At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[InfamousBG]

Thank you for confirming my statements. You made for an excellent case study. If you want to break free from your chains, try to think about things other than in terms of how they affect you emotionally.

THIS IS COMICS!!!! Nothing that comes from a page from a comic these days affects me emotionally.

Yes I care about continuity so what!!!! You care about the New 52 which does not even exist anymore LOL!

Case study? Grow up. You come here to think your this higher power telling us all what to think and believe after you have been a comic fan for like a week.

The New 52 (yes it was popular) absolutely sucked and pissed a ton of people off.

In like 10-20 years when you can actually call yourself a fan and DC, Marvel, whoever kills off and erases one of your favorite characters maybe then you will understand.

You are wrong on so many levels.

Good day...

[Menacer]

THIS IS COMICS!!!! Nothing that comes from a page from a comic these days affects me emotionally.

Yes I care about continuity so what!!!! You care about the New 52 which does not even exist anymore LOL!

Case study? Grow up. You come here to think your this higher power telling us all what to think and believe after you have been a comic fan for like a week.

The New 52 (yes it was popular) absolutely sucked and pissed a ton of people off.

In like 10-20 years when you can actually call yourself a fan and DC, Marvel, whoever kills off and erases one of your favorite characters maybe then you will understand.

You are wrong on so many levels.

Good day...

Guess you missed these important facts

Wiki
Rebirth
20210824_093625.jpg

Metal
Screenshot_20210824-094022_Chrome.jpg


Death Metal
See issue 1 attached below


Infinite Frontier
Next post

[Menacer]

Infinite Frontier
Screenshot_20210824-103057_Chrome.jpg

[ducklord]

1. I think we ALL need to simmer down a little bit here. We're all fans. It's all good. A little less snark and hostility would probably go a long way, and probably keep the mods from stepping in.

2. As I said before, when it comes to continuity (which I find an endlessly fun topic, but which I know others are less concerned about), I think some of us are talking right past each other. Let's see if we can agree on a few things:

A) A few years ago, the entire DC Metaverse was almost entirely rebooted from the ground up in what we call "The New 52." Although some things from the Pre-Flashpoint continuity bled into this version of the Metaverse (notably most of Batman and Green Lantern), continuity at this point was largely a blank canvas.
B) More recently, starting with the DC Rebirth initiative, and winding forward through Doomsday Clock and the two Metal crossovers, more and more of the pre-Flashpoint continuity has been integrated into the New 52 Universe. Notably, the entire golden age of the DCU has had its history restored, and the Titans, which in the original New 52 telling had been an entirely new group founded by Tim Drake, had much of its previous history restored.
C) As a consequence of the pre-Flashpoint history getting folded in-stride into the New 52 timeline, it's fair to say that the current, mainstream DCU is neither the New 52 NOR the post-Crisis DCU - it's something else. Call it the Infinite Frontier version of the DC Metaverse.
D) (This will be a tricky one) In the Infinite Frontier, some New 52 stories may be retroactively altered the next time they're referenced. Some may even be quietly ignored because they don't fit.
E) (This will be an equally tricky one) In the Infinite Frontier, a great many pre-Flashpoint stories may be retroactively altered the next time they're referenced. Many may even be quietly ignored because they just don't fit.
F.1) With regards to Superman - from the Infinite Frontier perspective, there has only ever been one Superman on Earth-0. His adopted parents are alive, he married Lois, and he has a kid. He recently revealed his secret identity to the world.
F.2) Thanks to the events of Dark Metal, Superman is dimly aware that his personal history is the result of the amalgamation of two previous versions of himself (he's also vaguely aware of his pre-Crisis history and his golden age self). But in the Infinite Frontier timeline, the events of this merger never technically happened - the stories of the New 52 Superman (which, as per D) may have unfolded a little differently, or in some cases not at all) happened to the Superman of the Infinite Frontier, NOT a separate "New 52 Superman."
F.3) As per Doomsday Clock, the New 52 Superman continues to have adventures in the New 52 Metaverse.

Are these all agreeable?

[InfamousBG]

1. I think we ALL need to simmer down a little bit here. We're all fans. It's all good. A little less snark and hostility would probably go a long way, and probably keep the mods from stepping in.

