Why Is Wonder Woman's Mommy Making Another Mommy's Husband ..Happy?

[Mel Dyer]

Well...what will you say, when a young fan asks YOU that question?

Somehow, I don't think Brian Azzarello, Matt Idelson and Cliff Chang really thought that through, when they made Wonder Woman's birth the result of Queen Hippolyta's sexual indiscretions with someone else's husband. Not sure they care, .. and no-ooo, I haven't moved past this.

Deal with it. What will say? Me? Dunno...

[napolid]

Well...what will you say, when a young fan asks YOU that question?

Somehow, I don't think Brian Azzarello, Matt Idelson and Cliff Chang really thought that through, when they made Wonder Woman's birth the result of Queen Hippolyta's sexual indiscretions with someone else's husband. Not sure they care, .. and no-ooo, I haven't moved past this.

Deal with it. What will say? Me? Dunno...

Wow how old are these young fans 5?

[brettc1]

Wow how old are these young fans 5?

Well if you mean my daughter Gwen, she's 6.

[Sacred Knight]

I don't see any reason why to think that he didn't think it through. He doesn't shy away that it was an adulterous liaison. That his conclusion was that this was a worthwhile origin to explore doesn't mean he didn't think it through. I'm sure he knew it would be a matter of great debate.

[brettc1]

It is curious that Odin's own adulterous relationship with Gaea that saw the birth of Thor never seems to be a sticking point [though in the MCU they seem to have dropped that idea].

[Vanguard-01]

Mythology is RIFE with stories about normally intelligent women making unwise sexual decisions around the gods. Ditto for men around goddesses. The divine is VERY attractive and seductive. Even a woman as strong and smart as Hippolyta can have a lapse in judgement.

Once again, I turn to my beloved game Scion to offer a simple explanation. In Scion, you have normal "Attributes" which reflect your raw talent at human endeavors. Attributes like Strength and Stamina reflect the power of your body. On the Social side of things? You have Charisma, Manipulation, and Appearance. Charisma is your natural charm and personal magnetism. People just LIKE you. You're the coolest thing ever. Manipulation is the ability to play on people's emotions and get them to feel what you want them to feel. A general giving a rallying speech to his weary soldiers is using Manipulation. A sexy seducer trying to convince you to go to bed with him is also using Manipulation. Appearance is how physically attractive you are and how skilled you are at using your looks to manipulate others. Your ability to "vamp," if you will.

......And that's just the mundane side of things. Scion is a game about wielding divine powers. Gods, Scions, and other creatures of Legend also gain "Epic Attributes," which enhance the power of the "mundane" Attributes to truly supernatural levels. No, a mere mortal with a lot of Charisma can't run for President and win based solely on his/her personality.....but a God with high EPIC Charisma can. Under normal circumstances, the most beautiful woman with the highest Appearance in the mortal world can't seduce a homosexual man into forgetting his preferences and having sex with her. A goddess with Epic Appearance, however, can.

Zeus is shown in mythology to be a master manipulator. In the myths, he uses his personality to seduce married women (when he doesn't just rape them), to get Hera to stop being mad at him, and to intimidate the other gods into doing what he wants. He has VERY high Epic Social Attributes, in Scion's terms.

Thus? Zeus has an overwhelming personality about him that can cloud the judgement of even a strong and intelligent woman like Hippolyta. This is confirmed in myths, and in Scion it would be easily represented by Zeus's character Attributes. He rolled a KILLER Epic Manipulation roll and got Hippolyta to temporarily abandon her good sense.

Utterly normal men do this same thing to women every single day. Hippolyta being the awesome lady that she is, she would never succumb to those NORMAL men's manipulations. But against one of the greatest supernatural manipulators? Even the mighty Queen of the Amazons can have a moment of bad judgement.

[borntohula]

Well...what will you say, when a young fan asks YOU that question?

Somehow, I don't think Brian Azzarello, Matt Idelson and Cliff Chang really thought that through, when they made Wonder Woman's birth the result of Queen Hippolyta's sexual indiscretions with someone else's husband. Not sure they care, .. and no-ooo, I haven't moved past this.

