At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[InfamousBG]

This thread's premise is that the New 52 is much better than it is given credit for.

I do not see how anyone can give the New 52 anymore credit. This thread shows how many people it pissed off.

[Menacer]

I do not see how anyone can give the New 52 anymore credit. This thread shows how many people it pissed off.

This forum is highly biased to 70s era material. Not at all reflective or dc readers at large on that basis alone. How can this forums opinion be trusted when every poll reflects the much older readers preference to their childhood?

You have followed these forum polls yes?

Your living in a very small and biased bubble if you believe the various opinions on this forum are necessarily a reflection of larger younger readers.


I got a huge respect for the very knowledgeable and older reader base. Glad they love their 70s era books.

Multiple occasions asked for recommendations from there era and read them. So I know what it is they are nostalgic for. Its not something modern readers read.

New 52 to started the with flashpoint, new52, rebirth, metal, death metal, and now Infinite Frontier

Mountains of great material in all these periods

[InfamousBG]

This forum is highly biased to 70s era material. Not at all reflective or dc readers at large on that basis alone. How can this forums opinion be trusted when every poll reflects the much older readers preference to their childhood?

You have followed these forum polls yes?

Your living in a very small and biased bubble if you believe the various opinions on this forum are necessarily a reflection of larger younger readers.


I got a huge respect for the very knowledgeable and older reader base. Glad they love their 70s era books.

Multiple occasions asked for recommendations from there era and read them. So I know what it is they are nostalgic for. Its not something modern readers read.

New 52 to started the with flashpoint, new52, rebirth, metal, death metal, and now Infinite Frontier

Mountains of great material in all these periods

I will say this one last time then I am moving on because I and many other keep saying it...the New 52 is dead. It did not work and it was a major let down. You can say success all you want but in the end it was not. If you have read DC comics over the last few years you will understand that they have been trying to clean up the mess that was the New 52. The end.

[InfamousBG]

Moving forward that is what DC fans should want. Not moving backwards. I just dont get that mindset.

[Menacer]

Moving forward that is what DC fans should want. Not moving backwards. I just dont get that mindset.

I doubt very much any fan wants to move backward... but being in denial about the fact that new52 contributed loads of great stories and is partly responsible for the follow up events like Rebirth, metal, death metal or Infinite Frontier era are just in denial. New52 and the follow ups all revitalized the comics industry and brought new readers in. Regardless of what was planned.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Cases can be made for some of those books. Not all but some of them.
Also it was some of the editors who chased more folks off book than Dan, Johns or Lee.

Those three did not put Gail Simone and Ethan Van Sciever on a book both did NOT want to do-Firestorm.
Those three did not chase John Roszum off Static Shock nor insulted MARC BERNARDIN to the point he left comics.

While it is on those three to set the tone of what was cannon and what was a legit starting point-they could not be held accountable for what individual editors did. Unless they told them to do that.

Wally, JSA, killing John Stewart and excluding former Batgirls-okay.
What was done to Static, Jaime and others-no.

Forgive my bluntness, but who the hell is "MARC BERNARDIN"?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This forum is highly biased to 70s era material. Not at all reflective or dc readers at large on that basis alone. How can this forums opinion be trusted when every poll reflects the much older readers preference to their childhood?

You have followed these forum polls yes?

Your living in a very small and biased bubble if you believe the various opinions on this forum are necessarily a reflection of larger younger readers.


I got a huge respect for the very knowledgeable and older reader base. Glad they love their 70s era books.

Multiple occasions asked for recommendations from there era and read them. So I know what it is they are nostalgic for. Its not something modern readers read.

New 52 to started the with flashpoint, new52, rebirth, metal, death metal, and now Infinite Frontier

Mountains of great material in all these periods

Characterizing fans who did not like the New 52 as "biased towards 70s era material" is an...interesting argument. Especially when most of the legacy characters that Pre-Flashpoint fans were clamoring to see back didn't debut or at least didn't truly come into their own until the mid-to-late 90s or early aughts. Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Bart Allen, Conner Kent, etc. were all characters that 90s kids would have grown up with. Wally West, despite being around since the 50s, truly became a fan favorite during his time as the Flash, especially when he was written by Mark Waid.

So, yeah, interesting to say that those fans only wanted a 70's-era status quo.

Actually, if anything, the New 52 is what regressed DC back to a status quo more akin to the 1970s than the status quo that DC had before September 2011. All the heroes being younger and less experienced, Superman no longer married to Lois Lane, most of the heroes' marriages dissolved, most legacy characters erased, many POC and LGBTQ characters erased, etc. And actually, that makes sense, since the New 52 was conceived by people who actively wished that things were more like they were in the Silver Age...

I doubt very much any fan wants to move backward... but being in denial about the fact that new52 contributed loads of great stories and is partly responsible for the follow up events like Rebirth, metal, death metal or Infinite Frontier era are just in denial. New52 and the follow ups all revitalized the comics industry and brought new readers in. Regardless of what was planned.

