and considered recommend reading in five-ten years time? Because that's the expectation for a story that takes that many issues to be told.

Yes, I can.

But I also seriously recommend Batman Eternal and parts of Batman and Robin Eternal. I like weekly types of stories, and have different expectations for them.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I'm enjoying this even if it does lack Batman. I liked pre-New 52 Huntress and Dick and the Batgirls are always favorites. Though everyone has their own books except Huntress and Batwoman. Would have been nice maybe include Tim, Jean Paul, or Duke. The art is gorgeous though, Reis is doing a awesome job with it.

[thwhtGuardian]

Yes, I can.

But I also seriously recommend Batman Eternal and parts of Batman and Robin Eternal. I like weekly types of stories, and have different expectations for them.

There's a difference between liking something and knowing that it's not objectively that great and won't stand the test of time. I like the Ultimates, but I fully understand why it's not a top selling comic anymore and why people don't list it in a top ten avengers story ever told list. Meanwhile books like Year One, Killing Joke, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Prey,Hush, Knightfall, Under the Hood, Batman and Son and even books like Night of the Owls are still in print and are considered classics.

Shadows of the Bat isn't making that list, and if a writer is going to write a story that takes that long to tell and cost that much per issue it has to feel like an instant classic each and every issue.

[millernumber1]

There's a difference between liking something and knowing that it's not objectively that great and won't stand the test of time. I like the Ultimates, but I fully understand why it's not a top selling comic anymore and why people don't list it in a top ten avengers story ever told list. Meanwhile books like Year One, Killing Joke, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Prey,Hush, Knightfall, Under the Hood, Batman and Son and even books like Night of the Owls are still in print and are considered classics.

Shadows of the Bat isn't making that list, and if a writer is going to write a story that takes that long to tell and cost that much per issue it has to feel like an instant classic each and every issue.

I mean, I wouldn't recommend over half of the list you just put out there. Saying that a current storyline isn't going to be the most popular and lasting is irrelevant - that's well over 99% of comics. You need to figure out a standard that doesn't mean "this story has to be as good or better than 0.1% of comics" to have any kind of meaningful discussion. If all you want to do is say "I don't like it", that's fine - no one is making you like it. I'm simply saying that I think you're being completely unreasonable.

[thwhtGuardian]

I mean, I wouldn't recommend over half of the list you just put out there. Saying that a current storyline isn't going to be the most popular and lasting is irrelevant - that's well over 99% of comics. You need to figure out a standard that doesn't mean "this story has to be as good or better than 0.1% of comics" to have any kind of meaningful discussion. If all you want to do is say "I don't like it", that's fine - no one is making you like it. I'm simply saying that I think you're being completely unreasonable.

That you wouldn't recommend isn't relevant, it's what most people would and what continues to stay in print and sell years after the fact. And it's not just saying a current storyline won't be lasting, like I said if this were just a regular current book told in three or four parts the expectations would be different...but when you make it a huge twelve part story the bar is going to by higher and that isn't unreasonable.

As I said before it's totally okay to like books that don't clear that hurdle, but it's good to be self aware and realize that it definitely misses the mark and why it wouldn't have mass appeal.

[millernumber1]

That you wouldn't recommend isn't relevant, it's what most people would and what continues to stay in print and sell years after the fact. And it's not just saying a current storyline won't be lasting, like I said if this were just a regular current book told in three or four parts the expectations would be different...but when you make it a huge twelve part story the bar is going to by higher and that isn't unreasonable.

As I said before it's totally okay to like books that don't clear that hurdle, but it's good to be self aware and realize that it definitely misses the mark and why it wouldn't have mass appeal.

Well, I'm completely and utterly done with this conversation. I would really prefer if you stopped responding, as all you have to say is "You like sucky books."

[Hypo]

Detective Comics #1052 Preview
Writer: Mariko Tamaki
Artist: Max Raynor
Backup Writer: Matthew Rosenberg
Backup Artist: Fernando Blanco

[Frontier]

When Chase Meridian discovered what Gotham is really like.

Well, I guess she isn't going to hook up with Bruce, so may as well make her into women. Although is she Bi?

So is the person who tried to kill her someone significant? I mean, just wearing a mask doesn't narrow it down...

