Eternals Final Trailer

[WebLurker]

I liked it a lot. Now, I do agree with the pacing problems… but it’s critical score is utter bullhonkey.

Yeah, it was a lot of exposition, but I agree; it was pretty good.

Or at least it is in a world where Iron Man 3 and The Last Jedi get glowing reviews (seriously, if that shit can fly, than this should be worshipped)… it’s definitely better than most Phase 2 films that were certified fresh, and it’s better than Captain Marvel and I’d argue equal to or better than Black Widow.

Didn't have a problem with Iron Man 3, but I did like this one better. I have to say that I think Last Jedi is a better movie (better pacing, for one, and felt like it went a little deeper into its themes), but we are comparing a movie that was designed to be a (long overdue deconstruction of its mythos) vs. one creating and introducing a new mythos for the "first" time. Different subjects for different story needs.

Along those lines, it's a pretty different movie from Captain Marvel and Black Widow, with the latter being more character pieces. I kinda liked those more, due to the more personal connections we get with the characters (I think Captain Marvel is proving to be one of the most underrated MCU projects to date), but I think Eternals is an epic done right. It has its scope, but never looses sight of the "human" equation (e.g. how we get to know what makes the Eternals tick and how their choices drive the story).

A good description might be to say that it has the same ambitions as a Zack Snyder DCEU film… but much better and far more competent execution.

Funny, I had been thinking about that, given how I'd seen comments online before about whether the Snyderverse movies were "epics" that dealt with mature themes, and the trailers were setting this one up as an epic film, with the scope to match. Think you got it right that this's what the Snyderverse would've looked like it it was actually good. Characters are better written and the themes it has are actually part of the narrative, rather than us just being told what Snyder wanted the movie to be about in exposition.

Hope the movie overcomes it's negative press and the weak box office season to be successful.

[godisawesome]

Yeah, it was a lot of exposition, but I agree; it was pretty good.



Didn't have a problem with Iron Man 3, but I did like this one better. I have to say that I think Last Jedi is a better movie (better pacing, for one, and felt like it went a little deeper into its themes), but we are comparing a movie that was designed to be a (long overdue deconstruction of its mythos) vs. one creating and introducing a new mythos for the "first" time. Different subjects for different story needs.

Along those lines, it's a pretty different movie from Captain Marvel and Black Widow, with the latter being more character pieces. I kinda liked those more, due to the more personal connections we get with the characters (I think Captain Marvel is proving to be one of the most underrated MCU projects to date), but I think Eternals is an epic done right. It has its scope, but never looses sight of the "human" equation (e.g. how we get to know what makes the Eternals tick and how their choices drive the story).



Funny, I had been thinking about that, given how I'd seen comments online before about whether the Snyderverse movies were "epics" that dealt with mature themes, and the trailers were setting this one up as an epic film, with the scope to match. Think you got it right that this's what the Snyderverse would've looked like it it was actually good. Characters are better written and the themes it has are actually part of the narrative, rather than us just being told what Snyder wanted the movie to be about in exposition.

Hope the movie overcomes it's negative press and the weak box office season to be successful.

My thing on the “in comparison to TLJ” comparison is that I think TLJ is actually quite a bit shallower than people pretend it is; at least with Eternals, there’s some genuine depth to the emotional characterizations of more people than just the director’s favorite white dude, some depth to the internal conflicts the characters are supposed to have, and a substance to the moral dilemmas posed to them.

And there’s no bullshit crapping on the non-white-male actors; TLJ needs to be recognized as much more racist and sexist than its predecessors both in Star Wars and now Marvel. You’re not going to see anyone in Eternals cast rightly call out the company for screwing them over for racist reasons like Boyega did with LFL, and there’s 100% less endorsing an abusive relationship or arguing that the Neo-Nazi School Shooter should be seen as a more likely main hero than literally everyone else.

Deconstruction is valuable, but I will take a sincere escapist adventure that actually handles multiple diverse characters without embracing hypocritical elitism, sexism, or racism, and that manages to not call attention to its own sloppy writing by asserting “rules” it then ignores when convenient.

