The Flash is too Fast

[mathew101281]

I don’t think people have any idea how fast the speed of light is. Having the Flash be that fast kind of brakes the character. None of his villains (except for the evil speedsters) should really be able to do anything against him. Speed of Light is so fast the most writers have to forget he’s that fast most of the time in order to make a story interesting.

[Alpha]

Just to set up the discussion, speed of light means 7 trips around the world in one second.

[achilles]

This has not gone unnoticed and unlitigated before.

[Username taken]

The Flash is a broken character. I’m not sure but the term “plot induced stupidity” seem to have originated around The Flash’s fights (don’t quote me on that).

In reality, most of his enemies 1. Will never see him coming 2. Even if they do see him they won’t be fast enough to react him 3. Will probably even give up considering he’d whoop them dozens of times before they could even do any thing.

If the Flash used his powers to even a fraction of its realistic potential, he’d only have a handful enemies like the Reverse-Flash and the other speedsters that he sometimes tussles with.

I’m one of the few that actually enjoyed Wally’s initial stint as the Flash when he was depowered. He could past the speed of the sound but not the “fastest thing in the universe” thing that Wally West now is.

[Robanker]

Every Flash story is about him going a little faster than he ever has before. Kneecap him now and you're just hitting snooze on a larger problem.

Besides, power creep is a thing. You slow Flash down and you have to explain why everyone else slowed down to match or else they're the fastest people alive anymore.

Take the Speed Force away, for example, and suddenly Superman is back in the discussion for fastest. No thanks.

[JackDaw]

Take the Speed Force away, for example, and suddenly Superman is back in the discussion for fastest. No thanks.

Why does that bother you?

Flash/ Superman being roughly equal in top speed was the status quo throughout the Silver Age (and through most of Golden Age?)…and a lot more Flash and Superman comics were sold back then!

[Rend20]

He could past the speed of the sound but not the “fastest thing in the universe” thing that Wally West now is.

But is there a real difference?

Even at the speed of sound, all of those problems still exists. Only evil speedsters would be able to seriously challenge him because he'd still be too fast for almost everyone else. It wouldn't make the situation any less realistic in the grand scheme of things because super-speed is inherently a giant advantage either way.

Take the Speed Force away, for example, and suddenly Superman is back in the discussion for fastest. No thanks.

To be fair, I believe that had more to do with slowing Superman down than the Flash being slower back then.

I mean, wasn't Barry speed of light fast during the silver age? I think the Speed Force initially served as a limit by providing potential consequences to going that fast rather improving their speed.

[LordAllMIghty]

I thought Barry was faster than light?

[JackDaw]

I thought Barry was faster than light?

He was….illustrated for example..by way he travelled through time using the cosmic treadmill. Similarly, so was Superman (though probably Superboy more regularly demonstrated this). Not sure about Jay…though I have seen word captions that credit him as faster than light.

Wally as Kid Flash in Silver Age was also I think FTL. It was only later when Wally was slowly ramped up after a period when he’d been significantly depowered that FTL became a target he could only reach via the new concept of the speed force…..there were plenty of FTL feats before Mark Waid invented the concept of speed force.

The speed force is just pure hocus pocus, of course…realistically there’s a number of ways Flash’s top speed could be reduced while still leaving him as DC’s fastest heroic character. The real “sticking point” is that probably most Flash fans don’t want that.

[RobinGA]

It wasn't considered that big a deal in the Silver Age that Superman and Flash were relatively equal in speed.
Its main functioning was teasing between the two.

[Doctor Know]

DC could stand to put a speed limit on the Flash Family. FTL speeds are nothing to joke about and nearly all the Flash's rogues are nerfed because they can't compete or react to his abilities.

It would also avoid complete and total meme panels like this from Superman Grounded by JMS and Chris Roberson.

[SecretWarrior]

Power levels are broken across the DCU, which is why PIS is so prevalent in order to make stories work. The constant one-ups-manship by writers and among fandoms is a runaway train at his point, and the only way to stop is a complete crash across the board. Somehow Marvel has gotten it right in comics and on film, and DC has gotten it right in some adaptations (despite the complaints of some fans), but the comics are a nonsensical mess, which ends up reflecting poorly on the most important part of the stories--who the characters are at their core. The threats on DC Earth have gotten so bad that the entire planet is essentially a DMZ and writers don't know how to keep things outside of Gotham compelling unless the whole planet or entire universe or multiple universes are involved. Marvel's Ultimate line helped to adjust the perspective on the bigger characters in relation to the street-levelers, but DC hasn't had something like that since the time immediately post-crisis. Even if it were fixed, everyone is so focused on their favorite character looking good in comparison to other characters that no one is thinking of the broader ramifications for the storytelling universe. I'd just copy the MCU power-levels.

MCU Thor/Vision/Hulk = Superman/GL with experience/Wonder Woman with weapons/gear

MCU Iron Man/Scarlet Witch = GL without experience/Wonder Woman without weapons/gear

Fox Quicksilver = The Flash with experience

MCU Quicksilver = The Flash without experience

MCU Black Panther = Batman With High-Level Dark Knight Returns Armor

MCU Captain America = Batman with low level, mechanical armor built into his suit

MCU Falcon/Black Widow = Batman with Basic Tech or No Tech

[Slaughter]

I think a problem is also that Flash is often written as "go fast".

Thing is, your average car can go from 0 to 200, but not instantly.

I think a easy way to explain why Flash doesn't demolish slower foes instantly, is to simply account for the fact he would kill them if he went at FTL. So Barry vs Rogues limits himself to "Faster than sound" speeds, while the ludicrous speed gets limited to the big league fights.

Its also worth noting that the more you accelerate, the more work and energy you are using to increase your speed.

Going full Lightspeed should't be something Barry or Wally do casually.

Superman has similar issues, but his power-set is not purely speed.

But honestly, feels like The Flash needs some sort of kryptonite.

[Robanker]

Why does that bother you?

Flash/ Superman being roughly equal in top speed was the status quo throughout the Silver Age (and through most of Golden Age?)…and a lot more Flash and Superman comics were sold back then!

As a Superman fan, I don't see how him invalidating The Flash is a good thing. If Flash isn't the fastest, he's not really The Flash. Let the fast guy be the fastest one.

[JackDaw]

I think a problem is also that Flash is often written as "go fast".

Thing is, your average car can go from 0 to 200, but not instantly.

I think a easy way to explain why Flash doesn't demolish slower foes instantly, is to simply account for the fact he would kill them if he went at FTL. So Barry vs Rogues limits himself to "Faster than sound" speeds, while the ludicrous speed gets limited to the big league fights.

Its also worth noting that the more you accelerate, the more work and energy you are using to increase your speed.

Going full Lightspeed should't be something Barry or Wally do casually.

Superman has similar issues, but his power-set is not purely speed.

But honestly, feels like The Flash needs some sort of kryptonite.

I think “needs some sort of kryptonite” is the heart of the issue….at very least introducing some sensible weakness would widen story possibilities.

(I’ve seen arguments that “he’s human so extremely vulnerable”…but in fights he never gets tired, can let items phase through him, can hit opponents with super speed blows without pulverising his own arm, recovers from poison with super speed, etc, etc. That’s not human!)

The other possibility is to do what was largely responsible for Wally becoming such an endearing character…start with a new main Flash at a much lower power level, and see him (or her) gradually get greater powers.