At this point, "New 52" isn't that bad at all.

[Alpha]

Were Azarello's Amazons sexist warmongers of the worst caliber ? Yes, they were. They shouldn't be emulated in any way, shape or form by any society worth its salt. But that was the point. The Amazon are isolationist sexists immortal warriors. They are bound to be that way, instead of some strange dream of perfect gentle warrior poetesses with technology tens of thousands more advanced than the rest of the world.

First of all, I don't think the Perez run is for everyone, but there are other awesome runs after it that you should check out. Greg Rucka in the 2000s wrote an action oriented saga with lots of gods meddling. But I'm quite fond of William-Messner Loebs, he made Diana a really fun character.

Anyway, do you have the same opinion about Wakanda that you do about Paradise Island? And are you aware that the amazons pre new 52 are immortal, and thus they don't give birth to boys or girls. They are mostly a group of women warriors, that escaped enslavement and abuse and came to that island long ago and hid from the world so that they could have peace. They sometimes welcome some women to their island, but mostly they are just the same people that arrived there 3000 years ago. They aren't segregationists, they are isolationists. And I agree that part of the WW story should be about her coming to our world and then teaching the amazons to open their hearts to the rest to the good people that lie out there.

But guess what, in the early 2000s Phil Jimenez created a neat status quo for the amazons, where they became a sci fi society on floating islands that served as a cosmic university for the entire universe, and all people were welcome to the island, including men. Too bad you haven't tried to read those stories.

(Greg Rucka then destroyed the island, which is one of the things I'll never forgive him for, even though he wrote good stories.)

[married guy]

The New 52 gets so much shade thrown it's way because it quickly became apparent that DC had no effing idea how anything fit.
It all quickly became a God awful mess, with editor interference either disrupting or ruining a writer's run, characters entire history being wiped with others kept intact, conflicting stories etc.

The only characters to have any long term benefit were: Aquaman and Batman

Characters like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Morrison's Year 1 take on Action Comics all got a short bump, but quietly faded away.

I truly believe if it was given sufficient lead time & planning it could have enjoyed a longer sustained success.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

If men aren't allowed to live and exist as equals on Paradise Island, they are not treated fairly. It isn't as strange as you seem to think for racists or sexists to have a very handful of individuals who are part of the population they hate that they actually treat fairly. It doesn't change their underlying sexism or racism.

A segregationist society like the Amazons should never be presented in a good light, that's as simple as that. And I frankly don't give a **** about poorly drawn and written stories like Perez's run (which I tried to read and found abysmally bad so fast I couldn't force myself to endure it for more than six or so issues - the only book I found as hard as that one to read was All-Star Superman, and considering how atrocious I felt forcing myself to read through this one "must-read" I honestly hadn't the stomach to do that for all of Perez's run).

Pretty much what Psy-Lock said, but again...you're ignoring pretty much the entire context of the Amazons. Again, their post-Crisis origin portrayed them as the reincarnated souls of women who had died at the hands of men. And there's no accounting for taste, but Perez's run is considered a high point in the comics.

And again, it's weird that you are so sure that the pre-New 52 Amazons were portrayed as "perfect" when you haven't read much with them at all. As many posters have already told you, the Amazons were not portrayed as perfect. There were many instances of showing the flaws and divisions in Amazons society. But, again, you've chosen to ignore all of that and keep reiterating talking points that are inaccurate.

Also, Atlantis, while being flawed is still shown to be more advanced than the outside world. So, why do you think it's so bad for the Amazons to be given the same treatment? And I'm wondering: do you think the same way of Wakanda? Wakanda is also isolationist and separates itself from the outside world, but is still portrayed as much more highly advanced than almost any other nation on Earth.

So, are you saying that the most well-known example of an Afro-futuristic society that combats stereotypes of African countries as "backwards" should not exist??

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

So you’d would have Superman kissing Luthor’s @$$?

Uh...did you read DC in the early 2000s?? Superman was actively opposed to Luthor's Presidency back then. But yeah, I'd rather have a Superman who was conflicting about following the will of a Luthor Administration than dudebro Superman any day of the week.

[Rod G]

“Actively opposed?”