Give me Ikaris with actual depth making a genuinely shocking betrayal and being treated like a genuine antagonist that our main hero isn’t dumb enough to start trusting after the truth is revealed, instead of Rey having to pretend that Kylo Ren was anything other than an obvious monster. Give me the Eternals all contributing to the story in a productive way rather than trashing Finn for being an inconvenient black guy. Give me too long exposition before you give me a shit show like the Space Chase that onyl works by manipulating audience expectations badly.

Eternals has far more competent storytelling and writing, and whatever weakness it may have in editing it offset by how incredibly incompetent TLJ is if you don’t embrace double standards at every turn.

[Anthony W]

Give me Ikaris with actual depth making a genuinely shocking betrayal and being treated like a genuine antagonist.

So that's why the Deviants were so unimpressive in the commercials? Oh, thanks for the spoiler. They wanted an Ikaris heel turn. When you have great villains you use them.

We could have had Priestlord Ghaur

[WebLurker]

My thing on the “in comparison to TLJ” comparison is that I think TLJ is actually quite a bit shallower than people pretend it is; at least with Eternals, there’s some genuine depth to the emotional characterizations of more people than just the director’s favorite white dude, some depth to the internal conflicts the characters are supposed to have, and a substance to the moral dilemmas posed to them.

As I noted, Last Jedi

And there’s no bullshit crapping on the non-white-male actors; TLJ needs to be recognized as much more racist and sexist than its predecessors both in Star Wars and now Marvel. You’re not going to see anyone in Eternals cast rightly call out the company for screwing them over for racist reasons like Boyega did with LFL, and there’s 100% less endorsing an abusive relationship or arguing that the Neo-Nazi School Shooter should be seen as a more likely main hero than literally everyone else.

I'd really like to know if Rian Johnson intended to be racist in the story or not and/or how much of a role he played in the LucasFilm decisions that Boyega has spoken up on.

So far as school shooter Kylo Ren, I honestly found that Rise of Skywalker was where this went off the rails. This might be my subjective take on things, but my takeaway form Last Jedi was that Kylo was beyond redemption, since he didn't want it (part of the deconstruction is that Rey did the same thing Luke did with Vader and it didn't work). I will freely concede that Rey risking it all for Kylo stretched my suspension of disbelief to the literal limit, but I think it just barely scraped by (I'd argue that Rise of Skywalker did more than Last Jedi ever did in terms of trying to say that putting Rey together with her skinhead abuser was cool, to the point that LucasFilm had to retroactively establish in canonical ancillary materials that it wasn't a romantic thing.)

Kylo was literally whitewashed for Rise of Skywalker. That prequel comic about him made for the movie literally claimed that the Knights of Ren, not he, had been the ones to murder the other students (basically, the whole comic's point is "the devil made Kylo do it, so he's totally the victim"). In the movie proper, he's evil until the script says he isn't, so he can get redeemed at the end. That's also the point where Kylo's story really hijacks the narrative. At least with Last Jedi, explaining Kylo's origins works organically with the Rey and Luke subplots and makes for a better villain with motivations beyond "I'm evil." So, yeah, of Rise of Skywalker's many mistakes, trying to force a redemption story for Kylo after the point of the previous two movies was that he would never leave the dark side and utterly botching it by just having it happen with literally no buildup in the movie itself was one of the most damning. The trilogy's story was about a scavenger and a stormtrooper and while Last Jedi may have opened the door to exploring the villain more, it wasn't until movie three that the Powers That Be tried to change the story into "The Tragedy of Kylo Ren," completely botching the trilogy and hamstringing what had been some of the best materials in the series to date.

On top of that, it was Rise of Skywalker where Finn ran out of story arc (so did Poe, but he was kind of a last minute addition to the trilogy after his death was changed) and where Rose was practically erased from the story after being set up as one of the lead characters (Kelly Marie Tran was a great find for the cast and they absolutely wasted her after her introduction; so glad that she got to star in Raya and the Last Dragon, even if it shows how badly she was shafted). Sloppy writing and pandering to the internet bigots (intentionally or otherwise).