Nobody is denying that New 52 had some good stories, but it seems that many here are actually in denial that the New 52 was at all derided by fans and critics alike. And, I'm sorry, but it was. For every Scott Snyder Batman or Jeff Lemire Animal Man, there were like 5 books that were awful or at the very least, had no concrete direction: Static, Savage Hawkman, Mr. Terrific, Superman, Stormwatch, etc.

[Jekyll]

This forum is highly biased . How can this forums opinion be trusted when every poll reflects the much older readers preference to their childhood?

Can the parts in bold not be said about any given generation and what they grew up reading? I am heavily biased to the 90s DCU because that is when I grew up reading comics. Wally West and the supporting Flash family, Kyle Green Lantern, Young Justice, Starman, and especially the JSA that began their run later that decade, these are the characters that I gravitate towards and care about.

I am sure there are folks who were getting into comics when the NEW 52 hit shelves and good for them. However, the new 52 has had a lasting negative impact on the characters that I care for and many have never recovered. It's fiction and I'm not going to go apeshit, but I will be highly selective on the titles that I support. I know what I like and I know who I like to read and it sure as hell isn't Batman or any of the 5,000 other Bat related characters. Put a JSA title out and I will happily support it.

[MajorHoy]

Forgive my bluntness, but who the hell is "MARC BERNARDIN"?

Google (and the GDC database) can answer that question for you.

[Menacer]

Characterizing fans who did not like the New 52 as "biased towards 70s era material" is an...interesting argument. Especially when most of the legacy characters that Pre-Flashpoint fans were clamoring to see back didn't debut or at least didn't truly come into their own until the mid-to-late 90s or early aughts. Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Bart Allen, Conner Kent, etc. were all characters that 90s kids would have grown up with. Wally West, despite being around since the 50s, truly became a fan favorite during his time as the Flash, especially when he was written by Mark Waid.

So, yeah, interesting to say that those fans only wanted a 70's-era status quo.

Actually, if anything, the New 52 is what regressed DC back to a status quo more akin to the 1970s than the status quo that DC had before September 2011. All the heroes being younger and less experienced, Superman no longer married to Lois Lane, most of the heroes' marriages dissolved, most legacy characters erased, many POC and LGBTQ characters erased, etc. And actually, that makes sense, since the New 52 was conceived by people who actively wished that things were more like they were in the Silver Age...



Nobody is denying that New 52 had some good stories, but it seems that many here are actually in denial that the New 52 was at all derided by fans and critics alike. And, I'm sorry, but it was. For every Scott Snyder Batman or Jeff Lemire Animal Man, there were like 5 books that were awful or at the very least, had no concrete direction: Static, Savage Hawkman, Mr. Terrific, Superman, Stormwatch, etc.

No. Wasn't saying they only wanted a 70s era status quo.

But there is a case to be made that older generation is usually out of touch to whats actually popular.

Since the forum has very vocal 50ish year old base. And ever best decade poll comes out as 70eras the best.

My point is more people are out of touch. Then that they specifically want xyz.

In fact a number of vocal board members have admitted to not even collecting or reading modern comics

But they sure voice their view as to why they are inferior to past comics.

I frequent goodreads and they have a much larger reader base. New52 books review well generally 60% and up. Finding books in the 70% to 80% isn't hard.

Honesty outside this forum or certian opinion peices new52 isnt hated. Lots of its loved.

Honestly when i was a kid I was just old enough that i missed the pokemon and harry potter craze. Now i never hated those things but it was the kids a grade down or two... the "little kids" things. And that was the attitude of the older kids. Most of us never even gave that stuff a chance cause we weret of that era.

Its like manga now... ive read some. They can be quality books. But its not my thing.

Its a lot of a newer generations thing. Not to say old people cant dig anime. Just that it is largely a younger base of fans.

That was really my only point. Ill never get pokemon.

And the 50 somethings will never get new52

No big deal

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

No. Wasn't saying they only wanted a 70s era status quo.

But there is a case to be made that older generation is usually out of touch to whats actually popular.

Since the forum has very vocal 50ish year old base. And ever best decade poll comes out as 70eras the best.

My point is more people are out of touch. Then that they specifically want xyz.

In fact a number of vocal board members have admitted to not even collecting or reading modern comics

But they sure voice their view as to why they are inferior to past comics.

I frequent goodreads and they have a much larger reader base. New52 books review well generally 60% and up. Finding books in the 70% to 80% isn't hard.

Honesty outside this forum or certian opinion peices new52 isnt hated. Lots of its loved.

Honestly when i was a kid I was just old enough that i missed the pokemon and harry potter craze. Now i never hated those things but it was the kids a grade down or two... the "little kids" things. And that was the attitude of the older kids. Most of us never even gave that stuff a chance cause we weret of that era.

Its like manga now... ive read some. They can be quality books. But its not my thing.

Its a lot of a newer generations thing. Not to say old people cant dig anime. Just that it is largely a younger base of fans.

That was really my only point. Ill never get pokemon.