2. As I said before, when it comes to continuity (which I find an endlessly fun topic, but which I know others are less concerned about), I think some of us are talking right past each other. Let's see if we can agree on a few things:

A) A few years ago, the entire DC Metaverse was almost entirely rebooted from the ground up in what we call "The New 52." Although some things from the Pre-Flashpoint continuity bled into this version of the Metaverse (notably most of Batman and Green Lantern), continuity at this point was largely a blank canvas.
B) More recently, starting with the DC Rebirth initiative, and winding forward through Doomsday Clock and the two Metal crossovers, more and more of the pre-Flashpoint continuity has been integrated into the New 52 Universe. Notably, the entire golden age of the DCU has had its history restored, and the Titans, which in the original New 52 telling had been an entirely new group founded by Tim Drake, had much of its previous history restored.
C) As a consequence of the pre-Flashpoint history getting folded in-stride into the New 52 timeline, it's fair to say that the current, mainstream DCU is neither the New 52 NOR the post-Crisis DCU - it's something else. Call it the Infinite Frontier version of the DC Metaverse.
D) (This will be a tricky one) In the Infinite Frontier, some New 52 stories may be retroactively altered the next time they're referenced. Some may even be quietly ignored because they don't fit.
E) (This will be an equally tricky one) In the Infinite Frontier, a great many pre-Flashpoint stories may be retroactively altered the next time they're referenced. Many may even be quietly ignored because they just don't fit.
F.1) With regards to Superman - from the Infinite Frontier perspective, there has only ever been one Superman on Earth-0. His adopted parents are alive, he married Lois, and he has a kid. He recently revealed his secret identity to the world.
F.2) Thanks to the events of Dark Metal, Superman is dimly aware that his personal history is the result of the amalgamation of two previous versions of himself (he's also vaguely aware of his pre-Crisis history and his golden age self). But in the Infinite Frontier timeline, the events of this merger never technically happened - the stories of the New 52 Superman (which, as per D) may have unfolded a little differently, or in some cases not at all) happened to the Superman of the Infinite Frontier, NOT a separate "New 52 Superman."
F.3) As per Doomsday Clock, the New 52 Superman continues to have adventures in the New 52 Metaverse.

Are these all agreeable?

I agree with some if not most of this.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Here is what Wiki has to say about the continuity

Attachment 113007

Dude. That's literally what I've been saying all along. The entry says that they "restored the DC Universe to a form much like that prior to the 2011 Flashpoint." That literally, on its face, means that they changed the timeline from the New 52 timeline (which was all about being a clean slate with no prior continuity) and turned it into something else, i.e. something closer to what DC continuity was before 2011. It even literally says "end of the New 52" in there. I mean, that is literally what it says.

They kept some New 52 elements but that doesn't stop it from being something else.

Sorry dude you are not informed.
Here is what wiki says about Metal's connection to new52
.


Attachment 113008

I was talking about Death Metal, which is an entirely different event.

Also, in your post above, you use the same image for Death Metal as you do for Metal. Again, they're two separate stories.

[ducklord]

I agree with some if not most of this.

I'd be interested in finding out which points you'd quibble with, 'cause I think we're all close to saying the same thing.

[iron chimp]

I noticed the same thing on reddit. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the timeline we're using is the New 52 timeline which began in 2011, as there is no event you can point to after flashpoint in which it "reset." It would run counter to everything we've seen in death metal. There have just been adjustments and reshifting to the 2011 timeline, with everything rolling into it and both the old and new being made canon by death metal.

Here is what I believe may explain the difference between those who are accepting of what took place since 2011, which is most, as opposed to the pathological-seeming "revisionist" behavior we've seen from one or two people here:

Newer fans, who are usually on the younger side, very much do not care for linear continuities or timelines, nor do they believe such things need to exist. What they care about is if the story is good. “Canon” is not really a thing anymore as others mentioned, and if it is, DC wants it to be additive, not restrictive. Nothing deleted, nothing discarded. This is a very much a generational difference. The younger crowd’s perspective is sort of “post-modernist” in the sense that truth is malleable and dependent upon perception, time, and context. They just want good reads. DC has caught onto this and is catering to it with Infinite Frontier at least for now.