(I do have extremely mixed feelings about Rise of Skywalker, given that I did like quite a few stuff in it and J.J. Abrams knows how to film scenes and get good performances out of his actors. I mean, while I never believed Kylo's redemption for a moment, Adam Driver's performance in those scenes was without reproach. I found the very ending to be satisfactory overall and I seem to be one of the few people who liked the final answer to Rey's background and Palpatine coming back one last time. That said, and pardon my French, while it's a much more sloppy story than any of the previous films, shafting Kelly Marie Tran and having Kylo hijack the story pissed me off and are the things that I will never like about the movie. Fair enough if Last Jedi is your least favorite, but I hope I've explained why I think Rise of Skywalker being the movie that ruined stuff the most in a way that's understandable.)

Deconstruction is valuable, but I will take a sincere escapist adventure that actually handles multiple diverse characters without embracing hypocritical elitism, sexism, or racism, and that manages to not call attention to its own sloppy writing by asserting “rules” it then ignores when convenient.

I think it's the intent of the deconstruction that dictates how it plays. Case in point, Zack Snyder's DC movies seem to be more or less intended to deconstruct the superhero genre, but he has nothing to say, which is the point of a deconstruction. Last Jedi works as a deconstruction, since it ultimately reconstructs everything (albeit pointing the way to something new) and due to the series's mythos having been played straight, been remixed in itself, the subject of meta humor, etc., it was time for the series to evolve. The ending says it all; Rey will become a Jedi, but a new kind by keeping the good things of the past, discarding the bad, and adding new things to improve. If only Rise of Skywalker had been made to fulfill that promise, instead being content to just regurgitate a helping of safe comfort food that, while overall tasty, had little substance.

[QUOTE=godisawesome;5804970]Give me Ikaris with actual depth making a genuinely shocking betrayal and being treated like a genuine antagonist that our main hero isn’t dumb enough to start trusting after the truth is revealed, instead of Rey having to pretend that Kylo Ren was anything other than an obvious monster. Give me the Eternals all contributing to the story in a productive way rather than trashing Finn for being an inconvenient black guy. Give me too long exposition before you give me a shit show like the Space Chase that onyl works by manipulating audience expectations badly.

Honestly, they're such different movies that work well for different reasons that I find it hard to compare. That said, I agree that Ikaris was a more interesting character than Kylo, although I kinda like Adam Driver's performance better.

(Also, was I the only one slightly disappointed that they didn't do more with the Sersi/Ikaris/Dane love triangle? It was kinda built up and could've had some decent story and dramatic twists, but Dane was kind of forgotten in the shuffle, even at points where he would've been logical.)

Eternals has far more competent storytelling and writing, and whatever weakness it may have in editing it offset by how incredibly incompetent TLJ is if you don’t embrace double standards at every turn.

Fair enough if you think so.

[godisawesome]

As I noted, Last Jedi


I'd really like to know if Rian Johnson intended to be racist in the story or not and/or how much of a role he played in the LucasFilm decisions that Boyega has spoken up on.

So far as school shooter Kylo Ren, I honestly found that Rise of Skywalker was where this went off the rails. This might be my subjective take on things, but my takeaway form Last Jedi was that Kylo was beyond redemption, since he didn't want it (part of the deconstruction is that Rey did the same thing Luke did with Vader and it didn't work). I will freely concede that Rey risking it all for Kylo stretched my suspension of disbelief to the literal limit, but I think it just barely scraped by (I'd argue that Rise of Skywalker did more than Last Jedi ever did in terms of trying to say that putting Rey together with her skinhead abuser was cool, to the point that LucasFilm had to retroactively establish in canonical ancillary materials that it wasn't a romantic thing.)

Kylo was literally whitewashed for Rise of Skywalker. That prequel comic about him made for the movie literally claimed that the Knights of Ren, not he, had been the ones to murder the other students (basically, the whole comic's point is "the devil made Kylo do it, so he's totally the victim"). In the movie proper, he's evil until the script says he isn't, so he can get redeemed at the end. That's also the point where Kylo's story really hijacks the narrative. At least with Last Jedi, explaining Kylo's origins works organically with the Rey and Luke subplots and makes for a better villain with motivations beyond "I'm evil." So, yeah, of Rise of Skywalker's many mistakes, trying to force a redemption story for Kylo after the point of the previous two movies was that he would never leave the dark side and utterly botching it by just having it happen with literally no buildup in the movie itself was one of the most damning. The trilogy's story was about a scavenger and a stormtrooper and while Last Jedi may have opened the door to exploring the villain more, it wasn't until movie three that the Powers That Be tried to change the story into "The Tragedy of Kylo Ren," completely botching the trilogy and hamstringing what had been some of the best materials in the series to date.

