What was the Joker/Harley relationship like in the beginning in terms of abuse?

[Gripstir]

Like when they are portrayed now it’s obviously fully abusive type. But I’m trying to understand how they were written around the time she was introduced into the comic after the tv show.

Like obviously it’s Joker so there was always some level of evil. But I have a hard time believing that their romance got soooo big of it wasn’t written differently than it is being written now. I have to feel the reason they were so popular was the us against the world type mentality. It’s hard to seperate character from writer but I’m curious if you guys have any insights (or better yet comic panels) that you feel best illustrates their overall vibe in like the 90s or 2000s when Joker/Harley mania was huge in pop culture

[Frontier]

It was mostly him manipulating her and letting her take the fall or get the brunt of Batman's attention so he could get away, with a hard slap when they really wanted to show how bad Joker was.

[Gripstir]

It was mostly him manipulating her and letting her take the fall or get the brunt of Batman's attention so he could get away, with a hard slap when they really wanted to show how bad Joker was.

So I guess I’m asking why were they so shipped before? There were so many girls who loved role playing or cosplaying with their bfs as Harley and joker

[Micael]

So I guess I’m asking why were they so shipped before? There were so many girls who loved role playing or cosplaying with their bfs as Harley and joker

Visually they look really great together and most of the people cosplaying as them are not concerned with the flaws of the relationship in fact I would argue it makes it more "interesting" to them.

[SecretWarrior]

Harley got big because her quirky/bubbly personality is relatable to some and attractive to others. There's no other female character I can think of like her.

The fact that she was in a bad relationship also makes her relatable to some.

Also, while her relationship with Joker is no doubt abusive, some people like roleplaying in sub/dom roles, even if it promotes or unintentionally endorses a toxic extreme. I mean, just look at how big 50 Shades of Grey got.

[Darkspellmaster]

So I guess I’m asking why were they so shipped before? There were so many girls who loved role playing or cosplaying with their bfs as Harley and joker

Some like the dynamic of badboy only lone girl can understand and can fix them.Visually they tick a lot of boxes for people in regard to sexy. Its like why cosplayers like cosplaying characters like prince Dimande and Sailormoon. Characters like heroic beings are dull to them for some reason.

[Micael]

I think they were hilarious together in the animated series, fantastic chemistry. The more modern representation of the character where joker is really violent towards her and they have 0 humor in their dynamic is very bland and I don't understand how someone could find that interesting. TBF I think their relationship has suffered a lot of revisions over the years and it's almost nothing how it was initially.

[Gripstir]

Harley got big because her quirky/bubbly personality is relatable to some and attractive to others. There's no other female character I can think of like her.

The fact that she was in a bad relationship also makes her relatable to some.

Also, while her relationship with Joker is no doubt abusive, some people like roleplaying in sub/dom roles, even if it promotes or unintentionally endorses a toxic extreme. I mean, just look at how big 50 Shades of Grey got.

I mean nothing inherently sexual about their relationship. I remember having a big crush on Harley but I didn’t even think about them as a couple. I just liked her

[Gripstir]

Visually they look really great together and most of the people cosplaying as them are not concerned with the flaws of the relationship in fact I would argue it makes it more "interesting" to them.

But like in modern media it shows Joker doesn’t even care about her at all. Back in the day was he ever shown to be caring of her in any way?

[Gripstir]

I think they were hilarious together in the animated series, fantastic chemistry. The more modern representation of the character where joker is really violent towards her and they have 0 humor in their dynamic is very bland and I don't understand how someone could find that interesting. TBF I think their relationship has suffered a lot of revisions over the years and it's almost nothing how it was initially.

Yeah so was there actual humor to their relationship back then? I don’t remember seeing a lot about them but I wasn’t a huge Batman universe consumer. I assume maybe they were not portrayed more cartoony back in the day

[Micael]

Yeah so was there actual humor to their relationship back then? I don’t remember seeing a lot about them but I wasn’t a huge Batman universe consumer. I assume maybe they were not portrayed more cartoony back in the day

I don't know about you but stuff like this was hilarious

[Triniking1234]

I think they were hilarious together in the animated series, fantastic chemistry. The more modern representation of the character where joker is really violent towards her and they have 0 humor in their dynamic is very bland and I don't understand how someone could find that interesting. TBF I think their relationship has suffered a lot of revisions over the years and it's almost nothing how it was initially.

Honestly, kids are smart enough to figure out that two villains in a relationship would have some level of toxicity so the episode where Joker assaults her for catching Batman and she still stays with him wouldn't have been a shocker.

Stuff like the New 52 reboot and what Sean Murph did in White Knight seem weird.

[Citizen Kane]

I always saw their relationship as having this Bonnie and Clyde dynamic but played off for a comedic effect. The antics in their relationship never really seemed anything more than comedic expression, early on. It wasn't until the '10s where there was tonal shift, leaning towards that of an abusive relationship (that thread started to formulate during the New 52 Suicide Squad run).

[lilyrose]

Yeah, I agree with the Bonnie and Clyde thing. People liked the idea of two villains and because they're villains they accept that their relationship isn't good or anything. But they were also funny characters on the tv show and people liked that too.

I disagree with the way they changed it in later years to make Harley a complete and total victim and not also a villain at the same time. She was both. It's like people can't hold those two thoughts in their head anymore. Or if they acknowledge that she was bad too, then it means you can't like her or identify with her or something (but that never stops people from being fans of the Joker).

[SecretWarrior]

The abuse thing goes back to her origin in BTAS/TNBA and Joker getting upset at her for getting in the way of his "fun" with Batman.





It's a kids show, but it's not good, ol', clean Bonnie and Clyde fun-sy time.