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  1. #46
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I think it’s more that they’ve just gotten rid of Zuras for the movie. If I’m not mistaken Ajak was the one that could talk to the Celestials in the comics, so (at least for this plot) instead of having a whole new character just to gather the Eternals, they’ve just removed him from the production line completely. Basically I think they’ve cut out the middle man
    I guess I get that, it just feels weird to completely leave out a central Eternals character and one who could play an interesting role, but I guess we'll see.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    I finally got around to watching this trailer.

    It's about time they gave me a reason(s) to care about this movie. Bigger picture is finally at play and now, NOW it looks interesting and important to the MCU mythos.
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  3. #48
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Suicide Squad was a huge game changer? How so it wasn't a bad move but it also didn't bring anything new to CBM it was just guns same old stick and to be honest it's gotten kinda old for me
    It was a superhero movie that was all unapologetically James Gunn's vision on the screen. We have seen Marvel interfere with Edgar Wright's Ant-Man or Jon Favreau's Iron Man 2, etc. And it was bold enough to go with that R rating (like Deadpool or Logan, also fantastic films.) Disney Marvel tends to play it too safe, everything is calculated to get the most butts in the theater, there's rarely any risk involved.

    I'm a Marvel guy, not a DC fan. I WANT them to be the best, but they have a formula (particular with the "origin" film in a series) that is wearing thin on me. (I did really like Infinity War, Endgame, Civil War and Spider-man: Far From Home.)

    Sometimes it feels like people are watching these films less for the film itself, and more for the easter eggs and post credit scene that teases the NEXT big thing.
    Last edited by Vegeta; 08-20-2021 at 10:49 AM.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    It was a superhero movie that was all unapologetically James Gunn's vision on the screen. We have seen Marvel interfere with Edgar Wright's Ant-Man or Jon Favreau's Iron Man 2, etc. And it was bold enough to go with that R rating (like Deadpool or Logan, also fantastic films.) Disney Marvel tends to play it too safe, everything is calculated to get the most butts in the theater, there's rarely any risk involved.

    I'm a Marvel guy, not a DC fan. I WANT them to be the best, but they have a formula (particular with the "origin" film in a series) that is wearing thin on me. (I did really like Infinity War, Endgame, Civil War and Spider-man: Far From Home.)

    Sometimes it feels like people are watching these films less for the film itself, and more for the easter eggs and post credit scene that teases the NEXT big thing.
    I don’t think a lack of r rating made Gunn’s GotG movies any less Gunn’s vision though? Particularly volume 2? On top of that, Waititi’s Ragnarok, Coogler’s Black Panther. From everything Chloe Zhao and Nia DaCosta have said, their movies ARE their vision. I don’t think an r rating really changes the quality of it. I loved The Suicide Squad so much, but, personally, I don’t think it qualifies as a game changer for the genre, it just expanded upon what was set out by the first Deadpool movie. TSS wasn’t exactly complex in its plot, and is really quite similar to the GotG movies, and that’s not a bad thing.

  5. #50
    Mighty Member Psyknight's Avatar
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    Love it! Both of the trailers have been great.

  6. #51
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I don’t think a lack of r rating made Gunn’s GotG movies any less Gunn’s vision though? Particularly volume 2? On top of that, Waititi’s Ragnarok, Coogler’s Black Panther. From everything Chloe Zhao and Nia DaCosta have said, their movies ARE their vision. I don’t think an r rating really changes the quality of it. I loved The Suicide Squad so much, but, personally, I don’t think it qualifies as a game changer for the genre, it just expanded upon what was set out by the first Deadpool movie. TSS wasn’t exactly complex in its plot, and is really quite similar to the GotG movies, and that’s not a bad thing.
    I didn't say it was a game changer for the genre, I said it was a game changer for me. It hit all the right buttons, even though it was a DC film with a group of characters I knew nothing about. (I was familiar with the GotG cast from "Annihilation" and other sources and I did like those films and Black Panther, even though BP is another "hero fights guy with exact same powers" bit that Marvel over uses in it's origin films.)
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I don’t think a lack of r rating made Gunn’s GotG movies any less Gunn’s vision though? Particularly volume 2? On top of that, Waititi’s Ragnarok, Coogler’s Black Panther. From everything Chloe Zhao and Nia DaCosta have said, their movies ARE their vision. I don’t think an r rating really changes the quality of it. I loved The Suicide Squad so much, but, personally, I don’t think it qualifies as a game changer for the genre, it just expanded upon what was set out by the first Deadpool movie. TSS wasn’t exactly complex in its plot, and is really quite similar to the GotG movies, and that’s not a bad thing.

