At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[leapyear baby]

I've read them. I read all of it. And, sorry, but again, that bit is out of continuity now

Death metal is not out of continuity; thats mental. Its what gave birth to infinite frontiers. Are you sure you remember it? Theres even a page where Barry tells Wally the universe has spawned into "Infinite Frontiers" and says at the very conclusion that their memories have been completely restored -- "all of them."

Are you reading the current books? How could it have both happened when it would mean that Clark was dating Diana and married to Lois at the same time??

Because it happened to two different versions of his life before being made whole. Its not that hard.

Again, that makes no logical sense. Because, like it or not, there is one timeline. Only ONE version of events can happen in a single continuity. That's just how continuity works. We can say "everything counts" but things that are clearly contradictory of one another cannot exist in the same timeline.

No there isn't and I believe here is where you missing the boat again and again. DC is not establishing a single timeline in which some things occurred and others did not. I actually don't think youre confused by that more than you are just in rejection of that model and in rejection of DC for implementing it. You very much the want the familiar. You can be a little more honest about it. You prefer the “it either happened or it didn’t” model because it made for a cleaner way or organizing history and events. Am I correct?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Death metal is not out of continuity; thats mental. Its what gave birth to infinite frontiers. Are you sure you remember it? Theres even a page where Barry tells Wally the universe has spawned into "Infinite Frontiers" and says at the very conclusion that their memories have been completely restored -- "all of them."

Lol. I wasn't talking about Death Metal. I was talking about Clark and Diana's relationship. And again, Barry saying that to Wally doesn't mean that Clark Diana's relationship is in continuity. In fact, that line was probably in reference to everyone's Pre-New 52 memories and histories being put back into place.

Because it happened to two different versions that later fused. Its not that hard.

Again, fusing doesn't mean that some things weren't tossed out, especially when there are clear disparities.

No there isn't and I believe here is where you missing the boat again and again. DC is not establishing a single timeline in which some things occurred and others did not. I actually don't think youre confused by that more than you are just in rejection and in rejection of DC for implementing it. You very much the want the familiar. You can be a little more honest about it. You prefer the “it either happened or it didn’t” model because it made for a cleaner way or organizing history and events. Am I correct?

You still haven't answered the question I asked you: how could Clark have dated Diana while married to Lois?

Sorry, but again, there is a single main continuity. That is how continuity works. We are all reading the books taking place on one main Earth, correct? The books in DC's line share a universe and sometimes cross over with each other, do they not? So, on that one Earth, there can only be one way that time and events happen, just like in the real world. For example, on DC's main Earth, we can't say that Dick Grayson both lost his parents, was taken in by Bruce, and became Robin and then later Nightwing...and at the same time say that the Graysons lived and that Dick never met Bruce.

No, that is nonsensical. We could say that on a different Earth, things shook out differently for Dick, but that doesn't make sense for the main Earth, where he is clearly Nightwing still. So, the whole "it all happened" thing that came out of Death Metal is nice and it's good to see that DC acknowledges that messing with time is a meta thing in the DC Universe as part of the whole Crises events. But in the current iteration of the mainstream continuity, some things from the New 52 could not have happened because they clearly contradict what is true right now in the books.

Sorry, but that's just how it has to be for the DCU to make any logical sense, which is a basic requirement of storytelling.

[Menacer]

Lol. I wasn't talking about Death Metal. I was talking about Clark and Diana's relationship. And again, Barry saying that to Wally doesn't mean that Clark Diana's relationship is in continuity. In fact, that line was probably in reference to everyone's Pre-New 52 memories and histories being put back into place.



Again, fusing doesn't mean that some things weren't tossed out, especially when there are clear disparities.



You still haven't answered the question I asked you: how could Clark have dated Diana while married to Lois?

Sorry, but again, there is a single main continuity. That is how continuity works. We are all reading the books taking place on one main Earth, correct? The books in DC's line share a universe and sometimes cross over with each other, do they not? So, on that one Earth, there can only be one way that time and events happen, just like in the real world. For example, on DC's main Earth, we can't say that Dick Grayson both lost his parents, was taken in by Bruce, and became Robin and then later Nightwing...and at the same time say that the Graysons lived and that Dick never met Bruce.

No, that is nonsensical. We could say that on a different Earth, things shook out differently for Dick, but that doesn't make sense for the main Earth, where he is clearly Nightwing still. So, the whole "it all happened" thing that came out of Death Metal is nice and it's good to see that DC acknowledges that messing with time is a meta thing in the DC Universe as part of the whole Crises events. But in the current iteration of the mainstream continuity, some things from the New 52 could not have happened because they clearly contradict what is true right now in the books.

Sorry, but that's just how it has to be for the DCU to make any logical sense, which is a basic requirement of storytelling.