[TheKryptonMan]

That you wouldn't recommend isn't relevant, it's what most people would and what continues to stay in print and sell years after the fact. And it's not just saying a current storyline won't be lasting, like I said if this were just a regular current book told in three or four parts the expectations would be different...but when you make it a huge twelve part story the bar is going to by higher and that isn't unreasonable.

As I said before it's totally okay to like books that don't clear that hurdle, but it's good to be self aware and realize that it definitely misses the mark and why it wouldn't have mass appeal.

Interesting take on this Tec event . I'm enjoying this weekly format , but 2 things that I would have preferred . No back up story ( I'm not sure what the point of the back up is yet ) , and just 3.99 each issue with 22 pages of story.
Initially I wasn't even going to get this , but I'm getting it mostly for Oracle , and Nightwing being in it. It seems that Helena is very involved, so she's actually been interesting and Batwoman to some degree. Also Chase is interesting too. If Babs & Dick were not in it, I would have skipped it.

[Lal]

Interesting take on this Tec event . I'm enjoying this weekly format , but 2 things that I would have preferred . No back up story ( I'm not sure what the point of the back up is yet ) , and just 3.99 each issue with 22 pages of story.
Initially I wasn't even going to get this , but I'm getting it mostly for Oracle , and Nightwing being in it. It seems that Helena is very involved, so she's actually been interesting and Batwoman to some degree. Also Chase is interesting too. If Babs & Dick were not in it, I would have skipped it.

I'm pulling the book as I like the idea of a batfamily event, but also because it features Nightwing. If he wasn't there I'd probably just have trade-wait it.
Overall the event isn't bad, and I think it would read even better as a trade.
It's actually the first time I'm reading a weekly event, and it's a nice concept so far.

It seems the book is also doing okay in terms of sales, even though there's no Batman in the main story -
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-january-2022

[Rac7d*]

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Did Luke stay in Gotham?
And does this mean black canary survives ?

[TheKryptonMan]

I'm pulling the book as I like the idea of a batfamily event, but also because it features Nightwing. If he wasn't there I'd probably just have trade-wait it.
Overall the event isn't bad, and I think it would read even better as a trade.
It's actually the first time I'm reading a weekly event, and it's a nice concept so far.

It seems the book is also doing okay in terms of sales, even though there's no Batman in the main story -
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-january-2022

Hey , thanks for the link to icv2 , lots of times I forget about them.
I do miss the days when everything was distributed by Diamond and they would release a monthly roundup of how each book did.
I guess that was one good thing about having a monopoly , lol ��
I do think that it'll read better as a trade, or when it's over just read the whole thing straight through.
I also wouldn't be getting it, if Nightwing wasn't in it. For me that's the draw, and Oracle too.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

0E06B54A-FA58-4626-B3F9-399DC9A69B9D.jpg

Did Luke stay in Gotham?
And does this mean black canary survives ?

He didn't pop up in the IAB preview. So I'm assuming he stays behind to manage Wayne Industries while Lucius is on a sabbatical.

I wouldn't mind if Jace or Duke was in the event. They could explore the Tower from another angle. Lucius and Duke's parents were victims of Joker gas.

I'm surprised Luke isn't involved. He was apart of the Batfamily since Tynion's run.

[Rac7d*]

He didn't pop up in the IAB preview. So I'm assuming he stays behind to manage Wayne Industries while Lucius is on a sabbatical.

I wouldn't mind if Jace or Duke was in the event. They could explore the Tower from another angle. Lucius and Duke's parents were victims of Joker gas.

I'm surprised Luke isn't involved. He was apart of the Batfamily since Tynion's run.

He’s right there

[exile001]

I am still loving this and think it's the best crossover in a long time. No bullshit, we all know Arkham Tower was going to fall, so it's all CHARACTER. Something that's been lacking for a long time.

Throwing Chase Meridian into this was a decent red herring so far (because why use a relatively obscure character if she's not the big bad?).

I love the use of Psycho Pirate as a general catch-all to get Gotham's worst under control because in makes sense in universe.

I realise that some people are always going to prefer a "Hush" or, god forbid, a "Joker War" to something with actual depth of character, a deliberate pace and strong storytelling but this is ticking all my boxes as a classic and evergreen Batman story.