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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    You're being exceptionally literal. Clark also doesn't speak with a Scottish accent and has black hair. If you're going to be pedantic, be pedantic both ways.

    Thor, Cap (both Marvel and America) and Shazam are all Superman analgoues after a fashion. They just reference different qualities. Thor/Carol are "the big guy/gal" with the general flying brick powersets and some degree of energy attack. Captain America is the moral leader and progressive symbol of what's excellent about the American spirit, even when they're frustrated with their birth/adopted country. Shazam is simply Superman if piloted by a kid and without the sensory powers.

    Vision may as well have all his powers save freeze breath. His hot laser just comes out of his forehead, not his eyes.

    They're analogues, not equivalents.
    Again, you can deepfake Superman onto Ikaris and not the others

  2. #17
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    I wonder whether they chose Richard Madden as Ikaris exactly because he looks like a live-action Superman, just to get a more familiar visual reference or who knows why. He actually looks like Superman more than comic book Ikaris.
    That said, I think that the trailer is surprisingly underwhelming.
    Last edited by Myskin; 08-20-2021 at 12:28 AM.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    It's pretty clear what's meant by analogue vs people like him in terms of personality.

    Someone can deepfake one of the Clark Kent actors onto Richard Madden, and you have Superman action sequences. You can't do that with any other Marvel character.

    So Carol doesn't count as a Superman analogue because she lack's heat vision but Mr Incredible qualifies despite lacking the majority of Superman's powers?


    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Again, you can deepfake Superman onto Ikaris and not the others
    I could deepfake Wonder Woman onto Lois Lane or Huntress. Does that make them Wonder Woman analogues?

    Deepfaking doesn't mean two characters are analogous.

    Also, there's a little factor regarding Icon and Blue Marvel that makes "deepfaking" Superman onto them very much impossible to pull off without it being very obvious.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-20-2021 at 02:58 AM.

  4. #19
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I am batman?
    Anyways, hopefully it's Good.Thor didn't get good for me.Cap i liked.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So Carol doesn't count as a Superman analogue because she lack's heat vision but Mr Incredible qualifies despite lacking the majority of Superman's powers?




    I could deepfake Wonder Woman onto Lois Lane or Huntress. Does that make them Wonder Woman analogues?

    Deepfaking doesn't mean two characters are analogous.

    Also, there's a little factor regarding Icon and Blue Marvel that makes "deepfaking" Superman onto them very much impossible to pull off without it being very obvious.
    The image isn't perfect-- It just popped up on Google. Mr. Incredible does not qualify.

    You can't deepfake Wonder Woman onto those characters to create Wonder Woman action scenes. It's just Gal Gadot as Lois Lane. However, you could deepfake Wonder Woman's face onto an actual analogue, like MCU Valkyrie or Sif.

    You can deepfake a Clark Kent actor onto Ikaris and nothing would have to change. If you did the same and deepfaked Clark onto Thor or Vision, then you have to explain how he got thunder powers, why he uses a hammer, why he shoots beams from his forehead instead of his eyes, why he phases, etc.

  6. #21
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    If I remember correctly, I think other Eternals (besides Ikaris) have laser eyes.

    At least back in the day.
    Yes, several Eternals can expel energy optically. But as with other Eternal skills, energy projection is a discipline that has to be learned. Not all Eternals have the same mastery or even the same aptitude. At least I think that's the distinction that Kirby originally intended to diversify the group. It's why not everyone will reach Sersi's level when it comes to molecular manipulation, Thanos or Gilgamesh level strength, or Makkari's level in terms of speed.

    Speaking of Makkari, if memory serves, at one point he brushed off all of the other Eternal disciplines in favor of developing his physical speed. He might be one of the few Eternals that can't project energy from his eyes. But then again, Marvel writers aren't known for keeping characters within clearly defined power parameters. I'm willing to bet they reversed course on Makkari's "pure speed only" limitation.

  7. #22

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    Even with the major key differences, I still see Cap as Superman's counterpart.
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Again, you can deepfake Superman onto Ikaris and not the others
    i feel like if you posted this somewhere else on the internet someone might take this as a challenge to deepfake Henry Cavill's face onto Brie Larson or something.