.
Alternate pasts? Like New52??
.
20210822_183947.jpg

.
Screenshot_20210822-191400_Chrome.jpg
..

20210822_183810.jpg
What does this stuff reference then?

The primary alternate past is the New52 is it not?

[leapyear baby]

, Barry saying that to Wally doesn't mean that Clark Diana's relationship is in continuity. In fact, that line was probably in reference to everyone's Pre-New 52 memories and histories being put back into place.

These writers are pretty deliberate with their word choice. "All our memories returned." Not "some of our memories returned" or "our old memories returned." All means all. this is the theme of infinite frontiers.

You still haven't answered the question I asked you: how could Clark have dated Diana while married to Lois?

Several people have answered it for you but you don't like it. Here it is again: Supermans had split lives wherein he dated Diana in one and married Lois in another. Do you find this confusing?

Sorry, but again, there is a single main continuity. That is how continuity works.

"The single main continuity" is the one youve been reading coming out of death metal, which acknowledges the existence all the ones that came before.. In this continuity, characters have lived split lives from previous continuities , are aware of such, and are made "whole" by it. Its a continuity larger than and outside the scale of your previous little self-contained little earth continuities that its made of. I suggest just reading metal again though.

Sorry, but again, there is a single main continuity. That is how continuity works. We are all reading the books taking place on one main Earth, correct?

There is no "one main Earth" in the center of the multiverse anymore. Not only that, but there are multiple multiverses. You need to go back and reread death metal. Its clear you didn't understand it. fear not: Wally shares your confusion.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

.
Alternate pasts? Like New52??
.
20210822_183947.jpg

.
Screenshot_20210822-191400_Chrome.jpg
..

20210822_183810.jpg
What does this stuff reference then?

The primary alternate past is the New52 is it not?

I presume you know what "alternate" means, right? It literally means "the other" as in "not the main one." So, that means that that panel is saying that those pasts are literally not the main past.

Also, Wally literally says "new Earths" as in not their own.

So all you're left with is a meta-reference to a marketing name meant only for the readers to pick up on?

These writers are pretty deliberate with their word choice. "All our memories returned." Not "some of our memories returned" or "our old memories returned." All means all. this is the theme of infinite frontiers.

"All" as in "all of our memories from before the Flashpoint," maybe? Again, you're supposing a meaning on dialogue that doesn't necessarily say what you think it does.

Several people have answered it for you but you don't like it. Here it is again: Supermans had split lives wherein he dated Diana in one and married Lois in another. Do you find this confusing?

And again, that answer doesn't make logical sense. It's not an actual explanation. And, sorry, the current status in the books doesn't back up both timelines existing simultaneously. Superman couldn't have been living two lives in the same timeline.

"The single main continuity" is the one youve been reading coming out of death metal, which acknowledges the existence all the ones that came before.. In this continuity, characters have lived split lives from previous continuities , are aware of such, and are made "whole" by it. Its a continuity larger than and outside the scale of your previous little self-contained little earth continuities that its made of. I suggest just reading metal again though.

Acknowledges their existence but at the same time literally takes great pains to establish that they're not the same as the one currently ongoing. In Infintie Frontier, they literally refer to the New 52 era as an era when time had been "messed with,” implying that a lot of the stuff from the New 52 doesn’t hold true anymore.

There is no "one main Earth" in the center of the multiverse anymore. Not only that, but there are multiple multiverses. You need to go back and reread death metal. Its clear you didn't understand it. fear not: Wally shares your confusion.

Except maybe...the one where all the books still take place? Maybe that one is the main Earth...

[Vordan]

Clark dated Diana some time time in the past, they broke up, it’s over. It really isn’t that hard to grasp. Everything is canon means they can reference anything and everything if they do desire, and they don’t care about trying to resolve it all into one concise timeline.

[Kid Devil]

Clark dated Diana some time time in the past, they broke up, it’s over.

That must make their working relationship harder.

[Vordan]

That must make their working relationship harder.

Lol nah. Like I said if they want to reference it they can, but if they don’t they don’t have to. People can reference Iron Man’s dickery from Civil War if they want to, but if they don’t they can ignore it. DC has adopted Marvel style continuity where canon matters when it’s referenced and is ignored when it isn’t.

Of the New 52, Johns JL in it’s entirety is still canon, it’s one of the few runs that’s been repeatedly shown to have all happened as it was told.

