At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Again, they say everything matters, and everything happened. Buuuuut, then, explain to me:

How could it be that Superman and Diana were involved in a long-term relationship (one where he was apparently ready to propose to her) but at the same time Superman was married to Lois with a child at home?

Also, how would it be possible that New 52 Superman's origin with his parents dead is still intact when we see, quite clearly, that his parents are still alive currently?

How could the New 52 storyline "Truth" still have happened? In that story, Lois Lane revealed to the entire world that Clark Kent was Superman, so how was Superman's secret identity secret again post-Superman Reborn and was only recently revealed again during Bendis's run?

If the New 52 Amazons still existed in this timeline, then why do we have a Hippolyta who is definitely NOT the New 52 Hippolyta serving on the JLA right now?

Also, how can it be that the Amazons of Bana Mighdall are back when they were erased by Flashpoint? Also, then what was the whole Greg Rucka Rebirth run about, with the whole "Lies" storyline?

How could the New 52 Justice League origin still be how Victor became Cyborg, yet the preview from Deathstroke, Inc. shows that the New Teen Titans and his old origin are now intact?

These are contradictions that can't exist in the same timeline. That's all I'm saying.

[Menacer]

Again, they say everything matters, and everything happened. Buuuuut, then, explain to me:

How could it be that Superman and Diana were involved in a long-term relationship (one where he was apparently ready to propose to her) but at the same time Superman was married to Lois with a child at home?

Also, how would it be possible that New 52 Superman's origin with his parents dead is still intact when we see, quite clearly, that his parents are still alive currently?

How could the New 52 storyline "Truth" still have happened? In that story, Lois Lane revealed to the entire world that Clark Kent was Superman, so how was Superman's secret identity secret again post-Superman Reborn and was only recently revealed again during Bendis's run?

If the New 52 Amazons still existed in this timeline, then why do we have a Hippolyta who is definitely NOT the New 52 Hippolyta serving on the JLA right now?

Also, how can it be that the Amazons of Bana Mighdall are back when they were erased by Flashpoint? Also, then what was the whole Greg Rucka Rebirth run about, with the whole "Lies" storyline?

How could the New 52 Justice League origin still have been the first appearance of Cyborg, yet the preview from Deathstroke, Inc. shows that the New Teen Titans and his old origin are now intact?

Simple

You are only seeing one of the parallel time lines played out.

And you may not see a varation of supermans time line.

But we could get any number of combinations of other heroes and their various backgrounds along with totally new ones...

It all matters. Time will tell which stories Infinite Frontier explorers.

This really isnt that complicated

Read the article Ive posted
https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/the-n...rse-explained/

Have you read Future State ?
Dc has specifically said this is one version of what happens in the future. But other varations can also exist. This is just what they chose to show us so far. Some have said future state will be an annual event, constantly showing possible futures. Isnt this correct?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Simple

You are only seeing one of the parallel time lines played out.

And you may not see a varation of supermans time line.

But we could get any number of combinations of other heroes and their various backgrounds along with totally new ones...

It all matters. Time will tell which stories Infinite Frontier explorers.

This really isnt that complicated

Read the article Ive posted
https://www.gamesradar.com/amp/the-n...rse-explained/

So, in other words, what we see in the books now is the main timeline. The alternate pasts are just that: parallel timelines.

That's literally what I've been saying all along...

Thank you.

As for Future State, yeah, but that's set in the future. That's always what they say with future stories. It's just one version of what might happen. It's different when we're talking about things that are supposed to be established in the past.

[Greta]

Again, they say everything matters, and everything happened. Buuuuut, then, explain to me:
How could it be that Superman and Diana were involved in a long-term relationship (one where he was apparently ready to propose to her) but at the same time Superman was married to Lois with a child at home?

They can happen at the same time because they did not happen to the same version of Superman. They took place within their own universe so therefore they did not contradict. The same answers applies uniformly to all your questions.

These are contradictions that can't exist in the same timeline. That's all I'm saying.

The contradictions took place while timelines were still separate, not the same.

That is literally the point of a timeline. That is a fundamental tenant of any type of storytelling.

There is a timeline. It is a timeline that was formed when multiple "incomplete" ones were pinched into a bigger one in Death Metal. Did you see Marvels Endgame? Remember the little diagram the bald sorceress shows Hulk with the one timeline that splits into two different ones? Picture that in reverse: two separate lines joining into one line, and with the people in the joined-together branch possessing the knowledge of how both timelines occurred. That is what we have, except there were more than two branches.

[Menacer]

So, in other words, what we see in the books now is the main timeline. The alternate pasts are just that: parallel timelines.

That's literally what I've been saying all along...

Thank you.

