Sinister War 3

[Spiderfan001]

You are exactly right. Most people understand that it was Quesada and to a lesser extent Slott, Alonso and Wacker responsible for no Peter and MJ. Well until RYV written by? Dan Slott. The man-child followed by the snarky comments and certain bad stories ( like Silk and Queen Pin) were my problem with Slott ( even more then MJ).

RYV was good but he didn't just keep it at them being seperate. He disrespected their relationship, under Slott MJ hated being with him, much preffered Tony and creepy sub-text like him cradling her was awful.She was less close to him in his own run.And made MJ date random dudes.
I don't consider any of it canon, it's way too OOC.

[NC_Yankee]

RYV was good but he didn't just keep it at them being seperate. He disrespected their relationship, under Slott MJ hated being with him, much preffered Tony and creepy sub-text like him cradling her was awful.She was less close to him in his own run.And made MJ date random dudes.
I don't consider any of it canon, it's way too OOC.

I saw a movie called “Just Write” with Sherlyn Fenn ( she used to be hot ), and there is a line in the movie where the main character Harold McMurphy ( Jeremy Plevin) says “He ( a scriptwriter) does not like women.” That can also be used to describe Dan Slott’s Amazing run ( obviously RYV was different). I cannot think of a good female character he wrote ( not just MJ and Felicia). Jackpot, Silk and even Aunt May not done well. Why? No idea. It just seemed that way to me: But as bad as most of Slott’s run was ( I gave him a grade of F), it does not let Spencer off the hook for the never ending Kindred story and the bad way Peter looks ( Pathetic Parker).

[BruceWayneJr.]

I've been waiting for the Slott debate, now that "the successor who couldn't possibly be worse" is finishing his run. And it's playing out exactly as I thought.

Dan Slott did great things on that book, but the fanbase always blamed him for One More Day and refused to look past it. Now, as with all things in art, the passage of time has allowed people to be more objective and their old biases are starting to slip away. Now you can compare the new guy to the old guy and realize that the old guy wasn't so bad after all.

I don't think the entirety of Slott's run was gold, but he never got the credit around here that he deserved.

[Huntsman Spider]

I've been waiting for the Slott debate, now that "the successor who couldn't possibly be worse" is finishing his run. And it's playing out exactly as I thought.

Dan Slott did great things on that book, but the fanbase always blamed him for One More Day and refused to look past it. Now, as with all things in art, the passage of time has allowed people to be more objective and their old biases are starting to slip away. Now you can compare the new guy to the old guy and realize that the old guy wasn't so bad after all.

I don't think the entirety of Slott's run was gold, but he never got the credit around here that he deserved.

Whatever else Slott might have been responsible for or done, he wasn't behind One More Day in the slightest. That was all Joe Quesada (and maybe Tom Brevoort, with his spiel about Spider-Man being about "youth" instead of "responsibility"). Slott was just the unlucky one who had to be the first to follow up writing Spider-Man after One More Day.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I've been waiting for the Slott debate, now that "the successor who couldn't possibly be worse" is finishing his run. And it's playing out exactly as I thought.

I don't entirely follow what you mean here. Could you clarify?

I don't think the entirety of Slott's run was gold, but he never got the credit around here that he deserved.

Is it so important that Slott get credit "around here"? I mean this is just one comics board among others, I am sure that there are corners on the internet where people are more positive about Slott and in general Slott's considered by virtue of longevity a writer to discuss. Critically well it's a fact that the shorter runs on Spider-Man (Lee-Ditko, Conway, Stern, Defalco) are generally seen as more consistent than the longer runs (Lee-Romita, Michelinie, JMS, Slott). So it's par for the course.

Slott's reputation has fallen also in part for his lackluster runs on Iron Man and Fantastic Four and certainly he's not popular among fandom after his lame Franklin Richards retcon.

[Malachi]

This issue didn't leave much of an impression. I think it would be a good example of what comics can't be when they cost 4,99.

That said there isn't anything particulary wrong with the actual writing inside the issue. Spencer still has a good handle on the characters.

Something Slott didnt' have. Spider-man is Peter Parker. Slott had troubles writing him and many other characters. It lacked depth, nuance and heart. It doesn't matter what highs he had or how long his run was. He still goes down as the guy who struggled with writing Peter, MJ, Felicia and Ben Reilly. Now Ben of course is more optional then the others but his Jackal stunt was just comics giving in to it's most destructive tendencies and embracing, far from prime time, soap opera.