[Greta]

…
Anyway, that’s the comic books online media landscape in its depressing nutshell. Sadly, some would call it an exploitative and dishonest. Just keeping it real. I don't have any strong opinions on this threads main topic but felt I had to respond to this all this talk of "critical, professional reviews." I don’t want people to harbor illusions about what they are reading and who is writing it. They are not written by "professionals" in the common sense of the word. They are written by people who often have no credentials. They do not "do it for a living" because there isn't enough money to be made. Many end up feeling misled. There is some value in their work: the objective information relating to universe history, character references, timelines tend to be accurate… but the opinions and interpretations in these "critical reviews" are very often predetermined and not earnest in their conviction. They are not written by experts. Often they are not even fans of the material. Sad but true. I personally would not hold their opinions in a special regard over any other rando.

That was depressing. Wow. Thank you for making us aware of the nature of those "professional critic reviews." The Heroes in Crisis bit is appallingly sad and tragically believable. What a world... ugh. Screw those review mills.

Again, that makes no logical sense. Because, like it or not, there is one timeline. Only ONE version of events can happen in a single continuity. That's just how continuity works. We can say "everything counts" but things that are clearly contradictory of one another cannot exist in the same timeline.

This isn’t complicated unless you make it. I can try and explain it to you but as others have mentioned, I think you are fundamentally opposed to the concept of the characters existing with a new awareness of their place in the omniverse. I’ll try anyway -- again.

The point we are at now is a timeline which “started” out of death metal. Think of the previous “continuities” as multiple strings of yarn laid out separately on a sheet of paper. Up until Death Metal we were following just one of those strings, which was the New 52 and Rebirth eras. Then Death Metal happened. At this point on the sheet of paper, the different strings, including the one we were following were pinched together and twisted into one coil and that how it's continued since. The coil is composed of all the previous timelines joined into one twisting one.

So when you keep asking how is it possible that Superman dated Diana and married Lois, it’s because those events occurred before the different strings were joined. Do you get that now? That might be the part you aren’t getting. Think of it as a "super continuity" if it helps. It’s a combined timeline, the characters are aware of it, and their memories from every single of yarn are as one. "All of them." Some are expressed to greater degrees at different parts along it. To help visualize, think of the individual strings in the coil being thicker in some areas but thinner in others. It isn't that confusing.

But in the current iteration of the mainstream continuity, some things from the New 52 could not have happened because they clearly contradict what is true right now in the books.

Based on this new model, they can.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That was depressing. Wow. Thank you for making us aware of the nature of those "professional critic reviews." The Heroes in Crisis bit is appallingly sad and tragically believable. What a world... ugh. Screw those review mills.



This isn’t complicated unless you make it. I can try and explain it to you but as others have mentioned, I think you are fundamentally opposed to the concept of the characters existing with a new awareness of their place in the omniverse. I’ll try anyway -- again.

The point we are at now is a timeline which “started” out of death metal. Think of the previous “continuities” as multiple strings of yarn laid out separately on a sheet of paper. Up until Death Metal we were following just one of those strings, which was the New 52 and Rebirth eras. Then Death Metal happened. At this point on the sheet of paper, the different strings, including the one we were following were pinched together and twisted into one coil and that how it's continued since. The coil is composed of all the previous timelines joined into one twisting one.

So when you keep asking how is it possible that Superman dated Diana and married Lois, it’s because those events occurred before the different strings were joined. Do you get that now? That might be the part you aren’t getting. Think of it as a "super continuity" if it helps. It’s a combined timeline, the characters are aware of it, and their memories from every single of yarn are as one. "All of them." Some are expressed to greater degrees at different parts along it. To help visualize, think of the individual strings in the coil being thicker in some areas but thinner in others. It isn't that confusing.


Based on this new model, they can.

And I'll explain, again, that that does not make logical sense. You can keep saying that the different strings "came together" but at the end of the day, that one "string" cannot contain events that contradict one another. That is literally the point of a timeline, a fundamental tenant of any type of storytelling, to serve as the known foundation for the characters' histories.

That single timeline can be a mix of certain elements taken from different eras, but at the end of the day, contradictory events cannot exist in the same timeline.

And for that matter, Clark couldn't have dated Diana before him and Lois got together because even Reborn showed us that, during the time he would have been dating Diana, Clark was still married to Lois. Also, the Clark/Lois/Lana thing was just one of several questions I asked which show how the whole "it all happened" explanation doesn't really hold true for a lot of things. And I have yet to see any satisfactory answer to any of them.

But at the end of the day, this discussion is going nowhere.

[Menacer]

And I'll explain, again, that that does not make logical sense. You can keep saying that the different strings "came together" but at the end of the day, only one version of events will be referenced and used as the foundation for current continuity. That is literally the point of a timeline. That is a fundamental tenant of any type of storytelling. Trying to do mental gymnastics to explain the omniverse will not change that.

That single timeline can be a mix of certain elements taken from different eras, but at the end of the day, contradictory events cannot exist in the same timeline.