  8. #23
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    The Heat Vision is so specific to Superman that a character with that power will seem more an analogue than others.

    Jack Kirby took the mythical Thor and recreated him wearing a blue costume and a red cape and flying through the air minus a chariot specifically to make him the Marvel equivalent of Superman.

    Movie Captain Marvel was meant to represent a new power level and be a Superman analogue regardless of sex.

    But the Eternals may get into an analogue most people see readily as an obvious Superman analogue.
    Power with Girl is better.

  9. #24

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    And here I thought the Enterals were Marvel's versions of various ancient myths from around the world (mostly Greek but with a few others mixed in for variety) not Superman.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    And here I thought the Enterals were Marvel's versions of various ancient myths from around the world (mostly Greek but with a few others mixed in for variety) not Superman.
    I suspect that a flying super strong guy with heat vision makes one question if they are sticking 100% to that premise.
    Power with Girl is better.

  11. #26
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    And here I thought the Enterals were Marvel's versions of various ancient myths from around the world (mostly Greek but with a few others mixed in for variety) not Superman.
    I read somewhere that Kirby was heavily influenced by Chariots of the Gods? and the hypothesis that ancient extraterrestrials are to credit for all of early humanity's technology, philosophies, religions, etc. The finished Eternals product was that those extraterrestrials were the 2,000 foot tall cosmic beings now known as Celestials, but originally Kirby had intended for the Eternals to be the Celestials -- of course, a more human sized version, iirc. (Fun side note: DC's New Gods, including Darkseid and denizens of Apokalips are all said to be far taller in their native realm than they are whenever they cross over into the "main" DC space/time continuum.)

    I thought Marvel's decision to make the Eternals a species of homo sapiens was the right call as far as the source material goes. But the MCU may have realized just how problematic Kirby's origin for the Eternals is and decided to go with the Chariots interpretation.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    The image isn't perfect-- It just popped up on Google. Mr. Incredible does not qualify.
    Yeah, the Incredibles is more like the Fantastic Four. Mr Incredible is super strong, like the Thing, but without the monstrous appearance. Elastigirl has Mr Fantastic's stretchy powers. Violet has Invisible Woman's powers. But Dash is a speedster instead of having fire powers - they had to do something to make it different!
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  13. #28
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    Character-wise, Captain America already embodies everything Superman needs to be. Though to be fair, Ikaris is written after Kirby write Superman. That might influence him a little.

  14. #29
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    I honestly don't quite get the Captain America is a version of Superman thing, given that we're talking about more or less common personality traits that a number of heroes have, including characters from myths and legends that pre-date Superman. I'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but in my mind having similar personalities doesn't necessarily mean that a person is a full blown analogue. There are a few more boxes that need to be checked before that claim can be affirmed. Perhaps someone can explain it to me? I'm willing to be convinced.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I read somewhere that Kirby was heavily influenced by Chariots of the Gods? and the hypothesis that ancient extraterrestrials are to credit for all of early humanity's technology, philosophies, religions, etc. The finished Eternals product was that those extraterrestrials were the 2,000 foot tall cosmic beings now known as Celestials, but originally Kirby had intended for the Eternals to be the Celestials -- of course, a more human sized version, iirc. (Fun side note: DC's New Gods, including Darkseid and denizens of Apokalips are all said to be far taller in their native realm than they are whenever they cross over into the "main" DC space/time continuum.)

    I thought Marvel's decision to make the Eternals a species of homo sapiens was the right call as far as the source material goes. But the MCU may have realized just how problematic Kirby's origin for the Eternals is and decided to go with the Chariots interpretation.
    Exactly this.

    And it must be noted that the Eternals were NOT intended to be a part of the Marvel universe. I'm not sure but I think it was Roy Thomas that dragged them into the Marvel universe.

    Each Eternal was meant to represent a member of mythology primarily the Greek panthenon- Zuras- Zeus, Thena- Athena, Sersi- Circe, Makkari- Mercury e.t.c. That's why there was the weirdness when the met the gods of olympus and looked almost exactly like some of them.

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