At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[superduperman]

I get the backlash to New 52 and the desire to undo it, but the attitude at the time really seemed to be that nothing good came out of it in regards to characters like Superman and WW. New 52 Superman had one of the best origins he ever had. Much better than Johns generic amalgamated origin. But because the backlash to New 52 was so strong, nothing from it was allowed to be kept. So we never got to have the kind of discussion we should have about what should be kept and what should be thrown out. Lots of fans loved the T-shirt and jeans Superman. But because Johns wanted his Legion connection or whatever, everything had to go. This probably pisses me off more than anything else about undoing it. The complete disregard for New 52 fans and the idea that maybe not everything was bad. I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the DC offices circa late 2015-early 2016 and find out whose decision was what. To say that Superman Rebirth was hamfisted would be an understatement. First they kill off the New 52 Superman, then they decide he's an amalgamation of both the pre-Flashpoint and New 52 Superman except that he didn't get to keep any of the elements of the New 52. I still think someone handed an order down from on high to bring back the old Superman. Whether it be WB or DC management or whatever.

[Vordan]

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

[godisawesome]

I get the backlash to New 52 and the desire to undo it, but the attitude at the time really seemed to be that nothing good came out of it in regards to characters like Superman and WW. New 52 Superman had one of the best origins he ever had. Much better than Johns generic amalgamated origin. But because the backlash to New 52 was so strong, nothing from it was allowed to be kept. So we never got to have the kind of discussion we should have about what should be kept and what should be thrown out. Lots of fans loved the T-shirt and jeans Superman. But because Johns wanted his Legion connection or whatever, everything had to go. This probably pisses me off more than anything else about undoing it. The complete disregard for New 52 fans and the idea that maybe not everything was bad. I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the DC offices circa late 2015-early 2016 and find out whose decision was what. To say that Superman Rebirth was hamfisted would be an understatement. First they kill off the New 52 Superman, then they decide he's an amalgamation of both the pre-Flashpoint and New 52 Superman except that he didn't get to keep any of the elements of the New 52. I still think someone handed an order down from on high to bring back the old Superman. Whether it be WB or DC management or whatever.

New 52 Superman’s biggest problem was the “present” storytelling, and especially the revolving roster of writers who couldn’t last more than a handful of issues unlike Morrison; no one ever got to “strike while the iron was hot” off of Morrison’s work, and the closest the present storyline had to a long term writer was Scott “Mediocre to bad 90’s throwbacks are my game!” Lobdell; I know Lobdell has his fans, and is capable of decent journeyman work, but in no way should that dude be a lead writer opposite Grant freakin’ Morrison.

Plus, the “present” writers had to dance to DC Editorial’s tunes of trying to start a love triangle with another character no one cared about, a Wonder Woman relationship that was never really more than a marketing stunt, and just the general chaos of everyone trying to “fix” Superman… the same way they had before the New 52, and the same way they would during Rebirth.

Sadly, it was probably Eddie Berganza who screwed up New 52 Superman’s exit/merging with the older Superman, who was ultimately making a return because Beganza had also failed to follow-up Morrison’s run on New 52 Superman. The handling of New 52 Superman was eerily foreshadowed by how they handled New 52 Superboy; sloppy, erratic, and way too causal with dropping everything.

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

I suspect reintegrating Morrison’s Superman origin is likely… but the New 52 devolved into a mess everywhere else so quickly I’ve got no idea what a New 52 fan would see as specific to most of the characters. John’s mostly just continued Aquaman and Green Lantern as though there hadn’t been a real change from his Brightest Day ideas, as did the bulk of Batman books (with most Bat fans young and old hating the few changes there were unless it was Jason’s new book.) Wonder Woman and Flash both collapsed back in on themselves. The Young Justice line died an ignominious death of self destruction. And most of the new books didn’t last long enough to make much of an imprint.

Sadly, I think it’s overall impact is probably similar to Marvel’s Heroes Reborn; an interesting experiment with a tiny number of real bright spots, easily swept away by failures in its long term implementation.

[superduperman]

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

Collars for everyone!

[NathanS]

I mean.... are there enough kids buying comics at the time for those to be their version of the characters in any number large enough that they could 'take over DC'?

[Restingvoice]

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

A lot of things that's popular are still retained. Babs is still Batgirl, Damian is still Robin, Aquaman's feud with Black Manta is still not about Aquababy, Red Hood still had his Outlaws and friendship with Roy, Harley still hasn't return to classic costume or Joker... The popular stuff missing I can think of is SM/WW and Azarello's WW

As long as DC remember they have Earth-52 they can just give it to New 52 fan writers

Demon Knights and Jonah Hex you can just make a new book

Oh and they can kill off Ma and Pa Kent anytime in the present. They're old.

[Jackalope89]

A lot of things that's popular are still retained. Babs is still Batgirl, Damian is still Robin, Aquaman's feud with Black Manta is still not about Aquababy, Red Hood still had his Outlaws and friendship with Roy, Harley still hasn't return to classic costume or Joker... The popular stuff missing I can think of is SM/WW and Azarello's WW

As long as DC remember they have Earth-52 they can just give it to New 52 fan writers

Demon Knights and Jonah Hex you can just make a new book

Oh and they can kill off Ma and Pa Kent anytime in the present. They're old.

Er, replace "popular" with "controversial".