And for that matter, the Clark/Lois/Lana thing was just one of several questions I asked which show how the whole "it all happened" explanation doesn't really hold true for a lot of things. And I have yet to see any satisfactory answer to any of them.

https://www.gamesradar.com/the-new-d...rse-explained/

I recommed the whole article
But here is a quote

Not only has all of the 52 Earths of the previously-known Multiverse destroyed during Death Metal been restored... but in some cases, they're new versions (including Earth-3 that features in a new iteration of The Crime Syndicate) and new Earths are being created expanding upon the 52 that's been more or less canon since Grant Morrison's Multiversity.

[Vordan]

Just for you Goblin I went and tracked down the WW Rebirth page that referenced the romance:

03EEFE01-65A1-44F2-AD59-C2BA8D02655C.jpg

Also Reborn is no longer canon lmao, Taylor has Clark wearing his classic suit when he arrived to witness Jon’s birth.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Just for you Goblin I went and tracked down the WW Rebirth page that referenced the romance:

03EEFE01-65A1-44F2-AD59-C2BA8D02655C.jpg

Also Reborn is no longer canon lmao, Taylor has Clark wearing his classic suit when he arrived to witness Jon’s birth.

Yeah, I don't think that means that Reborn is out of continuity. But hey, classic Superman costume! That's a good thing in my book. Also, I already read that issue.

But, I don't know why you brought up this page from an early Rebirth WW comic. The relationship has been out of canon since Superman Reborn and it still is. That's just the truth. Sorry.

Also, the whole Clark/Lois/Diana thing was just one of, like, five examples I gave about how the timeline can't be "it all happened."

[Menacer]

Just for you Goblin I went and tracked down the WW Rebirth page that referenced the romance:

03EEFE01-65A1-44F2-AD59-C2BA8D02655C.jpg

Also Reborn is no longer canon lmao, Taylor has Clark wearing his classic suit when he arrived to witness Jon’s birth.

Possibly you are misunderstanding what canon means. The fact he has an older costume doesn't negate the journey.


....

6. It all matters ... but how?
Finally, the mechanics of DC continuity/canon are either still to be defined or left open-ended on purpose.

As DC has already detailed, the result of Death Metal is that everything is now continuity in some respects.

The clear implication of Death Metal and Infinite Frontier is that hard reboots like the original Crisis On Infinite Earths and Flashpoint/'The New 52' are irrelevant and DC is no longer going to attempt to cram continuity into a cohesive timeline resembling the real world passage of time.

Barry explains to Wally in Death Metal #7 that as the result of Wonder Woman's battle with the Darkest Knight, "the timeline was unknotted once and for all and all our memories returned."

Hawkgirl then explains to Wally that Hypertime is healing and that characters will likely experience flashes of events that happened in Hypertime and alternate pasts "in pretty epic fashion."

Infinite Frontier #0 also contains exposition suggesting DC characters are now more whole, that legacy taken away during the 'New 52' along with their belief in themselves has been restored.

For the moment, this is all very meta-textual and hasn't been defined in a specific way.

Unlike the Linearverse, which is its own specific thing and does not represent the core timelines, how the lives of the 'current' Superman and Batman and Flash, etc. are distinguished between the lives of previous versions - meaning how or if a narrative canon that does not rely on the Linearverse conceit of heroes that age slowly is established - remains to be seen. Will every major DC character essentially become Hawkman - a complex conglomeration of past lives?

For the moment, after 35 years of being preoccupied with making its continuity make sense, DC seems to want readers to decide for themselves how the puzzle pieces fit together, or if it matters to you if they do at all.

https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/the-n...rse-explained/

Read that whole article.

Lot of confused commentors... it all happened on parallel timelines in the Multiverse. It all matters

[Greta]

And I'll explain, again, that that does not make logical sense. You can keep saying that the different strings "came together" but at the end of the day, only one version of events will be referenced and used as the foundation for current continuity.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and in total contradiction to what Infinite Frontiers is. I am sorry to do that but again, "it all matters." The future stories can stem from any event in the previous timelines. That is the whole point of Infinite Frontiers. Everything you are saying contradicts Death Metal. It also flies against DC Comics decision to no longer adhere to one fixed timeline in their future storytelling. I'm not trying to be harsh but that's just wrong all-around, sorry.

That single timeline can be a mix of certain elements taken from different eras, but at the end of the day, contradictory events cannot exist in the same timeline.

The contradictory events occurred before the timelines joined. The joining is not retroactive nor does it extend as a single timeline before that point. Serious question: are you just trolling?

"All" as in "all of our memories from before the Flashpoint," maybe? Again, you're supposing a meaning on dialogue that doesn't necessarily say what you think it does.

You're really reaching.

But at the end of the day, this discussion is going nowhere.

No kidding.