On top of that, it was Rise of Skywalker where Finn ran out of story arc (so did Poe, but he was kind of a last minute addition to the trilogy after his death was changed) and where Rose was practically erased from the story after being set up as one of the lead characters (Kelly Marie Tran was a great find for the cast and they absolutely wasted her after her introduction; so glad that she got to star in Raya and the Last Dragon, even if it shows how badly she was shafted). Sloppy writing and pandering to the internet bigots (intentionally or otherwise).

(I do have extremely mixed feelings about Rise of Skywalker, given that I did like quite a few stuff in it and J.J. Abrams knows how to film scenes and get good performances out of his actors. I mean, while I never believed Kylo's redemption for a moment, Adam Driver's performance in those scenes was without reproach. I found the very ending to be satisfactory overall and I seem to be one of the few people who liked the final answer to Rey's background and Palpatine coming back one last time. That said, and pardon my French, while it's a much more sloppy story than any of the previous films, shafting Kelly Marie Tran and having Kylo hijack the story pissed me off and are the things that I will never like about the movie. Fair enough if Last Jedi is your least favorite, but I hope I've explained why I think Rise of Skywalker being the movie that ruined stuff the most in a way that's understandable.)



I think it's the intent of the deconstruction that dictates how it plays. Case in point, Zack Snyder's DC movies seem to be more or less intended to deconstruct the superhero genre, but he has nothing to say, which is the point of a deconstruction. Last Jedi works as a deconstruction, since it ultimately reconstructs everything (albeit pointing the way to something new) and due to the series's mythos having been played straight, been remixed in itself, the subject of meta humor, etc., it was time for the series to evolve. The ending says it all; Rey will become a Jedi, but a new kind by keeping the good things of the past, discarding the bad, and adding new things to improve. If only Rise of Skywalker had been made to fulfill that promise, instead being content to just regurgitate a helping of safe comfort food that, while overall tasty, had little substance.

Honestly, they're such different movies that work well for different reasons that I find it hard to compare. That said, I agree that Ikaris was a more interesting character than Kylo, although I kinda like Adam Driver's performance better.

(Also, was I the only one slightly disappointed that they didn't do more with the Sersi/Ikaris/Dane love triangle? It was kinda built up and could've had some decent story and dramatic twists, but Dane was kind of forgotten in the shuffle, even at points where he would've been logical.)



Fair enough if you think so.

I think I’d say this - TLJ is where the problems start 100% if you focus on Rey and Finn, as it only approaches plausible or tolerable if you want to watch it from the Sad!Luke perspective, or from the “Man, Adam Driver’s sad face is so good!” perspective. People who don’t pay attention to Rey or Finn first are going to miss that - Rose, for instance and isn lite of KMT’ genuine skill, is almost “weaponized” by the story against Finn as part of an active effort by either Johnson or LFL to belittle and demote him, while to be blunt Adam Driver ain’t doing shit, because Daisy Ridley is actually carrying the workload for pretending Kylo is complicated. Meanwhile, the Space Chase sit just a mess, simple as that.

TROS is simply the sequel TLJ deserved and asked for, with some desperate attempts to realign it for Rey and for a nine-film story, both of which TLJ had screwed over.

If you care more about the next film for the new characters, than it’s a trash film, regardless of what value you may or may not see in deconstructing how some people see Star Wars and Luke Skywalker (I’d add I see it as a bad deconstruction as well.) Hell, I’d still say more people saw TLJ because TFA was such a good movie than because TLJ was well made or exciting or new.

And in contrast, Eternals can and should work for pretty much every character as a POV character, and most surviving characters leave you a reason to care about seeing them next, and seeing where their overall story goes. You’re not going to be punished for liking one of the new characters like in TLJ, and at no point does a character’s skin color or gender give them a step up over anyone else.

And even the exposition dump is an advantage compared to TLj’ loathing of lore - The Celestials revealing who they are and what they do is 1000% better for storytelling both in this film and in the MCU compared to Snoke dying without explanation when that still is needed to explain why I should think Adam Driver’s pouting should mean anything or why the Skywalkers are so screwed.