    While we don't need to beat another horse on this issue, I feel it is best to still look the final outcome of the film. Black Panther, Thor Ragnaork did not really move away from the MCU formula we know. I don't see Chloe's Eternals moving away either. Also that kid character in the trailer is going to matter, I have no doubt this will be one of the most safe and kid friendly MCU movies done to date. There is just no way Disney is going to risk any challenging and provoking story lines when there is a Kid as part of the main character.

    Gunn seems very happy in recent weeks talking about how much he enjoyed SS2 and how creative he got, he even said in his own words, it is the most he has gotten so far in a film. I don't see Eternals ending with that , even this trailer so far so good, has the MCU signature jokes that is more Marvel and not Zhao.

    I will still see Eternals and will follow the film's journey but like the recent what if show going on, I know the expectations. I never expected to be X-MEN TAS and I am getting just that.

    Also have you see Dune trailers? speaking of cinematography.




    You and I had this long discussion about the cinematography in the first Eternal trailer, but watch the Dune trailers. Eternals is like 2 step away from getting that kind of amazing Cinematography of Dune and this is why I said that the movie creative freedom seem split here between Zhao and The Feige signature MCU style.

    Ironically I also hear, both movies come out one week apart and they are each other competitor around that film calendar slate, it will be interesting to see many film fans talk about both films and compare them artistically because we all know it will happen.
    Last edited by Castle; 08-20-2021 at 11:58 AM.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    I didn't say it was a game changer for the genre, I said it was a game changer for me. It hit all the right buttons, even though it was a DC film with a group of characters I knew nothing about. (I was familiar with the GotG cast from "Annihilation" and other sources and I did like those films and Black Panther, even though BP is another "hero fights guy with exact same powers" bit that Marvel over uses in it's origin films.)
    Fair enough!

  9. #54
    Incredible Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    While we don't need to beat another horse on this issue, I feel it is best to still look the final outcome of the film. Black Panther, Thor Ragnaork did not really move away from the MCU formula we know. I don't see Chloe's Eternals moving away either. Also that kid character in the trailer is going to matter, I have no doubt this will be one of the most safe and kid friendly MCU movies done to date. There is just no way Disney is going to risk any challenging and provoking story lines when there is a Kid as part of the main character.

    Gunn seems very happy in recent weeks talking about how much he enjoyed SS2 and how creative he got, he even said in his own words, it is the most he has gotten so far in a film. I don't see Eternals ending with that , even this trailer so far so good, has the MCU signature jokes that is more Marvel and not Zhao.

    I will still see Eternals and will follow the film's journey but like the recent what if show going on, I know the expectations. I never expected to be X-MEN TAS and I am getting just that.

    Also have you see Dune trailers? speaking of cinematography.




    You and I had this long discussion about the cinematography in the first Eternal trailer, but watch the Dune trailers. Eternals is like 2 step away from getting that kind of amazing Cinematography of Dune and this is why I said that the movie creative freedom seem split here between Zhao and The Feige signature MCU style.

    Ironically I also hear, both movies come out one week apart and they are each other competitor around that film calendar slate, it will be interesting to see many film fans talk about both films and compare them artistically because we all know it will happen.
    Depends what you mean by the formula honestly? BP definitely hits similar beats to other origin stories (not just MCU ones) but that doesn't mean it wasn't a culmination of Coogler's vision or ideas. But I'd argue Ragnarok is fairly different for putting a character into a situation (both stylistically and plot wise) that we haven't seen him in before, and by the end of it there is actual growth, not to mention the destruction of pretty much all we've come to associate him with. Whether you liked it or not, Ragnarok pretty clearly bucks the trend, and it's why (outside of comic fandom) it was considered a breath of fresh air. And, I don't know if you've seen Waititi's other films, but it's very clearly HIS film.

    And i'm sure Gunn will speak the same of GotG 3 when it comes out. He has even said that, although Marvel offers more notes than WB did, he doesn;t have to take them. It should also be noted that Gunn was hired due to his work on GotG. From what I remember, you haven't seen Gunn's other films, but the GotG films are him through and through. He has also said this. Again, Zhao seems pretty confident that Eternals is her vision, so there's no need to disrespect the words that have come from her mouth in regards to it being a great experience that has her stamp fully on it.

    I don't know why you would want "What If?" to be like X:TAS? Completely different programs, with completely different goals.

