At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[ducklord]

Understandable? Sure. Messy as hell and terribly annoying? Also yes.

I gotta imagine that it's extra annoying for anyone who came on board with the New 52.

[Drako]

I thought I would have heard the last of Superman splitting and merging after the red and blue phase.

They even referenced Blue and Red Supermen.

Unfortunately Dark Death Metal Nights of Death changed that.

Really? How it changed?
I only read some spin off of Death Metal, i didn't care for the main book.

[SteelisLean]

Yes, in the beginning of Rebirth we had two Supermen, the Super dad one and the New 52 one. But in Superman Reborn we saw that they were merged into one and their histories were altered and fused. Except we cleary see that the new merged timeline is basically pre Flashpoint Superman. So the New 52 guy got erased after Superman Reborn.

You're close but not 100% . What happened was there were two Supermans at the beginning of Rebirth. You are correct that they merged into a mostly pre Flashpoint Superman. However, that didn't excise New52 Superman from the timeline in a flashpoint style, or else Superman Reborn couldn't even have occurred; it would be a paradox. New 52 superman existed up until that point. Now he exists as a minor portion of current Superman. Prior to that they both physically existed. This is a strange thing to argue against since its all in print and DC has never changed this story, either in-universe or outside it. Anything else is legit just your headcanon.

And again, make no mistake, the New 52 is not the mainline continuity anymore. I have looked outside of this site. Yeah, uh, it's over dude. A few articles from around the internet that "universally agrees that the New 52 is still the main continuity" according to you...

If any timeline sets the foundation for the timeline coming out of death metal, it would still be the one that started in 2011. A charitable interpretation is that no one timeline has this role. Death metal did not establish one of the older timelines as being a main one. And the only reason youre not seeing much of the new 52 is simply because it is not current and theres a backlog of old characters to bring back. The timelines started in New52 is still what DC is mostly rolling everything else into though.

[Greta]

They even referenced Blue and Red Supermen.
Really? How it changed?
I only read some spin off of Death Metal, i didn't care for the main book.

It's going to be a little more challenging to understand the nature of DC's current timeline and direction unless you read the conclusion of #6 and most of #7 of Death Metal. It's not quite as necessary as understanding Flashpoint but it's close. It's definitely crucial to understanding Infinite Frontier. I get the feeling several people in this thread either didn't read or glossed over Death Metal including green goblin since he seemed sort of unfamiliar with the images of the scenes posted. Cripes, no wonder people are confused about Superman.

[InfamousBG]

The timelines started in New52 is still what DC is mostly rolling everything else into though.

Again misinformed and wrong. Sorry bud.

[ducklord]

Again misinformed and wrong. Sorry bud.

I think that's probably lacking a little nuance. Although it's true that a truckload of pre-Flashpoint continuity has been dumped back into DC's continuity (this can't be understated... going from "no golden age" to "all of the golden age" alone has reintegrated gazillions of stories back into the timeline), this hasn't been a full-stop hard reboot like the New 52.

This has been more like a large-scale version of the changes that were made in crossovers like Infinite Crisis, where we woke up one morning and, bam, suddenly Wonder Woman was a founding member of the JLA again, and Byrne's Doom Patrol never existed because someone punched a wall somewhere. Only this time, the changes are more widespread. Technically, it could be argued that this is still the New52 Universe, only with so much added to it that, depending on which titles you're reading, you'd be hard-pressed to recognize the New52-ness of it.

[Drako]

You're close but not 100% . What happened was there were two Supermans at the beginning of Rebirth. You are correct that they merged into a mostly pre Flashpoint Superman. However, that didn't excise New52 Superman from the timeline in a flashpoint style, or else Superman Reborn couldn't even have occurred; it would be a paradox. New 52 superman existed up until that point. Now he exists as a minor portion of current Superman. Prior to that they both physically existed. This is a strange thing to argue against since its all in print and DC has never changed this story, either in-universe or outside it. Anything else is legit just your headcanon.

Of course the New 52 one existed until Superman reborn, but after they merged, the story about the previous didn't really matter and the Super Dad became the original one in universe. Hell, the most important fact about that New 52 Superman was that his parents weren't alive and now Ma and Pa Kent are alive and well.

If he still had Two Supermen in universe AFTER Superman Reborn, no one would act like the current one was their Superman, cause he wasn't. Nightwing this month said that Superman, Jon's Dad, was the one who gave him his name.