And again, Sersi being betrayed by Ikaris makes sense and is dramatically resonant for her and for the audience who acres about all characters - you’re only going to find Kylo turning down Rey interesting if you care more about Kylo than her.

If you’re watching TLJ from a Luke-first POV, I would actually say that TLJ might be better than Eternals (I hate TLJ!Luke, but conceptually, not in execution). But Eternals is better everywhere else.

[Immortal Weapon]

So that's why the Deviants were so unimpressive in the commercials? Oh, thanks for the spoiler. They wanted an Ikaris heel turn. When you have great villains you use them.

We could have had Priestlord Ghaur

The plot of the movie works better not having a villain.

[Anthony W]

The plot of the movie works better not having a villain.

This feels like a wait until it's on D+ movie.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Legendary comic writer Gail Simone is team Eternals.

[Kirby101]

This feels like a wait until it's on D+ movie.

You may, but the visuals were pretty spectacular in the theater.

[Fire Angel]

You may, but the visuals were pretty spectacular in the theater.

Agree that it looked great but in my theater there were somehow these yellow splotches on the screen. Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 8.42.03 PM.jpg

[titanfan]

I think this would have been really good as a Marvel show where they could have really gone epic with the storytelling. I would have easily watched hour-more talky version of Eternals that set up all of the different relationships with each character.

I think the movie format/length made this difficult. And the long run time with a lot of early/middle scene exposition that not everyone cared about could have hurt the movie. There's also probably a more "popcorn-y" 2 hour version of this movie they could have done with the editing if there ignored a few of the minor characters' side stories.

I loved it for it's ambition and it's scope and it's beautiful visuals. The last end fighting sequences were amazing and I even liked the way things resolved between Icarus and Sersi.

Like a lot of the DC movies, It's a better movie than the RT aggregated score. If you read the bad reviews, most of them didn't think it was horrifically bad, just missed the mark on a few things (which I agree with).

[godisawesome]

The plot of the movie works better not having a villain.

Eh, I’d still say Ikaris ends up being a great antagonist, whether one wants him to be a great villain or not.

He’s better than Dreykov and Taskmaster in Black Widow, the Kree in Captain Marvel, Yellowjacket in Ant-Man, Killian in Iron Man 3, Malekith in Thor: The Dark World, and Kaicelius in Dr. Strange. I’d say he’s about as good as Ghost in Ant-Man and the Wasp, and most of the other “pretty good, at least” villains.

Having him spend most of the film seeming to be the loyal Superman-equivalent, and emphasizing how much eh and the rest of the Eternals were close to each other, especially him and Sersi, did a lot to make his betrayal much more powerful, and he was a genuinely formidable opponent int he final act, but still maintaining enough complexity and conflict that his final actions also made perfect sense.

[Midvillian1322]

This feels like a wait until it's on D+ movie.

Seeing it on the big screen is really worth it. It’s a cinematic experience. Just the scenes with a Arishem where the whole theater rumbles anytime you see him gives it a epic vibe. Beautiful action scenes. I have some issues with it but I’d put it’s upper middle tier of the MCU. You do feel the length for sure and that’s the first time I’ve had that issues with a MCU movie. I’d still say watch it once in theaters. But that’s just me

[WebLurker]

This feels like a wait until it's on D+ movie.

No, it's one of those big movies where you want the big screen to capture the scope of everything.

[Username taken]

Eh, I’d still say Ikaris ends up being a great antagonist, whether one wants him to be a great villain or not.

He’s better than Dreykov and Taskmaster in Black Widow, the Kree in Captain Marvel, Yellowjacket in Ant-Man, Killian in Iron Man 3, Malekith in Thor: The Dark World, and Kaicelius in Dr. Strange. I’d say he’s about as good as Ghost in Ant-Man and the Wasp, and most of the other “pretty good, at least” villains.

Having him spend most of the film seeming to be the loyal Superman-equivalent, and emphasizing how much eh and the rest of the Eternals were close to each other, especially him and Sersi, did a lot to make his betrayal much more powerful, and he was a genuinely formidable opponent int he final act, but still maintaining enough complexity and conflict that his final actions also made perfect sense.

Agreed.

I kind of left the theatre being more Team Ikaris than Team Sersi to be honest.