    I've been following Dune very closely for years (it's my most anticipated film of this year) and I'm a massive fan of Villeneuve, so please don't tell me to go watch the trailers lmao. I think both have great looking cinematography, and both have completely different stories, objectives, and tones. I don't really see the need to compare them, just like we don't need to compare Dune to something like No Time To Die. Both completely different films. You can talk about the "MCU Signature Style", but Zhao, the director, has said other wise and currently there's no reason not to actually believe her. Nomadland had jokes and gags (quite a few actually), and that was her and her collaborators.

    As a "film fan", I don't care about people comparing two movies that are drastically different.

    Feel free to reply, but i'm not going to reply again
    Last edited by Jack The Tripper; 08-20-2021 at 01:00 PM.

  10. #55
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    I finally got around to watching this trailer.

    It's about time they gave me a reason(s) to care about this movie. Bigger picture is finally at play and now, NOW it looks interesting and important to the MCU mythos.
    I kind of hate this about the modern audience and fandom - Marvel films don't just need to be good, they have to be "important", they have to contribute or connect or depend on the "mythos" aka it needs to show how it all connects and builds the cinematic universe. If it doesn't do that? Who cares about it then, fuck it to hell and back. I just don't get the mind set. It shouldn't matter if we see how it ties into the other 20+ films, we should want to watch it because it looks good or interesting to us.

  11. #56
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Sometimes it feels like people are watching these films less for the film itself, and more for the easter eggs and post credit scene that teases the NEXT big thing.
    This. I love the MCU, but sometimes it feels like the shared universe has caused more harm than good. People seemed trained now to focus on the wrong things.

  12. #57
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    Is that really true? Most of the time I hear complaints about "oh it's too tied into everything, stand on its own" even if it's just a 5-second cameo or something

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    This. I love the MCU, but sometimes it feels like the shared universe has caused more harm than good. People seemed trained now to focus on the wrong things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I kind of hate this about the modern audience and fandom - Marvel films don't just need to be good, they have to be "important", they have to contribute or connect or depend on the "mythos" aka it needs to show how it all connects and builds the cinematic universe. If it doesn't do that? Who cares about it then, fuck it to hell and back. I just don't get the mind set. It shouldn't matter if we see how it ties into the other 20+ films, we should want to watch it because it looks good or interesting to us.
    I see it in two ways.

    1. The fan meets artistic POV

    2, Disney needs to make money POV

    With the fan and artistic side and that will include the comics, marvel never signed on big on the connected angle even if marvel comics is a shared universe.

    Part of the reason the jokes about the next avengers leader of Vibranium jokes are just always going to fall flat, because it comes off as trying too hard.

    We have to also realise that Eternals are not even D listers like Iron Man or Thor were. Eternals are Z listers. they will need the connected shared universe, for Disney to ensure there is no loss in money. Can we really blame disney for wanting to make money in the end?

    If you at a point in time, got into marvel and were big readers or watchers of any Spiderman, X-MEN or even Hulk and the Fantastic 4 Movies/TV Shows. Highly unlikely that connected shared universe was an important part of the equation of why you cared.
    Last edited by Castle; 08-20-2021 at 03:10 PM.

  14. #59
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Is that really true? Most of the time I hear complaints about "oh it's too tied into everything, stand on its own" even if it's just a 5-second cameo or something
    Of course - people usually like to complain more here than give praise, so you're more likely to hear people here complaining about it than talking favorably about it, especially for a decade's old franchise at this point. Plus you're hearing the complaints from the same small group of people here like myself. Doesn't mean we complainers aren't in the minority. Most of the MCU audience actually needs to see those connections now to get excited about it though.

  15. #60
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I see it in two ways.

    1. The fan meets artistic POV

    2, Disney needs to make money POV

    With the fan and artistic side and that will include the comics, marvel never signed on big on the connected angle even if marvel comics is a shared universe.

    Part of the reason the jokes about the next avengers leader of Vibranium jokes are just always going to fall flat, because it comes off as trying too hard.

    We have to also realise that Eternals are not even D listers like Iron Man or Thor were. Eternals are Z listers. they will need the connected shared universe, for Disney to ensure there is no loss in money. Can we really blame disney for wanting to make money in the end?

    If you at a point in time, got into marvel and were big readers or watchers of any Spiderman, X-MEN or even Hulk and the Fantastic 4 Movies/TV Shows. Highly unlikely that connected shared universe was an important part of the equation.
    Maybe that was true at one point, but the MCU is the brand now. Doesn't matter if Eternals are Z listers, the MCU is at the point where they can make original superheroes not from the comics and it'd sell. But yeah, part of that is because of the connected shared universe.

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