[Zagre]

I get the backlash to New 52 and the desire to undo it, but the attitude at the time really seemed to be that nothing good came out of it in regards to characters like Superman and WW. New 52 Superman had one of the best origins he ever had. Much better than Johns generic amalgamated origin. But because the backlash to New 52 was so strong, nothing from it was allowed to be kept. So we never got to have the kind of discussion we should have about what should be kept and what should be thrown out. Lots of fans loved the T-shirt and jeans Superman. But because Johns wanted his Legion connection or whatever, everything had to go. This probably pisses me off more than anything else about undoing it. The complete disregard for New 52 fans and the idea that maybe not everything was bad. I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the DC offices circa late 2015-early 2016 and find out whose decision was what. To say that Superman Rebirth was hamfisted would be an understatement. First they kill off the New 52 Superman, then they decide he's an amalgamation of both the pre-Flashpoint and New 52 Superman except that he didn't get to keep any of the elements of the New 52. I still think someone handed an order down from on high to bring back the old Superman. Whether it be WB or DC management or whatever.

And they messed up a potentially interesting idea having an older, more-experienced Superman navigating a different universe and having to rebuild some friendships.

[scary harpy]

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

I suspect reintegrating Morrison’s Superman origin is likely… but the New 52 devolved into a mess everywhere else so quickly I’ve got no idea what a New 52 fan would see as specific to most of the characters. John’s mostly just continued Aquaman and Green Lantern as though there hadn’t been a real change from his Brightest Day ideas, as did the bulk of Batman books (with most Bat fans young and old hating the few changes there were unless it was Jason’s new book.) Wonder Woman and Flash both collapsed back in on themselves. The Young Justice line died an ignominious death of self destruction. And most of the new books didn’t last long enough to make much of an imprint.

Sadly, I think it’s overall impact is probably similar to Marvel’s Heroes Reborn; an interesting experiment with a tiny number of real bright spots, easily swept away by failures in its long term implementation.

So, sounds like there was no commitment to the new 52 at DC...(because of you-know-who-Did?).

Sounds like the new 52 needs it's own earth...Earth 52...where a more 'pure' 52 without the baggage of the past could be explored. maybe.

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

Collars for everyone!

well, obviously.

Wonder what’s going to happen when the kids who grew up on New 52 take over DC?

A lot of things that's popular are still retained. Babs is still Batgirl, Damian is still Robin, Aquaman's feud with Black Manta is still not about Aquababy, Red Hood still had his Outlaws and friendship with Roy, Harley still hasn't return to classic costume or Joker... The popular stuff missing I can think of is SM/WW and Azarello's WW

As long as DC remember they have Earth-52 they can just give it to New 52 fan writers

Demon Knights and Jonah Hex you can just make a new book

Oh and they can kill off Ma and Pa Kent anytime in the present. They're old.

Er, replace "popular" with "controversial".

Controversy is in the eye of the beholder. Some liked it, some did not.

We won't know what new52 could have been...if it had been done correctly. (To really reboot, the past needs to be given 'the boot'.)

[godisawesome]

I think giving the boot to stuff that was undoubtedly "not broken" was the mistake that doomed *some* parts of the New 52, even though it freed up others - the Batman books would have gained nothing from cancelling half their stuff, nor would the Green Lantern books.

And they messed up a potentially interesting idea having an older, more-experienced Superman navigating a different universe and having to rebuild some friendships.

Again, Berganza is probably to blame for that. And his reign started before the New 52 and continued a bit past.

[NathanS]

Controversy is in the eye of the beholder. Some liked it, some did not.

Yes, that is the definition of controversy.

[scary harpy]

I think giving the boot to stuff that was undoubtedly "not broken" was the mistake that doomed *some* parts of the New 52, even though it freed up others - the Batman books would have gained nothing from cancelling half their stuff, nor would the Green Lantern books.

If you keep the 'old', then it is not 'new'.

If it is not 'new', then the point of a reboot/refresh is...what?

To show that everything old is old again?

Yes, that is the definition of controversy.

Almost.

[Restingvoice]

We won't know what new52 could have been...if it had been done correctly. (To really reboot, the past needs to be given 'the boot'.)

Some of the New 52 stories read like they took place in the past

The Villain's Journey had the Justice League not knowing each other's identity except for Superman and Batman. It reads like a Year Two, or even, immediately after Origin
Kara can land on earth anytime
Barry just met Grodd for the first time
JLD was just created
Teen Titans was just formed
Gail Simone wrote Batgirl as if she's in Year One (adjusted to five years later once they decided on that, but that was the plan)
and the Batfam had completely new past like Zero Year, Tim's parents in witness protection, Cass Cain trained by Mother, and so on.
So a lot of them will have the same stories, just set in the past instead of 5 years later

[Coco Loco]

Some of the New 52 stories read like they took place in the past

The Villain's Journey had the Justice League not knowing each other's identity except for Superman and Batman. It reads like a Year Two, or even, immediately after Origin
Kara can land on earth anytime
Barry just met Grodd for the first time
JLD was just created
Teen Titans was just formed
Gail Simone wrote Batgirl as if she's in Year One (adjusted to five years later once they decided on that, but that was the plan)
and the Batfam had completely new past like Zero Year, Tim's parents in witness protection, Cass Cain trained by Mother, and so on.
So a lot of them will have the same stories, just set in the past instead of 5 years later

I agree, and that’s where a lot of them reside in my head canon. The Lemire/ Sorrentino Green Arrow in particular “fits” that way in my head. Flash is a very good example too.

[krazijoe]

I was ok with New 52, didn't like GL's backstory being pretty much the same as I left comics during Blackest night and came back and everything had changed, except Blackest Night was still canon. HATED that...