Its very much the older fans who care obsessively, almost pathologically, about maintaining a single orderly continuity. They really do not like idea of a comic universe composed of independent, self-contained stories that don’t reference one another or do so in what they believe is an inconsistent manner. Actually, they hate that. Some might even be brave enough to own up to this. For them it makes it all feel like it “doesn’t count,” and “what counts” matters greatly to them. For better or worse, canon and continuity are what they eat, drink, sleep, and breathe. You could probably picture several reasons for that: one being these individuals feel that their characters are like lifelong “friends” who they have “gotten to know” and they fear them becoming unrecognizable or unpredictable. Part of it is also a sense of accomplishment of collecting the knowledge of a consistent-seeming universe, one which they feel is made more “tangible” by having a single rigid continuity. This is lock-step with the 1990s mindset, which was a time when people loved to “collect” things like comics, stamps, trading cards. Amassing knowledge of a well-defined “canon” feeds into that part of their souls, and that collection of knowledge is, in their minds, negated by a continuity that is fluid and dynamic instead one that is “set in stone” and exclusionary.

I am quite sure a lot what I am saying is resonating with certain people in this thread as they read this very post. It may even make them feel somewhat uncomfortable.

Meanwhile, we have on the other hand the younger, newer fans. These guys aren’t into collecting much of anything as they derive more value from present experiences instead of collected things or amassed fictional knowledge. This is true of millennials in particular who spend more money on vacations and social experiences than they do on consumer goods (look it up) and that plays right into why Infinite Frontier will appeal to them. Infinite Frontier is about good stories without regard to the canon, and very little emphasis on referencing the past at all.

As to explain the behavior we're seeing before us: the shift toward more isolated stories which may draw upon any history at will, and may not consistently reference one another, threatens the more aged set of fans. Most are actually okay with it though and will adapt well. But a couple have said “they like Infinite Frontier so far” simply because DC has not yet reached the phase in which referencing different pasts has fully played out. Some who struggle to adjust cope using a bit of healthy denial, ignoring the readings that don’t fit their preferred canon (like a couple here are doing with Superman Reborn) or labelling them as a deviation, or whatever fanfic they want to invent. But then you have a scant few whose denial runs really deep who cope by devising a revisionist “headcanon” that we've somehow swapped timelines, accompanied by a total lack of any in-universe or outside universe explanation or event to substantiate it. And some (like a couple in this thread) take it a step further by going around echo chambers repeating their newly constructed "headcanon" which is that the old is actually the only continuity, desperately praying it will “catch on” and somehow become lore to everybody else. It’s all in vain though, and it’s all self-soothing.

that conveniently ignores all the elseworlds, vertigo, and out of continuity books that sold huge amounts pre nu52.

older readers were far more progressive and far more willing to support experimental writing and art than dc readers in post nu52 era.

[Menacer]

Dude. That's literally what I've been saying all along. The entry says that they "restored the DC Universe to a form much like that prior to the 2011 Flashpoint." That literally, on its face, means that they changed the timeline from the New 52 timeline (which was all about being a clean slate with no prior continuity) and turned it into something else, i.e. something closer to what DC continuity was before 2011. It even literally says "end of the New 52" in there. I mean, that is literally what it says.

They kept some New 52 elements but that doesn't stop it from being something else.



I was talking about Death Metal, which is an entirely different event.

Also, in your post above, you use the same image for Death Metal as you do for Metal. Again, they're two separate stories.

Screenshot_20210824-102548_Chrome.jpg

Thats the death metal version

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

that conveniently ignores all the elseworlds, vertigo, and out of continuity books that sold huge amounts pre nu52.

older readers were far more progressive and far more willing to support experimental writing and art than dc readers in post nu52 era.

It also ignored Death Metal, the event that many have pointed to as setting up a new status quo for the DCU timeline. But, no...there was apparently "no event" that could be construed as bringing the New 52 era to an end...