Initially.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

“Actively opposed?”

Initially.

Superman was NEVER okay with Luthor being President. He just couldn't do anything about it, cuz again, he was the President. The fact that you are trying to paint it as "Superman kissing Luthor's a$$" is a straight-up fallacy. If you like the New 52, fine, but let's not literally make things up to try and justify your liking it.

If you can't point to anything intrinsically good about the New 52 on its own merits and instead have to try and throw shade at other eras of DC's history, well, that says something doesn't it?

[Rod G]

Clearly the fact that Superman couldn’t do anything about it proves that things were going wrong at that point IMO.

I’ll take Dudebro Supes.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Clearly the fact that Superman couldn’t do anything about it proves that things were going wrong at that point IMO.

I’ll take Dudebro Supes.

So...you would have Superman overthrow a democratically-elected President? Yeah, that's uh, that's not what any version of Superman should be doing.

And actually, that's kind of the whole point of the story: the fact that Superman HATES that Luthor is President but is bound to respect the laws and not, you know, overthrow his Administration simply because he doesn't like him.

[MajorHoy]

Is it even possible to call yourself a DC fan if you don't like anything from DC.

Yes, you can.

You can be a fan of the DC you remember and hope / pray that the current mess changes for the better soon.

. . . Maybe its just cause I've only been collecting since 2016. Im not jade. Or maybe Im just to easily pleased. But I easily enjoy over 90% of what I read... I read daily and even books I dont love I dont feel I'm wasting my time reading...

Well, I've been reading off-and-on for over forty years longer than that, but I admit there was that +/-fifteen year period (1995-2010) where I wasn't regularly buying and reading comic books.

[Rod G]

So...you would have Superman overthrow a democratically-elected President? Yeah, that's uh, that's not what any version of Superman should be doing.

And actually, that's kind of the whole point of the story: the fact that Superman HATES that Luthor is President but is bound to respect the laws and not, you know, overthrow his Administration simply because he doesn't like him.

No, but he should have found a way to expose Luthor before he got elected.

[AJpyro]

The connective tissue to hold the Nu52 just wasn't there and the so called history of it was always in flux.

Was there a Teen Titans before Tim's?
How old ws Bruce compared to the Robins?
Wasn't there supposed to be a five ear difference between JL and the other titles? If so shouldn't the solos show how the Nu52 versions rose and how their history was made before Darkseid showed up?
Why is Wildstorm on Earth ) with the JL? Why not give them their own earth?

Etc. Etc. These kinda things needed to be figured out before FLashpoint.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

No, but he should found a way to expose Luthor before he got elected.

Uh, the public kinda knew the kind of person that Luthor was. It's not like it was that much of a secret. But, Luthor had managed to rehabilitate his image and even present himself as a benevolent figure by "saving" Gotham City in the aftermath of No Man's Land.

But, again, Superman not exposing Lex before he got elected is not really evidence that DC needed to reboot their universe...

[Rod G]

Uh, the public kinda knew the kind of person that Luthor was. It's not like it was that much of a secret. But, Luthor had managed to rehabilitate his image and even present himself as a benevolent figure by "saving" Gotham City in the aftermath of No Man's Land.

But, again, Superman not exposing Lex before he got elected is not really evidence that DC needed to reboot their universe...

The public, with few exceptions, forgot what kind of man he was, thus a snowball effect was beginning, culminating into the disaster the DCU was in prior to Flashpoint.

[Nite-Wing]

You can't deny it
compared to the new 52 there is a huge lack of diversity line wide
You are either under the batman, superman, or justice league umbrella outside of that and you are screwed

Some fans only want small measures that cater to them and don't really see the bigger picture but I guess canon and continuity being fixed but having to see DC's entire publication line become 70% Batman and Superman tertiary books is a welcome compromise

[Rod G]

You can't deny it
compared to the new 52 there is a huge lack of diversity line wide
You are either under the batman, superman, or justice league umbrella outside of that and you are screwed

Some fans only want small measures that cater to them and don't really see the bigger picture but I guess canon and continuity being fixed but having to see DC's entire publication line become 70% Batman and Superman tertiary books is a welcome compromise

Yes.

There is that, I suppose.