[your_name_here]

I’ve been a big advocate of Spencer’s run. During Last Remains, I realised it was the next step of the larger whole.

I can’t imagine this is how Spencer originally wanted to wrap it up, especially not as fast, loosely paced as this. I’m disappointed. All the build up with Kindred etc, and we’ve got Spider-Man barely holding his own yet again. After Last Remains I was completely ready for Peters big comeback against Kindred, beating him morally AND physically. We still might get it, but I’m losing hope, unfortunately.

[Spiderfan001]

I’ve been a big advocate of Spencer’s run. During Last Remains, I realised it was the next step of the larger whole.

I can’t imagine this is how Spencer originally wanted to wrap it up, especially not as fast, loosely paced as this. I’m disappointed. All the build up with Kindred etc, and we’ve got Spider-Man barely holding his own yet again. After Last Remains I was completely ready for Peters big comeback against Kindred, beating him morally AND physically. We still might get it, but I’m losing hope, unfortunately.

He will fight Kindred physically again, we know that from art teases by Carlos Gomez.
Yeah, I think we missed some stuff but the ending will still be there.
That Ultra-size is gonna slap

[HypnoHustler]

I've been waiting for the Slott debate, now that "the successor who couldn't possibly be worse" is finishing his run. And it's playing out exactly as I thought.

Dan Slott did great things on that book, but the fanbase always blamed him for One More Day and refused to look past it.

No one holds him responsible for OMD. Or if they do, they’re ignorant. Most fans know that falls on JMS and Quesada. Some may blame him for keeping that status quo going, but most people blame him for the awful stories that happened under his watch like Alpha, Clone Conspiracy, Parker Industries era, “Queenpin”, man-child Peter, etc.

Now, as with all things in art, the passage of time has allowed people to be more objective and their old biases are starting to slip away. Now you can compare the new guy to the old guy and realize that the old guy wasn't so bad after all.

I don’t think anyone is saying he wasn’t that bad in retrospect. Some people are saying Spencer is as bad (something I disagree with), but no one is saying “I thought he was bad at the time, but in retrospect he was pretty good.”

[NC_Yankee]

No one holds him responsible for OMD. Or if they do, they’re ignorant. Most fans know that falls on JMS and Quesada. Some may blame him for keeping that status quo going, but most people blame him for the awful stories that happened under his watch like Alpha, Clone Conspiracy, Parker Industries era, “Queenpin”, man-child Peter, etc.



I don’t think anyone is saying he wasn’t that bad in retrospect. Some people are saying Spencer is as bad (something I disagree with), but no one is saying “I thought he was bad at the time, but in retrospect he was pretty good.”

I am certainly no Spencer fan. Why? I have been over and over this ( no need to rehash my complaints). But unless OMD is erased, then his run has to be regarded as a failure. That said, Spencer’s failures are certainly no praise of Dan Slott ( although Slott did offer more humor. Something terribly lacking in Spencer’s run). That said, I think it is fair to say that Slott’s misses and meh stories are worse then Spencer’s, but Slott’s few good stories ( Especially Spider Island and RYV) are better then anything Spencer did.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

No one holds him responsible for OMD. Or if they do, they’re ignorant. Most fans know that falls on JMS and Quesada.

Slott gets associated with OMD because Marvel promoters, and Quesada himself at one point, and others insist that his "run" somehow justifies OMD and features stories that supposedly couldn't have happened without the marriage and so on, are somehow better than it. Slott himself never quite said the same thing and always insisted that he's happy to write Spider-Man married or unmarried but unintentionally and indirectly, he's essentially used to justify terrible storytelling and bad editorial decisions.

I think that's why Slott's run continues to be polarizing and most likely will always be, until unless the marriage is restored at which point people can maybe return to Slott's run with cooler heads.

Some may blame him for keeping that status quo going, but most people blame him for the awful stories that happened under his watch like Alpha, Clone Conspiracy, Parker Industries era, “Queenpin”, man-child Peter, etc.

Dan Slott wrote more issues of 616 Spider-Man than any writer before so it follows that he wrote more bad issues of Spider-Man than any other writer before as well, as per Sturgeon's Law. The question is when Slott was at his best how consistent was he? You look at the Lee-Ditko era, no bad issues from AF#15 to ASM#38 (and the Annuals). Roger Stern from ASM#224 to ASM#252 (i.e 28 issues), not one bad issue. The entire JMS/JRJR run - 38 issues...no bad issues there.