Deal with it. What will say? Me? Dunno...

While it's not good that Hippolyta sleeps with Zeus I'd foremost explain that Zeus was being unfaithful to his wife Hera.

Also that Hera seems to be more angry with everyone he sleeps with, instead of him. Which isn't right. And that she seems unhappy since she doesn't seem to love him any longer, but feel she must because of some traditional aspects of her being a queen.

Well, if that was really Azz's intention, that Zeus raped her, than he did an awful job showing it, because as someone who's never played Scion in his life it all looked consensual to me.

But seeing as Scion has nothing to do with Wonder Woman and the concept of Epic Attributes were not introduced in the entirety of Wonder Woman's run, and it was never even hinted at that Zeus raped her, I'm just going to think that he seduced her and she fell for him and I think the majority of readers are going to as well, as nobody ever even mentioned rape when it came to those Hippolyta and Zeus.

Anyway, my 10 year old sister reads this story and she never asked me once lol, she was more concerned that she saw the "b-word" in the story, but honestly it's a pretty adult book what with the cannibalism and the blood and the torture, I'm not even sure why I let my baby sister read it lol.

I'd say Hippolyta's talk with Diana makes it quite clear that her and Zeus fell for each other. That their fights became their dance and then passion bloomed. I really don't get why some says it's rape or something, why would it be?

[Vanguard-01]

While it's not good that Hippolyta sleeps with Zeus I'd foremost explain that Zeus was being unfaithful to his wife Hera.

Also that Hera seems to be more angry with everyone he sleeps with, instead of him. Which isn't right. And that she seems unhappy since she doesn't seem to love him any longer, but feel she must because of some traditional aspects of her being a queen.

An interesting thing about Hera is that she is the goddess of Marriage. "Marriage" as defined by the Ancient Greeks, who, like most ancient cultures, defined Marriage as a man owning a woman. Also like most ancient cultures, Greek law didn't punish a married man for sleeping around. There was nothing wrong with that unless a bastard child resulted from the affair. Bastards had no place in society and were a threat to the succession laws of the time. Only a married WOMAN could be punished for adultery, because if she had a bastard, that was a threat to the husband's household.

Thus? Hera punishes the only people in Zeus' affairs that she actually CAN punish. Zeus is, technically, doing nothing wrong by the standards they uphold. The women he sleeps with? Different story. They are either married themselves, and thus threatening their own husband's household. Or they are unmarried and dishonoring whatever male family member currently "owns" them. The kids, of course, are bastards, and there's nothing wrong with Hera punishing them either.

(Please note: I am not in any way espousing these beliefs as my own, I am merely illustrating how Ancient Greek beliefs shaped the perceptions of Hera's vengeance kicks.)

[numberthirty]

Well...what will you say, when a young fan asks YOU that question?

Somehow, I don't think Brian Azzarello, Matt Idelson and Cliff Chang really thought that through, when they made Wonder Woman's birth the result of Queen Hippolyta's sexual indiscretions with someone else's husband. Not sure they care, .. and no-ooo, I haven't moved past this.

Deal with it. What will say? Me? Dunno...

I will ask then if they've seen any decent R rated movies lately.

Who exactly is this kid? Under what circumstances did they get their hands on the current run?

Isn't the kid's parental situation a way bigger deal than that they read a comic where a woman slept with a god that we are pretty sure never actually existed?

[Raiden]

Not really sure why this is a problem? -_-

.
Because it happened in a comic written by Brian azzarello.

[Auguste Dupin]

Well...what will you say, when a young fan asks YOU that question?

Somehow, I don't think Brian Azzarello, Matt Idelson and Cliff Chang really thought that through, when they made Wonder Woman's birth the result of Queen Hippolyta's sexual indiscretions with someone else's husband. Not sure they care, .. and no-ooo, I haven't moved past this.

Deal with it. What will say? Me? Dunno...

The truth.
That sometimes, people who are already married fall in love with other people.
Kids are smart. They can handle stuff.More than we assume they do.