And the 50 somethings will never get new52

No big deal

But again, your previous post seemed to be insinuating that being opposed to the New 52 is a sign of being out of touch and "older" or that it's a matter of age. Um...that's not the case. There are plenty of people who did not like the New 52 and who were much younger than their 40-50s (even though the 40-50 age range is actually young nowadays).

Heck, given what you say here, I might actually be younger than you are. I really did not like the New 52. And it had nothing to do with my age or my "ideals." It just had to do with the fact that so many of the stories coming out of the New 52 era were just bad. And on top of that, it erased many years of character growth and development that had resulted in a beautifully storied universe.

During the New 52, the lore that defined so much of the DCU was gone and in its place, we got bad, "edgy" stories like Trinity War, Forever Evil, etc. and a bunch of hollow gimmicks that, if anything, tried too hard to appeal to the "youths" and be "hip." I mean, selfie covers? Really? That's because the New 52 was actually conceived and managed by people who themselves were entirely out of touch with what fans (and younger readers) actually wanted.

Nobody asked for Superman to be younger. Nobody asked for his marriage to Lois to be dissolved. Nobody asked for Tim Drake (probably the most popular Robin with young millennials) to be stripped of his Robin status. Nobody asked for the Amazons to be turned into murderers. Nobody asked for armored, weirdly nineties-ish redesigns.

The New 52 was just a series of misfires.

What people wanted were simply good stories that moved the characters forward. And to get that, we needed a change in leadership, not a reboot.

[Robanker]

You both realize the only people still arguing in this thread are people who really enjoyed the New 52 and those who hate it, so you'll never reach a consensus based on the fact that anyone not already entrenched in their own opinion or saw it as a mixed bag has voiced their peace and left the discussion, right?

At most, this has become trying to strawman the other side into bolstering your own, hence the implication that the New 52 can't be liked by old people or that it was a colossal failure (it sold well, as good or better than what came before).


The New 52 was a reboot to get the young people invested by the same people who lost their interest the last time around. That's the key reason it failed. There are others, but the dollar stops here.

It also had its successes. Trying to paint it as only a success or failure is ignoring history to make one's bed more comfortable now that they've made it.

[Menacer]

But again, your previous post seemed to be insinuating that being opposed to the New 52 is a sign of being out of touch and "older" or that it's a matter of age. Um...that's not the case. There are plenty of people who did not like the New 52 and who were much younger than their 40-50s (even though the 40-50 age range is actually young nowadays).

Heck, given what you say here, I might actually be younger than you are. I really did not like the New 52. And it had nothing to do with my age or my "ideals." It just had to do with the fact that so many of the stories coming out of the New 52 era were just bad. And on top of that, it erased many years of character growth and development that had resulted in a beautifully storied universe.

During the New 52, the lore that defined so much of the DCU was gone and in its place, we got bad, "edgy" stories like Trinity War, Forever Evil, etc. and a bunch of hollow gimmicks that, if anything, tried too hard to appeal to the "youths" and be "hip." I mean, selfie covers? Really? That's because the New 52 was actually conceived and managed by people who themselves were entirely out of touch with what fans (and younger readers) actually wanted.

Nobody asked for Superman to be younger. Nobody asked for his marriage to Lois to be dissolved. Nobody asked for Tim Drake (probably the most popular Robin with young millennials) to be stripped of his Robin status. Nobody asked for the Amazons to be turned into murderers. Nobody asked for armored, weirdly nineties-ish redesigns.

The New 52 was just a series of misfires.

What people wanted were simply good stories that moved the characters forward. And to get that, we needed a change in leadership, not a reboot.

Again just cause you hated new52 or I liked it isnt a good gauge.

And finding a gauge can be hard.

Of course young fans may also hate new52. Of course some older dudes may dig pokemon

At this point we'd need to find some way to measure.

But for me Goodreads indicates that even a run like New52 Teen Titans vol # that are said to be worst of the era All seem to have 60, 70 or 75 % scores.

And all have 900 or more ratings, vol 1 has more then 3621 ratings and nearly 75% score.

So if you can find a large data base of scores for lots of dc books, we can look at that...

But sure I see pockets of hate for new52. But vocal descendants isnt an indication of over all fan hate.

Plus it was a major seller in its time. Regardless of the eventual drop.off.

Plus dc has never abondon new52. Animation based on the area and even the flash 2022 based on Flashpoint

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Dude. This is pointless. If you can’t see that the comics and the animation (which literally ended the New 52-inspired DCAMU) have moved on from the New 52 continuity, then you’re just denying reality.

[Sacred Knight]

Moving forward that is what DC fans should want. Not moving backwards. I just dont get that mindset.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the appeal of starting over is to get a new spin on things and witness first hand periods in my favorite characters' lives that I didn't get to experience real time due to well, not being alive. Furthermore, I feel that its entirely possible to move too far forward. I use Superman now as an example. I have no desire to read about an older guy whose moving into a quasi-retirement era while his kid starts taking over more duties. That's moving too far forward, in my eyes.