If any timeline sets the foundation for the timeline coming out of death metal, it would still be the one that started in 2011. A charitable interpretation is that no one timeline has this role. Death metal did not establish one of the older timelines as being a main one. And the only reason youre not seeing much of the new 52 is simply because it is not current and theres a backlog of old characters to bring back. The timelines started in New52 is still what DC is mostly rolling everything else into though.

That is true, the current universe still is the one that started with the New 52. DC is stretching the unnecessary 5 years timeline BS and filling stuff into it. The Pre-Flashpoint universe is not coming back, but they are trying to mirror that timeline.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

If any timeline sets the foundation for the timeline coming out of death metal, it would still be the one that started in 2011. A charitable interpretation is that no one timeline has this role. Death metal did not establish one of the older timelines as being a main one.

Dude. Again, no. What you're saying is not true. It would be one thing if they were JUST bringing Pre-Flashpoint "elements" back. However, if this were still the New 52 timeline, then the characters would still have all the origins and important moments that were established in the New 52 as part of their histories. And, as has been said many times and as is obvious from the books themselves, that's not the case. Like, honestly, how could you square this statement with the fact that so much of New 52 canon has been overwritten entirely??

In other words, it's not just that they brought Pre-Flashpoint stuff back, but it's also that they've taken most, if not all, of the New 52 canon out.

The New 52 Superman and his origins? Gone. You can say that the Superman we have is "mostly" Pre-Flashpoint, but uh, as Drako said, there's not any New 52 in actual practice. Not to mention that the New 52 Superman origin is now impossible since his parents are alive again.

The New 52 Amazons? Gone.

The New 52 alterations to the Robins and the Batgirls? Gone/reversed.

New 52 Superboy? Gone.

New 52 Justice League origin? Gone.

And this is not even a knock against the New 52, but...the conclusion that we're still in the New 52 timeline is just not at all reasonable, given what DC's actually publishing at the moment.

I mean, seriously, I don't understand why people are so resistant to accepting that reality. After Flashpoint, fans had to accept the end of that timeline (although, now we're seeing it come back in large part).

And the only reason youre not seeing much of the new 52 is simply because it is not current and theres a backlog of old characters to bring back. The timelines started in New52 is still what DC is mostly rolling everything else into though.

I honestly don't know if you're being serious with this. Like, you honestly don't think it might have something to do with the fact that most of the New 52 changes/characters were wildly unpopular? Just maybe...

[HsssH]

Also, something to note here: All the representations of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are explicitly of *previous* versions of the metaverse (Golden Age, Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, Post-Flashpoint), implying that the one the DCU is currently in is *none* of these.

But Post-Crisis Batman is definitely in continuity.

[SteelisLean]

Sorta fading out???!!! I swear people just make $Hit up here.

You are just misinformed and wrong...sorry...but maybe im not. Or am I just fading away like the rest of the "Pre52 fans" LOL!!!

I don’t know about other sites but I know for a fact that on DC Comics subreddit, which has a younger crowd (guessing average ages 18-30) and a monster-size community (500k), New52 is overwhelmingly popular and considered main continuity by most. If you were to do a search there asking what timeline is in use, they pretty much all interpret Infinite Frontier as using the one started in 2011. Tons of brand new readers go there asking for recommended new reading or just a launching off point, and everyone lists off New52 books and Rebirth books. Almost nobody recommends starting anywhere in Pre52. Pre52 is not disliked but is treated with more “meh” in that community. People who go on endless whines about the New 52 get downvoted because people just hate griping in general. People who advocate for retcons to anything often have their comments deleted due to the downvotes. People are very sick of retcons.

The New 52 Superman and his origins? Gone. You can say that the Superman we have is "mostly" Pre-Flashpoint, but uh, as Drako said, there's not any New 52 in actual practice. Not to mention that the New 52 Superman origin is now impossible since his parents are alive again.
The New 52 Amazons? Gone.
The New 52 alterations to the Robins and the Batgirls? Gone/reversed.
New 52 Superboy? Gone.
New 52 Justice League origin? Gone.
And this is not even a knock against the New 52, but...the conclusion that we're still in the New 52 timeline is just not at all reasonable, given what DC's actually publishing at the moment.
I mean, seriously, I don't understand why people are so resistant to accepting that reality. After Flashpoint, fans had to accept the end of that timeline (although, now we're seeing it come back in large part).

All of New52 JL is relevant and referenced, and is sort of integral to understanding why darkseid has been on hiatus until recently. New52 superman is dead, but he still existed and his persona absorbed.