[Flash Gordon]

Well...what will you say, when a young fan asks YOU that question?

Somehow, I don't think Brian Azzarello, Matt Idelson and Cliff Chang really thought that through, when they made Wonder Woman's birth the result of Queen Hippolyta's sexual indiscretions with someone else's husband. Not sure they care, .. and no-ooo, I haven't moved past this.

Deal with it. What will say? Me? Dunno...

This must be strictly a problem for Americans. Anything involving sex is horrible, but Wonder Woman can chop off Medusa's head and that's just Tuesday.

It's a silly question, if a 5 year old is capable of reading a dark book like WONDER WOMAN and understanding it, I would think that they're ready to hear that people cheat.

I was introduced to Greek mythology, and my native Celtic mythology, at a really really young age.

[Auguste Dupin]

This must be strictly a problem for Americans. Anything involving sex is horrible, but Wonder Woman can chop off Medusa's head and that's just Tuesday.

It's a silly question, if a 5 year old is capable of reading a dark book like WONDER WOMAN and understanding it, I would think that they're ready to hear that people cheat.

I was introduced to Greek mythology, and my native Celtic mythology, at a really really young age.

Yeah, that's the funny part. Wonder Woman by Azzarello is violent book where Centaurs come out of the bloody corpse of horses an where a guy gets eaten alive piece by piece for a few issues, but adultery is completely unnacceptable in it, apparently.
I mean, sex. Did any one think about the children?

[BlackFeath]

Oh, I agree that heroes should be closer to "perfect" (whatever that means) than I am. And I don't know about you, but I'm not as close to perfect as Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I think it's inspiring to see someone who was perhaps raised to love only her sisters but who figured out that everyone is her brother and sisters, and who has such a positive influence on those around her, shows mercy and understanding to those who act badly towards her.

I don't think these changes affect Diana in a negative way, too. If something they make her even more special.

Her sisters, without her knowing, and starting from many years before she was born, went on raids and killed men - not her fault and as soon as she was able to she started to try to change them.

She was born because her mother slept with a married man - even this was not in her control and doesn't diminish her character at all. It's not her who is "flawed", even if as she says, she is not perfect (but in a certain way she is more wonderful, because despite knowing she is not perfect, and she won't ever be, she always tries to be better and she inspires the others to do the same =) ).

But I don't think the problem for many fans was this. Wonder Woman is still Wonder Woman being born by clay or daughter of Zeus, that the amazons are good or evil. It's not her origin or her people that define her but what she does.

What this change of the story affected are the amazons and Hippolyta, who have fans too.
Once they were good characters and now they have been changed a lot (even before this run they weren't that 'perfect', though. Amazon Attack ruined them a lot...).

I don't like the fact that the amazons went on raids and killed men and that Hippolyta didn't do anything to change it, too, and of course also that she slept with Zeus, even if those two things, while being both wrong, are not on the same level, and for the latter Hippolyta recognized her fault and asked for forgiveness, which is already something.

Anyway, we don't know what made the amazons hate so much men. Probably the way women were treated at their time, but also something else could have happened to them. Of course these reasons wouldn't justify them, but it would still be better than them having done what they have without any, I think.

[BlackFeath]

But we haven't been shown how Diana came to love everyone. She "just does" which comes across as a bit empty to me. Yes, she has shown mercy, understanding and forgiveness to those who have wronged her but we've also seen instances where this naivety has lead to others backstabbing her which makes her seem like a fool so that isn't very inspiring to me.

It is a risk what she does, and that's why it is even more wonderful and inspiring to me. If there weren't any risks, everyone would have done this, and it would not have been as special and difficult. She knows she risks, and still she continues to do that because it is trusting that she can inspire change. With distrust, instead, it is possible that you will lead people to do something they wouldn't have done if it wasn't for you pushing them way.

Actually her trust is one of the thing I like more about her, and to change even villains into allies I think it is one of her peculiarities. And in fact that's what she did with Hera, the Minotaur, Hades, ecc... She did that also with Strife and maybe it could result in a mistake, or maybe that trust could still affect Strife at the end...we will see.