There's also the fact that some 40 issues of Slott's run was co-written by Christos Gage including sections of Superior Spider-Man and so on. Fill-ins and co-plotting and co-writing has happened before of course but after Stan Lee left, no other writer has had it quite to the same extent as Slott's run. So it's not entirely fair to regard Slott's run as entirely his if a quarter of it was co-written.

I don’t think anyone is saying he wasn’t that bad in retrospect. Some people are saying Spencer is as bad (something I disagree with), but no one is saying “I thought he was bad at the time, but in retrospect he was pretty good.”

I think Spencer's run will stand for its first 30 issues from ASM#1-29, it gets more inconsistent after that. Sins Rising has a wonky buildup but then an all-time great issue with ASM#50 where Spider-Man and Goblin team up for the first time ever. From LAST REMAINS onwards the run gets super-serialized where each issue is tied to a longer story and so on, and much of that depends on the final issues.

I feel Spencer's run will maybe rank alongside Tom Defalco's on the Spider-Man pantheon, whereas Slott will maybe be on par with or slightly above Marv Wolfman.

[Spiderfan001]

I am certainly no Spencer fan. Why? I have been over and over this ( no need to rehash my complaints). But unless OMD is erased, then his run has to be regarded as a failure. That said, Spencer’s failures are certainly no praise of Dan Slott ( although Slott did offer more humor. Something terribly lacking in Spencer’s run). That said, I think it is fair to say that Slott’s misses and meh stories are worse then Spencer’s, but Slott’s few good stories ( Especially Spider Island and RYV) are better then anything Spencer did.

Slott's humor was horrible for the most part.He has a few good ones but for a decade of Spidey comics he had a terrible and immature sense of humor.
Spencer bringing back MJ and Peter is better than RYV fundamentally because it's canon and it'll last.
Spider-Island was good.So was hunted and Sins Rising.
And OMD will never be erased, it has to be addressed and they need to get married.
Also even if Spencer didn't accomplish anything, it's still better than ruining the character like Slott did.

[Frontier]

Slott had his good moments of humor...although I feel like people have critiqued Spencer for a lack of quips, although maybe that's because Spidey is usually getting beat up and internal narrating with melodrama rather than cracking jokes.

[NC_Yankee]

Slott's humor was horrible for the most part.He has a few good ones but for a decade of Spidey comics he had a terrible and immature sense of humor.
Spencer bringing back MJ and Peter is better than RYV fundamentally because it's canon and it'll last.
Spider-Island was good.So was hunted and Sins Rising.
And OMD will never be erased, it has to be addressed and they need to get married.
Also even if Spencer didn't accomplish anything,, it's still better than ruining the character like Slott did.

I really disagree 100% about OMD. Why? If OMD is not erased then Vanderbilt has a better chance of winning a National Championship in football then the marriage has in coming back to 616. As for Slott ruining characters, I agree 100% that he did that to Felicia and that was 100% all on his own. I also despised how he treated MJ ( RYV excluded). But as far as Peter is concerned you can go back to JMS with his WTF stories The Other and OMD ( add editorial in the guilt department on that one ( very much like Sins Past)). As for Peter he is NOT fixed. No steady job, no degree, having Boomerang as a roommate, his soul is still in Hell, still getting his ass kicked almost every single issue, having to get preached to by the likes of Harry Osborn. As far as Osborn/Kindred is concerned, even guys JJJ who preach against how bad Spider-Man is, accomplished more in life then Harry Osborn. I will add losing his quips and last but not certainly least: Being saved like a “Damsel In Distress” ps. I certainly hope that the next step is NOT Felicia ending up saving Peter from the “Big Bad Wolf” oops Kindred.

[Ursalink]

OK, I think I talk for every Spider-Fan here when I say they have really crossed the line this time; both in terms of cruelty and in non-sense!

I always hated the concept of the Sinister Six because it reminds me how bullies work in high school, in a numerous pack to attack one single target. (I still have scars and black and blues from those hellish days). But this is too much! How seriously can they expect we like a story where a literal army is going relentlessly for Spider-Man's head? How is it possible they don't give him back up?! The only advantage for Spidey here is the fact that, with so many Sinisters, they easily waste time fighting each other and Spidey has a chance to escape. And now they add Morlun to a group too, as if he alone wasn't bad enough?

The focus they make, however, in some of the villains (Doc Ock, Boomerang, female Beetle and Mysterio) seems to indicate, however, they MIGHT actually turn to help Spidey somehow. I think Otto, Boomerang and Mysterio own Spidey this at least.