I mean, seriously, I don't understand why people are so resistant to accepting that reality.

Several others have pointed out that you seem to be that not only doesn't accept reality, but wants it revised. It seems personal for you?? For literally 21 pages youve been repeating the same questions to yourself and the same lists in spite of a lot of people sorta shutting you down. Ive been watching. I don't see anyone else trying to incorrectly insist things didn't happen or were reversed. It's weird.

You are the person who kept asking how Clark dated Diana but married Lois, for like 5 pages, seeming to not realize that there were two supermans for a period of time. You need to read superman: rebirth one shot. There is no second flashpoint that reversed time afterward.

[SteelisLean]

Of course the New 52 one existed until Superman reborn, but after they merged, the story about the previous didn't really matter and the Super Dad became the original one in universe. Hell, the most important fact about that New 52 Superman was that his parents weren't alive and now Ma and Pa Kent are alive and well.

Yea, It didn't matter anymore because there was still the other new Superman around, and the New52 version was no longer current after being absorbed. But as you say New52 supes still existed up until the point at which he died. He was there for 5 chronological years; what changed about new Superman and others perception of him as the new original occurred after that point. It sounds like we agree there.

But one or two people seem to be erroneously believe New52 superman death didn't actually happen at all, because he was never existing at all, which would of course make Superman reborn not possible, and it would make a ton of other stories not possible.

Its odd they say New 52 timeline isn't what were still using even though we have been since 2011.. We are reading midnighter and apollo in superman and authority.. Lol

That is true, the current universe still is the one that started with the New 52. DC is stretching the unnecessary 5 years timeline BS and filling stuff into it. The Pre-Flashpoint universe is not coming back, but they are trying to mirror that timeline.

I very much agree. It is the timeline that started with the new 52 and its mirroring the old, as you state. But there actually seems to be a person whos in this thread who believes we actually switched universes over again, lol

[leapyear baby]

Like, honestly, how could you square this statement with the fact that so much of New 52 canon has been overwritten entirely??

It hasnt been overwritten. Some things just arent used. All is canon now. See Joshua williamson interview from July.

The New 52 Superman and his origins? Gone

He died and merged. He dated Diana. No ones arguing that New52 supes is still around except as part of current supes, that I can see But pretty much everybody except you agrees that he existed and he dated Diana, as we are still using the timeline that began in 2011. If you don't believe that, then please point to the specific book which rebooted a new timeline between 2011 and now.

That is true, the current universe still is the one that started with the New 52. DC is stretching the unnecessary 5 years timeline BS and filling stuff into it. The Pre-Flashpoint universe is not coming back, but they are trying to mirror that timeline.

Agreed.

[Rightoya]

Big parts of the New 52 are still terrible.

[Jekyll]

No, it was still terrible and many of my favorite characters have never recovered from it.

[witchboy]

I don’t know about other sites but I know for a fact that on DC Comics subreddit, which has a younger crowd (guessing average ages 18-30) and a monster-size community (500k), New52 is overwhelmingly popular and considered main continuity by most. If you were to do a search there asking what timeline is in use, they pretty much all interpret Infinite Frontier as using the one started in 2011. Tons of brand new readers go there asking for recommended new reading or just a launching off point, and everyone lists off New52 books and Rebirth books. Almost nobody recommends starting anywhere in Pre52. Pre52 is not disliked but is treated with more “meh” in that community. People who go on endless whines about the New 52 get downvoted because people just hate griping in general. People who advocate for retcons to anything often have their comments deleted due to the downvotes. People are very sick of retcons.



All of New52 JL is relevant and referenced, and is sort of integral to understanding why darkseid has been on hiatus until recently. New52 superman is dead, but he still existed and his persona absorbed.


Several others have pointed out that you seem to be that not only doesn't accept reality, but wants it revised. It seems personal for you?? For literally 21 pages youve been repeating the same questions to yourself and the same lists in spite of a lot of people sorta shutting you down. Ive been watching. I don't see anyone else trying to incorrectly insist things didn't happen or were reversed. It's weird.

You are the person who kept asking how Clark dated Diana but married Lois, for like 5 pages, seeming to not realize that there were two supermans for a period of time. You need to read superman: rebirth one shot. There is no second flashpoint that reversed time afterward.

I would think it depends on what you want to read.
Batman's history didn't get messed with much so sure, New 52 would make a good jumping on point.
New 52 Superman's history isn't really compatible with the current Superman, so I'd think Rebirth would be a better jumping on point than New 52 for him.