As for Future State, yeah, but that's set in the future. That's always what they say with future stories. It's just one version of what might happen. It's different when we're talking about things that are supposed to be established in the past.

I mean maybe its the main timeline. Maybe. Its just the one we are reading now...

I think we are fairly close to understanding each other and can say we agree, or see it the same way.

So how about this

August 31, 2011 – May 25, 2016 ... for roughly 4 years Clark Kent Superman appeared to us as the main continuity superman. This was new52.

When Convergence happened. SUPRISE! this young Superman dating wonder woman is a parallel Superman and some how Dr. Manhattan is involved.

For 4 years we followed a parallel continuity as the main continuity. And facets of that continuity are permanently intertwined with Rebirth/Reborn merging which launched us into Metal and Death Metal which has brought us to Infinite Frontier ... at this point arguable no one can really say what stories from 1939 to 2021 are going to be referenced.

We have no idea.

As far as DC has said. it all matters.

So frankly if you can agree with me that your excited for the future of DC regardless of what stories get built upon... well then we are on the same page.

It all Matters. The journey is important. And where its going in all honestly we can only guess. And which past stories will matter. We can only read and find out.

To put it simply
According to DC

MAIN Continuity is what us published.

[Greta]

I mean maybe its the main timeline.

By "main timeline" I think he still means “the timeline from before" that is either unmerged or with various recent events retconned out. Death Metal is where I think he is stuck. I could be wrong and maybe he's gotten it but he can say whether or not that's true.

You are correct in your statements about references to the past. What will be referenced going forward will depend on the story. They may very well just avoid certain variations like the Clark+Diana variation, but even if do they write about it, we will have an “in-universe” or “in-continuity” explanation for why it’s still in play. You just have to expand your scope of the continuity to one that is wider than it was before Death Metal. Do that and it will still make perfect sense. I personally believe this is where some people are having a problem. They’re stuck in a one-earth timeline mentality and haven’t had that “a-ha” moment yet.

Most other things don’t even contradict each other though, so I don’t expect them to be avoided. In one story arc, they may reference Jason Todd’s past with Roy and Kory. In another, maybe it will be Artemis and Bizarro. Right now they are still in the beginning stages and still busy reintroducing characters like Obsidian and his sister.

So, in other words, what we see in the books now is the main timeline. The alternate pasts are just that: parallel timelines.

You’re getting closer: they were all “parallel timelines” prior to Death Metal, including pre52, and all were incomplete. The “main timeline” which came out of Death metal is composed of all of them.

[Greta]

One last thing:

And I'll explain, again, that that does not make logical sense. You can keep saying that the different strings "came together" but at the end of the day, that one "string" cannot contain events that contradict one another..

Yes it can, and this might help. Picture three separate strings of yarn on a sheet of paper joining at a point then twisting together: one red, one blue, one white. What do you end up with? A cord of red, white, and blue. They don't "contradict each other" nor do they exist to the exclusion of one another. The predominant color you see at any given point depends on the way it's twisting. You can think of the writer as the one doing that twisting. But all colors still present throughout. That's really how basic it is.

[Vordan]

Yeah, I don't think that means that Reborn is out of continuity. But hey, classic Superman costume! That's a good thing in my book. Also, I already read that issue.

But, I don't know why you brought up this page from an early Rebirth WW comic. The relationship has been out of canon since Superman Reborn and it still is. That's just the truth. Sorry.

Also, the whole Clark/Lois/Diana thing was just one of, like, five examples I gave about how the timeline can't be "it all happened."

Lmao Orlando was writing after Reborn my man. He was the guy who wrote the book up until Death Metal and that issue I posted came out while Tynion was on the Batman book. You’re just in denial, that’s the only truth I see here. You're denying what DC themselves is doing right now because you don’t want them acknowledging New 52 stuff. If Reborn coming out meant New 52 was out of continuity, newer stuff coming out and contradicting Reborn means Reborn no longer matters. Hell Reborn deleted Morrison’s Action run, yet since then Morrison’s Action stuff has been brought back such as Xa-Du. New 52 stories are a part of the Infinite Frontier timeline whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

You keep insisting about how it doesn’t make sense, but the post-Reborn timeline never made any sense either. Somehow Johns JL run was still canon despite how it couldn’t have been if it wasn’t the teams first meeting. Somehow the gods such as Hera had their designs from the New 52 in Snyder’s JL and recently the current WW run despite that run being “a lie” (the events of which are still canon, simply the context changed).

DC doesn’t care about resolving the contradictions, but they are acknowledging the New 52 as an “era” that happened and that people remembered.

[HsssH]

Isn't Superdoom from Morrison's Action also in Infinite Frontier book?

[Vordan]

Isn't Superdoom from Morrison's Action also in Infinite Frontier book?

Yep.