[Menacer]

Dude. That's literally what I've been saying all along. The entry says that they "restored the DC Universe to a form much like that prior to the 2011 Flashpoint." That literally, on its face, means that they changed the timeline from the New 52 timeline (which was all about being a clean slate with no prior continuity) and turned it into something else, i.e. something closer to what DC continuity was before 2011. It even literally says "end of the New 52" in there. I mean, that is literally what it says.

They kept some New 52 elements but that doesn't stop it from being something else.



I was talking about Death Metal, which is an entirely different event.

Also, in your post above, you use the same image for Death Metal as you do for Metal. Again, they're two separate stories.

Your cherry picking what u wanna see.

Yes new52 "ended" but it clearly says that continuity was merged/included into the new state of the universe.

Ie
Preflashpoint + new52 = rebirth

Rebirth(preflashpoint + new52) + Death Metal = Infinite Frontier

If you agree with that then fine. The conversation was confused.

But you cant cherry pick it. Even the Death Metal issue 1 notes I posted mentions the "52" earths down to 8....

New52 is essential to the last 10 years of continuities. 2011 to 2021

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Screenshot_20210824-102548_Chrome.jpg

Thats the death metal version

Uh...the highlighted portion really has no bearing on this debate. If you're making reference to the "52 local universes," you do know that there were 52 parallel universes in the DC multiverse in the Pre-FP timeline long before the New 52, right? There have been at least since the end of Infinite Crisis and 52 back in 2006.

In fact, that's where the New 52 got its name. Because it was a New 52.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Your cherry picking what u wanna see.

Yes new52 "ended" but it clearly says that continuity was merged/included into the new state of the universe.

Ie
Preflashpoint + new52 = rebirth

Rebirth(preflashpoint + new52) + Death Metal = Infinite Frontier

If you agree with that then fine. The conversation was confused.

But you cant cherry pick it. Even the Death Metal issue 1 notes I posted mentions the "52" earths down to 8....

New52 is essential to the last 10 years of continuities. 2011 to 2021

No, I'm not, man. Your argument just isn't as strong as you think it is. In fact, you are providing evidence that more so supports what I'm saying as opposed to actually supporting what you're saying.

And again, I literally was saying that the Rebirth timeline was a combination of Pre-Flashpoint and some New 52 elements. But, again, that would mean that it is no longer the New 52 timeline. Here's a metaphoric example using the same formula you employed:

7+3 = 10; Now...if that's the case, does 10=3? No, obviously it does not because there's all this other stuff that prevents 10 from being 3. So, think of Rebirth as 10; Pre-Flashpoint as 7; and the New 52 as 3.

So, sorry, but the New 52 ended in 2016. The very entry you pulled up to describe Rebirth literally said that they used the "end of the New 52" to initiate the Rebirth timeline.

And again, you do know that there were "52 Earths" in the DC Multiverse BEFORE the New 52, right? Here is the wikipedia entry for the maxiseries 52 that came out in 2006-2007. Here is the relevant part:

Skeets is revealed to be Mister Mind, who has been using Skeets' metallic body as a cocoon to metamorphose into a gigantic, monstrous form that feeds on time itself. Rip Hunter and Booster escape to the end of the Infinite Crisis, where they witness the secret creation of 52 identical parallel universes, which Mister Mind intends to consume. Daniel Carter reappears as the new Supernova and saves Hunter and Booster, restoring the Phantom Zone in the process. Mister Mind alters events in the 52 universes , creating new histories and a new status quo for each.

So, yes, there were 52 Earths before the New 52. That is where the New 52 got its name from. So, just so it's clear, the concept of 52 parallel universes in the DC multiverse actually did not originate during the New 52. That is a concept that predates the New 52 by at least several years...

[leapyear baby]

And look. new 52 Xa-Du appeared again in Wonder Woman today



He was also in Superman last year.







Same exact version that New52 supes fought in Batman/Superman 2012.






Its interesting Diana is using her really old costume. As promised, DC is using every elements from every era. The revisionism in this thread is so odd, lol. You even have one guy trying to argue that death metal set up barriers between timelines when its stated design, purpose. and result was breaking them down. Lol.

[leapyear baby]

Greta was right.. this is Anathema to them: