Circe: Villain or Neutral

[Agent Z]

Inspired by a conversation in another thread, I thought we'd discuss if Circe works best as a villain or a neutral character.

Neutral in this case means that while Circe isn't outright malicious she often serves her own agendas whatever that may be and can be an antagonist or ally depending on the circumstances.

[Gaius]

I prefer her as a villain so I'd vote that but some stuff like Rucka's second run has also made more neutral so I can see it as an either works situation also.

[Nyssane]

Villain. Ares works better as the neutral villain.

[SiegePerilous02]

Mostly villain with some moments of neutrality.

Vampy wicked witches' are fun.

[I'm a Fish]

I'm fine with either.

[Sebastianne]

Villana, which does not mean that she follows her own agenda and has to make alliances and pacts according to her convenience.
She is intelligent, immortal, powerful, deceptive, controlling. I like her connection to Hecate's dark side, but I don't necessarily like Hecate as a villain, but as a threat.

[Vordan]

Villain. She can occasionally help Diana for her own gain but neutral is pushing it too far. I’d say that she’s like Lex in that she’s ultimately about self-preservation above all else, and that can be counted on when all of existence is at risk.

[DochaDocha]

Villain. Ares works better as the neutral villain.

Heh, was about to reply exactly this.

[AlexLyo]

I'm honestly going back and forth on this, and I think its because "Villain" sometimes ends up being an excuse for a character to have really limited motivations, goals or scope for change if we have to keep returning them to "villainy". "Neutral" to me implies more complex motivations, more story potential, more variety of direction.

With Circe I really enjoyed her journey through volume 2 from power hungry hateful witch, to the confusion that the Donna Milton persona created for her, to then how Jimenez picked up some of those threads for melodrama, to ultimately Rucka then being able to bring all those threads together and position her as counter to Diana's interests but motivated by something more complex (her love for Lyta).

I don't ultimately care which label is attached provided that kind of trajectory and back and forth is possible. And for Diana, the glimmers of hope (even if ultimately not being realised), that her antagonists show her that they might be redeemed is always going to be good drama.

[Psy-lock]

A goddess is above such labels

[Frontier]

I think at the end of the day she should always be an antagonist out for her own interests who enjoys screwing with Diana, and I don't think we're at a point where Diana could lose one of her biggest female villains (and the comic book world could lose one of the more prominent female villains in the genre).

[Shimbo]

I'm honestly going back and forth on this, and I think its because "Villain" sometimes ends up being an excuse for a character to have really limited motivations, goals or scope for change if we have to keep returning them to "villainy". "Neutral" to me implies more complex motivations, more story potential, more variety of direction.

With Circe I really enjoyed her journey through volume 2 from power hungry hateful witch, to the confusion that the Donna Milton persona created for her, to then how Jimenez picked up some of those threads for melodrama, to ultimately Rucka then being able to bring all those threads together and position her as counter to Diana's interests but motivated by something more complex (her love for Lyta).

I don't ultimately care which label is attached provided that kind of trajectory and back and forth is possible. And for Diana, the glimmers of hope (even if ultimately not being realised), that her antagonists show her that they might be redeemed is always going to be good drama.

A beautiful encapsulation of Circe's weird but awesome journey through post-Crisis!

I'm also mixed but I like her as a villain, but not a one dimensional one. I also enjoy her just fuxxing with Diana for various reasons, but not always in a completely adversarial way. I think a team up between them would be hilarious. She's a great villain in how flexible she can be if used correctly: uber powerful and scheming, maneuvering behind the scenes witch to get what she wants, screwing with mortals because it's fun, making Diana's life miserable because of personal reasons and just because she can, and toxically maternal.

[marhawkman]

A beautiful encapsulation of Circe's weird but awesome journey through post-Crisis!

I'm also mixed but I like her as a villain, but not a one dimensional one. I also enjoy her just fuxxing with Diana for various reasons, but not always in a completely adversarial way. I think a team up between them would be hilarious. She's a great villain in how flexible she can be if used correctly: uber powerful and scheming, maneuvering behind the scenes witch to get what she wants, screwing with mortals because it's fun, making Diana's life miserable because of personal reasons and just because she can, and toxically maternal.

Yeah, My thought was that the simple good or evil thing doesn't fit well because Circe's motives don't fit into the simple sort of context mortals have. She has Circe reasons for doing Circe things.

[John Venus]

Villain but sometimes unlikely ally.

She is bad but that doesn't mean she can't be sympathetic at times either.

[PopQuezy]

Inspired by a conversation in another thread, I thought we'd discuss if Circe works best as a villain or a neutral character.

Neutral in this case means that while Circe isn't outright malicious she often serves her own agendas whatever that may be and can be an antagonist or ally depending on the circumstances.

Personally, I think this is a distinction without a difference. The Justice League Dark saga shows Circe working with Diana and the team to help them defeat Hecate while having her own agenda the entire time. She then positions herself as the main villain of the narrative. To me, that simply showcases Circe's immense intelligence and cunning.

While I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of Circe's Rucka-inspired Dr. Who ( to borrow from Mel Dyer) Circe, I do think Circe's ever-changing looks play into the way Circe can always position herself in a beneficial position. I also think being a woman allows her to play into gender politics in a way that allows people to be more trusting of her seeming "neutrality" or "allyship," which she then leverages to gain something - usually sinister - from any partnership she has with Diana or any hero.

I never want to see Circe be "good" or even "neutral" for the greater good. Even her "neutral" appearances should simply be because she has something nefarious up her sleeves and is just waiting for the most opportune time to strike.

To build on this question - with the seeming Injustice 3 around the corner - would anyone like to see Circe as the Big Bad of that game?