And here’s a pic from the last issue of IF where they acknowledge the New 52 versions of Batman & Superman

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Lmao Orlando was writing after Reborn my man. You’re just in denial. If Reborn coming out meant it was out of continuity, newer stuff coming out and contradicting Reborn means Reborn no longer matters. Hell Reborn deleted Morrison’s Action run, yet since then Morrison’s Action stuff has been brought back such as Xa-Du.

Nah, I'm really not, my man. I didn't read much of Orlando's run on WW. But, that relationship still doesn't make sense in the current timeline since Superman was, again, married to Lois at the time he would've been dating Diana. So, are we presuming that Clark cheated on Lois? And the writers of the Superman comics themselves stated that the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship never happened. So, yeah, it's not like I invented the inference that it was out of continuity and most likely still is.

Not to mention that, again, that was one of several things that I brought up that don't fit from the New 52. For example, the fact that Clark's identity as Superman was magically a secret again after Reborn despite "Truth" having happened. Or the fact that New 52 Hippolyta is definitely not the Hippolyta currently appearing in the comics. Or the fact that the New 52 Superman origin is no longer applicable since Clark's parents are alive.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

By "main timeline" I think he still means “the timeline from before" that is either unmerged or with various recent events retconned out. Death Metal is where I think he is stuck. I could be wrong and maybe he's gotten it but he can say whether or not that's true.

You are correct in your statements about references to the past. What will be referenced going forward will depend on the story. They may very well just avoid certain variations like the Clark+Diana variation, but even if do they write about it, we will have an “in-universe” or “in-continuity” explanation for why it’s still in play. You just have to expand your scope of the continuity to one that is wider than it was before Death Metal. Do that and it will still make perfect sense. I personally believe this is where some people are having a problem. They’re stuck in a one-earth timeline mentality and haven’t had that “a-ha” moment yet.

Most other things don’t even contradict each other though, so I don’t expect them to be avoided. In one story arc, they may reference Jason Todd’s past with Roy and Kory. In another, maybe it will be Artemis and Bizarro. Right now they are still in the beginning stages and still busy reintroducing characters like Obsidian and his sister.


You’re getting closer: they were all “parallel timelines” prior to Death Metal, including pre52, and all were incomplete. The “main timeline” which came out of Death metal is composed of all of them.

You understand how that's a very "non-answer" answer, right?

The whole "everything happened" explanation that came out of Death Metal is basically a handwavy excuse for DC to do three things:

1) Revert characters back to the personalizations and canon that most fans liked the most, which for most characters was their Pre-Flashpoint status quos
2) Maintain some of the stuff from the New 52 that did prove popular: the Talons, Jessica Cruz, the new Shazam family, etc.
3) Discard the stuff from the New 52 that most fans didn't like: New 52 Amazons being sex pirate baby traffickers, Cyborg being a Leaguer before being a Titan, etc.

So, yeah, we can keep saying it all counts, but there are more than a few things from the New 52 that DC would probably like to keep buried.

[leapyear baby]

But, that relationship still doesn't make sense in the current timeline since Superman was, again, married to Lois at the time he would've been dating Diana.

it makes total sense, because it happened while still in two different continuities. Here is a visual aid, showing it happening at the same time. Clark marrying lois at same time he dated Diana. New timeline starts out of death metal. Thank me later.



See? Happened at the same time. still confused?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

You're misunderstanding: at no point have I been confused about what you're trying to put forth. What I'm saying is that that explanation doesn't make logical sense. You can't have a timeline where Clark was with both at the same time. Even presuming that he has memories of being with Diana, his actually being with her didn't "happen" in this timeline as it were.

And again, for like the tenth time, that's only one of the multiple things from the New 52 that could not work in this timeline.

[leapyear baby]

The whole "everything happened" explanation that came out of Death Metal is basically a handwavy excuse for DC to do three things:

1) Revert characters back to the personalizations and canon that most fans liked the most, which for most characters was their Pre-Flashpoint status quos
2) Maintain some of the stuff from the New 52 that did prove popular: the Talons, Jessica Cruz, the new Shazam family, etc.
3) Discard the stuff from the New 52 that most fans didn't like: New 52 Amazons being sex pirate baby traffickers, Cyborg being a Leaguer before being a Titan, etc.

So, yeah, we can keep saying it all counts, but there are more than a few things from the New 52 that DC would probably like to keep buried.

Or, youre just uncomfortable with there being multiple separate timelines that didn't join until Death Metal. Nothings reverted; nothings discarded. Thats lore right now. That bothers you, and youre trying to revise history. Its not gonna happen. DC isn't selling it.

This is definitely a personal crusade for you. Youve made it clear you want there to be only be one timeline, but haven't touched on why. Can you explain why?